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  #1  
Old 11-09-2007, 09:57 AM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Trouble Configuring HVR 1600 Lineups

I am immensely frustrated. At first I could not figure out the channel remapping. I found several threads, followed instructions and got things working. Now here's the problem, it's not working correctly. I don't know if STV (SageTV) is incapable of this, or I just am not setting it up correctly. I have my analog tuner connected via cable and have selected Comcast Extended service. My digital tuner is connected to cable qam and I have selected Dish (as suggested in setup instructions to choose an alternate provider). I have hooked up my digital cable box to the composite input and selected Comcast Digital service.

What I wanted and expected to happen was this:
*Analog Cable 2-72
*Digital Cable 1-899
*Channels 2-72 offset to 1002-1072 for one of the lineups
*Qam remapped to actual digital stations to get guide data

Instead the analog channels disappear and only the cable box is used to tune 2-72. Remapping 2-72 in the digital lineup results in channels 2-72 disappearing from analog lineup and being tuned only via cable box. Qam channels don't all have counterparts to remap to since I'm using Dish, but Comcast is actually providing the signal. I want this to function like my RTV (ReplayTV):
*RTV aks what's connected to coaxial and assigns 2-72 after selecting Comcast Cable
* RTV asks whats on input 1 and after selecting Comcast Digital:
A. selects 1-899
B. offsets coaxial channels to 1002-1072
* If I also had input 2 connected, it would offset that lineup by 2000
* In the channel guide I see both 1-899 and 1002-1072

I want STV to use the analog and qam tuners first before using digital cable, but want all the channels enabled to aid in conflict resolution. So I'll use tonight as an example. I want to record at 21:00 Stargate Atlantis
(SciFi analog or stb), Moonlight (CBS analog, stb or qam) and OLTL Today (stb). STV would record Atlantis from analog tuner, OLTL using stb and ir blaster, Moonlight from qam AND my program guide would show all the channels from all the inputs and mark the shows to be recorded. Is this possible? How do I make this happen?

Last edited by mskitty666; 11-09-2007 at 09:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:05 PM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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OK. What Sage will do is take all the EPG data and combine it into 1 list. Each channel name will be listed once, where in the list will vary. But Sage would have access to it from all sources that have it, even if it doesn't show up in the "proper" channel range.

You can specify a preference of tuner usage using encoder_merit, set it sage.properties. The higher the number, then more the preference to use first. I don't think you can set merit to various inputs on 1 tuner, just between tuners.

Question, why do you have both analog cable and the STB hooked up to the same tuner? You can't record from both at the same time. I'd either only record from the STB without the analog, or else, disable the overlapping channels in the STB. Disable 2-72 in the STB's lineup. It may help clean up your master EPG some.

OK. looking at you last paragraph, it looks like you are trying to record 3 shows from 1 PVR-1600. Cant do that, it is only a dual tuner, 1 analog and 1 digital. YOu can hook multiple analog inputs into it, but the analog tuner can only use 1 analog input at a time.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2007, 03:13 PM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Quote:
Question, why do you have both analog cable and the STB hooked up to the same tuner? You can't record from both at the same time.
DUH I've never owned a tv tuner before and have only had STV for about a month. I've been gradually getting to know the software. Previously I had used basic cable and ota atsc. Next I tried qam, now I'm testing the stb. I will be building my HTPC in the next few weeks and am trying to figure out how everything will work together since I will also be adding an HVR 1800.

If this tuner came with real instructions I wouldn't have gotten confused. I know it's dual tuner, but thought since it also had inputs for STB that I could record that too. The so called instructions don't point out that it's either STB or analog. Well, now I know and knowing is half the battle .
Quote:
OK. looking at you last paragraph, it looks like you are trying to record 3 shows from 1 PVR-1600. Cant do that, it is only a dual tuner, 1 analog and 1 digital. YOu can hook multiple analog inputs into it, but the analog tuner can only use 1 analog input at a time.
Now that you've helped me regain my senses, I do have a question. If I set up an analog cable input AND a digital cable input via composite, then remove the analog channels from the digital lineup, will STV know to use the analog tuner for 2-72 and the STB for 101-899?

Thanks for helping me. I keep learning something new each day. I just figured out that selecting a different lineup for qam is supposed to be from a different zip code
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2007, 03:24 PM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mskitty666 View Post
If this tuner came with real instructions I wouldn't have gotten confused. I know it's dual tuner, but thought since it also had inputs for STB that I could record that too. The so called instructions don't point out that it's either STB or analog. Well, now I know and knowing is half the battle .
yup, the multiple inputs can be a little confusing. The bottom line is that there is 1 analog tuner, and it can record from any one of the analog inputs at a time.

Quote:
Now that you've helped me regain my senses, I do have a question. If I set up an analog cable input AND a digital cable input via composite, then remove the analog channels from the digital lineup, will STV know to use the analog tuner for 2-72 and the STB for 101-899?
Yes it will. Sage knows what channels are available on each lineup (per your enable/disable and remapping settings) and it knows what lineup is available at each input. So it knows what channels are available, and where they can be accessed. My question is, if you only have 1 analog tuner, and have an STB that will do the analog channels, why set up the analog signal as well? Does the straight analog channels look better than the analog channels from the STB? If not, minimize the wiring and config, by eliminating the analog coax, and jsut using the STB for 2-899.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2007, 11:33 PM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Quote:
My question is, if you only have 1 analog tuner, and have an STB that will do the analog channels, why set up the analog signal as well?
During my experience with RTV I learned that relying on an ir blaster does not always work. When it comes to recording my SciFi shows, I can't take the risk. I do have a lot of experimenting to do with the STB. I will have to try all of the codes to evaluate their performance and reliability in changing channels. If I find one that is 100% stable, I might just go with the STB. You also have to remember that my eyes have not yet discovered the wonders of HDTV (unless you consider drooling over them at local electronics stores) . My husband is also deployed right now, so the smaller file size of analog versus digital is desirable for sending him shows. I have experimenting do do with recording qualities as well. So far the smallest HD file size was around 6GB. Too big! That same recording quality gives a file size of just 2GB for analog.

Last edited by mskitty666; 11-09-2007 at 11:35 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:00 AM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Ok, I can understand that if you don't have 100% accurate IR blasting, then having as many channels directly controllable would be preferred. If your STB has a serial or firewire port, you may want to look into serial/firewire tuning instead of IR blasting, serial/firewire is pretty much 100%.

HD recordings off the STB that go through the analog composite port would be reocorded in SD, so you'd still get that ~2gig/hour (depending on quality setting) like you do for the analog coax recordings.
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:06 AM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Quote:
You can specify a preference of tuner usage using encoder_merit, set it sage.properties. The higher the number, then more the preference to use first. I don't think you can set merit to various inputs on 1 tuner, just between tuners.
I'm lost. I shut down STV and the service, opened sage.properties in notepad, but could not find any entry encoder_merit. What am I missing?
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:19 AM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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in sage.properties, scroll down to the mmc/encoders section where you tuners are configed, and you should see a line for each encoder like this, mmc/encoders/12346/encoder_merit=0

That 0 can be changed to a number higher than zero for each encoder, and they will then be preferred from highest to lowest.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:21 AM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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I found the settings. For anyone else who needs this info it's under mmc/encoders/. The other weird thing is the settings for the encoder are listed before the name of the encoder. It's a bit confusing. Then I noticed the different tuners are assigned different numbers and all the settings for each tuner start with that number. Mine looks like this for my analog tuner:
mmc/encoders/1243213672/video_capture_device_name=Hauppauge WinTV 418 Video Capture
All the settings for this tuner start with mmc/encoders/1243213672.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2007, 11:13 AM
AMCooper63 AMCooper63 is offline
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I'm not sure I kept up with all the replies, but I think you've made this way to difficult. I also have the Haupauge 1600. Unfortunately mine is an earlier model that does not get QAM, it only gets ATSC. But back to your problem. Configure the analog tuner with Comcast extended basic and configure the digital tuner with Comcast Digital. That way they have two differnent EPGs sho when you edit one it won't affect the other.
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:05 PM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMCooper63 View Post
I'm not sure I kept up with all the replies, but I think you've made this way to difficult. I also have the Haupauge 1600. Unfortunately mine is an earlier model that does not get QAM, it only gets ATSC. But back to your problem. Configure the analog tuner with Comcast extended basic and configure the digital tuner with Comcast Digital. That way they have two differnent EPGs sho when you edit one it won't affect the other.
I've gotten it figured out mostly. I got confused not knowing that I couldn't use the Svideo and analog tuner at the same time. I now have Comcast extended basic on analog, Comcast digital on Svideo and Comcast extended basic from another city on qam. I am in the process of identifying the qam channels and preparing for remapping.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2007, 02:45 PM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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For the QAM lineup, I'd probably use that second city's Comcast digital lineup instead of the extended basic. The reason being, the majority of your QAM channels will be the digital locals, and they probably won't be in the extended basic lineup.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2007, 02:56 PM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Quote:
For the QAM lineup, I'd probably use that second city's Comcast digital lineup instead of the extended basic.
That is a great idea. I will try that later. I might also have some issues with the remapping, but will try changing to digital lineup first and see if that fixes things. I think I set it up wrong. If I don't figure it out I'll be back here begging for more help. Wish me luck.
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2007, 05:47 AM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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I'm having two problems and hope you can help.
1. How do I completely remove prior lineup configurations? I can remove the video source, but the next time I select the same provider my previous settings reappear. It's very difficult to learn how to tweak STV when I can't start from scratch when I need to.
2. I'm trying to figure out how to set up the qam channels so that they appear seperately in the channel guide. I can only do this for a few channels that my cable company actually lists seperately, but not the others.
Eg. Channel 2 is NBC (channel 3 OTA). There are also NBC broadcasts on 3-1 (HD version) and 3-2 (additional programming). My cable company shows 3-1 as channel 432 (400s are their HD lineups) and 3-2 as channel 237. Once the remapping was complete, I could see in my program guide 2 NBC, 2-1 NBCHD and 2-2 NBCDT. It's exactly how I want all the digital programming to work, but it doesn't. I can map a channel like 100.15 to the proper network (without cable HD programming channel) and remap it to a regualar channel, but only 1 channel shows up where there are two. I tried adjusting the logical channel number so that if 100.15 is the same as channel 40, then the logical number is 1040. Still did not show in the program guide. I was thinking that if I enabled the all channels on the fake lineup I could remap to those channels then change the logical channel numbers. Am I missing something here, or will it just not work the way I want it to?
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2007, 12:12 PM
Conejo Conejo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mskitty666 View Post
1. How do I completely remove prior lineup configurations? I can remove the video source, but the next time I select the same provider my previous settings reappear. It's very difficult to learn how to tweak STV when I can't start from scratch when I need to.
SageTV does it's 'cleanup work' on startup, so you need to remove the source, shut down SageTV (and the SageTV Service, if running) then open up SageTV and continue.

If this doesn't solve your issue then you'd need to delete/rename the Sage.Properties file to effect a clean tuner slate.
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:40 PM
Conejo Conejo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mskitty666 View Post
2. I'm trying to figure out how to set up the qam channels so that they appear seperately in the channel guide. I can only do this for a few channels that my cable company actually lists seperately, but not the others.
Eg. Channel 2 is NBC (channel 3 OTA). There are also NBC broadcasts on 3-1 (HD version) and 3-2 (additional programming). My cable company shows 3-1 as channel 432 (400s are their HD lineups) and 3-2 as channel 237. Once the remapping was complete, I could see in my program guide 2 NBC, 2-1 NBCHD and 2-2 NBCDT. It's exactly how I want all the digital programming to work, but it doesn't. I can map a channel like 100.15 to the proper network (without cable HD programming channel) and remap it to a regualar channel, but only 1 channel shows up where there are two. I tried adjusting the logical channel number so that if 100.15 is the same as channel 40, then the logical number is 1040. Still did not show in the program guide. I was thinking that if I enabled the all channels on the fake lineup I could remap to those channels then change the logical channel numbers. Am I missing something here, or will it just not work the way I want it to?
I think this information has already been given to you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
OK. What Sage will do is take all the EPG data and combine it into 1 list. Each channel name will be listed once, where in the list will vary. But Sage would have access to it from all sources that have it, even if it doesn't show up in the "proper" channel range.
If a station Call Letter ID already exists but is available from two or more sources (Cable Analog, Cable Digital simulcast, OTA, SAT) then ONLY ONE channel is elected to represent that station in the EPG lineup. It's based on the Station Call Letters, not the Logical of Physical Channel No.
As stated previously, SageTV knows where to go to get the show. An analogy would be buying microwave popcorn. The same brand is available from MANY stores. You just buy it from the one most convenient at the time. You list it on you grocery list just once and buy it when you find it.

If you don't think this is the case, could you list the channels you're having issues as it might make better sense.

Station ID, Ch#
(i.e.: KNBC, 2; KNBC-HD, 3.1; KNBCDT2, 3.2)
And note which don't show up in the guide.
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2007, 01:02 PM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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I will try the tip about shutting down sage completely to remove a lineup. That's really helpful.

I can't test this out right now because I am recording soaps and both tuners are busy, but earlier it seemed that when I selected a channel to watch that has both analog and digital tuners assigned, it tuned the digital. I did manage to set the tuner priority and it seems to be working well. I have about 13 recordings scheduled for today and tomorrow and it assigns the analog tuner to the earliest (or guessing highest priority fav) and the digital tuner to any other. I guess I was hoping to find a setting that would allow me to actually view each lineup seperately in the guide. I guess I'll have to get used to this, that's all.

I'm a stickler for things being neat and tidy. Since I can only have one guide, I'm guessing it won't matter if I assign digital channels with corresponding digital and analog channels to the analog channel? I just want things to be as consistent as possible.
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2007, 03:00 PM
Conejo Conejo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mskitty666 View Post
I can't test this out right now because I am recording soaps and both tuners are busy, but earlier it seemed that when I selected a channel to watch that has both analog and digital tuners assigned, it tuned the digital.
If you have an ANALOG SD and a Simulcast Digital SD, then only one channel will appear in the EPG, (they both have the same StationID, are treated the same), even though they are different channels. SageTV picks the most convenient one.

'Analog SD' and 'Digital HD' Channels don't share the same StationID, and show up separately in the EPG, but *MAY* have the same shows playing (matching Program IDs), and this *sometimes* allows SageTV to pick it up as an alternate showing when the primary recording is in conflict.

** You can force favorites to record only from a certain channel or only during a certain time, especially if you prefer High Def or Low Def broadcasts (though this increases the chance/instances of encountering recording conflicts).
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:22 PM
mskitty666 mskitty666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conejo View Post
** You can force favorites to record only from a certain channel or only during a certain time, especially if you prefer High Def or Low Def broadcasts (though this increases the chance/instances of encountering recording conflicts).
I understand that STV will only show a station once and with the tuner priority set, I think I'm ok with how it handles things. I tried setting up a recording to see if I could specify recording from the analog version of a channel or the digital version and could not. It'll just make things harder once I get my HDTV and want to control which shows have HD priority. Thanks for your help.
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2007, 04:00 PM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mskitty666 View Post
I tried setting up a recording to see if I could specify recording from the analog version of a channel or the digital version and could not.
In the settings for the favorite, you should be able to restrict the favorite to only record from the specified channel. The analog channel name would be KABC (for example), and the digital channel would be KABCDT.

And if you are setting up a manual recording, scroll down in the EPG til you find the digital channel you want to record.

YOu did set the 1600 to use the digital lineup and remapped your digital locals to the digital versions of the channel, and not the analog version?
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