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SageTV Github Development Discussion related to SageTV Open Source Development. Use this forum for development topics about the Open Source versions of SageTV, hosted on Github.

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  #1  
Old 05-29-2015, 09:27 AM
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UgaData UgaData is offline
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Sage "proprietary" vs Sage open source

How different will the open source version of SageTV be, compared to the current proprietary version, once all the proprietary stuff is removed?
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  #2  
Old 05-29-2015, 10:18 AM
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Not much, pretty much just won't require a license. And I suppose the Windows versions probably won't come with decoders.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2015, 12:57 PM
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What about EPG?
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  #4  
Old 05-29-2015, 01:46 PM
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No indication that EPG won't be included - but if there isn't, there is an alternative already established to use Schedule Direct, which is a nominal annual fee. Might must need some polishing on the configuration to make it the de facto standard if the google sourced data disappears for some reason (which I don't think it will, at least not initially).
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  #5  
Old 05-29-2015, 05:27 PM
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Jeff's said a couple times (well at least once) he'd give us good warning before the guide data is shut off, and he hasn't warned us yet, so I'm not worrying about it.
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  #6  
Old 05-29-2015, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Jeff's said a couple times (well at least once) he'd give us good warning before the guide data is shut off, and he hasn't warned us yet, so I'm not worrying about it.
If they can tell us that the decoders will not be included I am sure they can let us know now if the EPG will be excluded. They should know by now ... at least I would think so. Giving us warning when it is going to end is a lot different than whether it will be included with the open source.

Last edited by nyplayer; 05-29-2015 at 08:14 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2015, 04:56 AM
hufnagel hufnagel is offline
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I don't see this as much cause for panty bunching for most/all of us.
The last 'version' put out so far won't expire (assumption?) so the only thing I know I'm personally effected by is the EPG situation. Really that can be solved by me not being lazy and getting the testbed setup with an alternative sourcing of guide data. (you all have testbed machines too, right? )
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2015, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hufnagel View Post
I don't see this as much cause for panty bunching for most/all of us.
The last 'version' put out so far won't expire (assumption?) so the only thing I know I'm personally effected by is the EPG situation. Really that can be solved by me not being lazy and getting the testbed setup with an alternative sourcing of guide data. (you all have testbed machines too, right? )
I have no problem going to a different EPG ... but unlike others here I also support about 10 other households of which people are not as technical so I would like to know. So I can start moving them over etc...


I do not see what the big deal is about letting us know if the EPG data will follow the open source. I am sure they already know.... Just like they knew they were selling SageTV but did not let their users know... until it was sold.

If you ever have been in Computer Support or any kind of support you know what it takes to try to convince a non technical person why something is changing... So any notice ASAP would be appreciated.

Last edited by nyplayer; 05-30-2015 at 06:18 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-30-2015, 06:39 AM
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If you ever have been in Computer Support or any kind of support you know what it takes to try to convince a non technical person why something is changing... So any notice ASAP would be appreciated.
That hits the nightmare on the head.

Yes , I do know the pain of that "deer in the head lights" look from people when told they need to upgrade their "working" ten year old hardware (and software) that is being used everyday.
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  #10  
Old 05-30-2015, 06:56 AM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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That hits the nightmare on the head.

Yes , I do know the pain of that "deer in the head lights" look from people when told they need to upgrade their "working" ten year old hardware (and software) that is being used everyday.
I have 1 user that is a game fanatic ... just keeps Installing games but never uninstalls anything. they complained there system was slow they only have 320 gig drive... but refused to change it. So I had a 2 terabyte. told them I had to vacuum and clean there system backed it up and booted from the new drive.
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  #11  
Old 05-30-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
I have no problem going to a different EPG ... but unlike others here I also support about 10 other households of which people are not as technical so I would like to know. So I can start moving them over etc...
You know if that happens, all you have to do is install the Schedules Direct plugin.

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I do not see what the big deal is about letting us know if the EPG data will follow the open source. I am sure they already know....
What if there's no change to inform anyone about.

Quote:
Just like they knew they were selling SageTV but did not let their users know... until it was sold.
Jeff let us know months in advance that it's going open source, and he's said he'd give us good warning if the EPG will die, so I'm not worried about that until I hear something saying it is going away.

As for google, I'm sure there was some sort of NDA in place as soon as negotiations started, and they weren't allowed to talk.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2015, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
You know if that happens, all you have to do is install the Schedules Direct plugin.



What if there's no change to inform anyone about.



Jeff let us know months in advance that it's going open source, and he's said he'd give us good warning if the EPG will die, so I'm not worried about that until I hear something saying it is going away.

As for google, I'm sure there was some sort of NDA in place as soon as negotiations started, and they weren't allowed to talk.
Personally I really do not care about SageTV if not for the people that I support in my Personal PC business I would not give a crap. What I am trying to say is what is the big deal to lets us know now so that I can tell my users that they will have to Pay for EPG data and renew every year.. I have been in the PC business for a long time and there is no way that they do not know what their plans are for the EPG data... it is ignorant to think otherwise.

Last edited by nyplayer; 05-30-2015 at 09:46 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2015, 10:17 AM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
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What I am trying to say is what is the big deal to lets us know now so that I can tell my users that they will have to Pay for EPG data and renew every year.. I have been in the PC business for a long time and there is no way that they do not know what their plans are for the EPG data... it is ignorant to think otherwise.
I see no particular reason to think that Jeff knows how long Sage users will keep EPG data. I'm not sure why you're so sure Jeff knows that information. He presumably knows how long the current agreement for existing systems is valid, but that doesn't mean he knows 1) how much longer it will continue after that, or 2) whether it applies to the open source code. If it doesn't, negotiations for licensing the data, as well as figuring out how to manage access to it, could take time and might fall through.

It seems like the most likely scenario is that Jeff doesn't know what's going to happen yet. He could say that, but then you still wouldn't know anything particularly useful beyond what you know today.

If I had to guess, I would say the current EPG agreement probably doesn't apply to the open source system. Since we haven't heard anything, Jeff may be looking into different options for how to deal with that. I have no idea how the licensing works for that kind of data (per person, per API access, by company, etc.), but presumably you'd need a way to lock out Myth, NextPVR, etc., from tapping into it.

I don't mind paying for data, but I want something that's going to work. Its not clear how long the Schedules Direct plugin will be supported.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2015, 05:23 PM
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.... I have been in the PC business for a long time and there is no way that they do not know what their plans are for the EPG data... it is ignorant to think otherwise.
It is entirely possible that some of the big wigs in Google know but Jeff does not. From what I can glean Sage is using the Same EPG service as Google Fiber (or at least it's closely related) so as long as that project lives so does our EPG data.
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2015, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tmiranda View Post
It is entirely possible that some of the big wigs in Google know but Jeff does not. From what I can glean Sage is using the Same EPG service as Google Fiber (or at least it's closely related) so as long as that project lives so does our EPG data.

Could be ... but it is just frustrating going on 3 months and a simple answer about the EPG cannot be answered... Hopefully registered users will not be affected and I will not have to do anything with the users I currently support. I was hoping if something had to be done an announcement would be made during the slow season of TV.
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
. but presumably you'd need a way to lock out Myth, NextPVR, etc., from tapping into it.
I can already tap into SageTV's EPG and load it into NextPVR I just never released the tool. My reasoning is that here in North America we really need consumer services like Schedules Direct and TVMedia and the must remain viable. Depending on "free" data from MCE (mc2xml) and SageTV eventually will hurt personal PVR services if consumer options dry up.

Martin
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2015, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Jeff's said a couple times (well at least once) he'd give us good warning before the guide data is shut off, and he hasn't warned us yet, so I'm not worrying about it.
Are you sure he wasn't referring to the closed-source SageTV before Google bought them? If so, that statement doesn't apply to the open-source version.
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2015, 06:14 AM
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Are you sure he wasn't referring to the closed-source SageTV before Google bought them? If so, that statement doesn't apply to the open-source version.
Finally .....
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2015, 07:43 AM
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Finally .....
But, from a "customer support" point of view (which is what you seem to be most concerned about)... You have no need to worry, since, you WILL get fair warning before the EPG runs out, on the CLOSED version, on which you clients are running. Why move them to an Open Source version at all? yes it would be nice to have all the answers to the open source version, but to be honest, I'd settle with just the source, for now

My guess is that when the source code is officially released, this question will be answered, but given that all we have is "sometime soon the source will be released", then there is no point in getting all worked up over other stuff.

For now, your supported customers are being supported, and there is nothing new you need to tell them.
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2015, 08:56 AM
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But, from a "customer support" point of view (which is what you seem to be most concerned about)... You have no need to worry, since, you WILL get fair warning before the EPG runs out, on the CLOSED version, on which you clients are running. Why move them to an Open Source version at all? yes it would be nice to have all the answers to the open source version, but to be honest, I'd settle with just the source, for now

My guess is that when the source code is officially released, this question will be answered, but given that all we have is "sometime soon the source will be released", then there is no point in getting all worked up over other stuff.

For now, your supported customers are being supported, and there is nothing new you need to tell them.
Makes sense.
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