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  #1  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:01 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Upgrade question

Back when I upgraded from one version to another - I think either to v7 or v9 - I remember reading some instruction where you had to change a line in sage.properties, then replace wiz.bin, then change the property line back. Is that still valid with upgrading to 64-bit? Or do I just install it, replace wiz.bin and wiz.bak (and sage.properties) with my old ones, and it will work?
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Server: AMD Athlon II x4 635 2.9GHz, 8 Gb RAM, Win 10 x64, Java 8, Gigabit network
Drives: Several TB of internal SATA and external USB drives, no NAS or RAID or such...
Software: SageTV v9x64, stock STV with ADM.
Tuners: 4 tuners via (2) HDHomeruns (100% OTA, DIY antennas in the attic).
Clients: Several HD300s, HD200s, even an old HD100, all on wired LAN. Latest firmware for each.
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:23 AM
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SHS SHS is offline
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I recommend install SageTV 64x and setup and like new especially if you have add-on plug-in customizations then close or stop the SageTV service from running then copy over the wiz.bin that it.

You can just install SageTV 64x and copy over the old 32x SageTV file wiz.bin and sage.properties then you need to edit the sage.properties file by fine and replace C\:\\Program Files (x86)\\ to C\:\\Program Files\\ and save and restart sagetv.
But keep in mind that add-on plug-in customizations may not work
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  #3  
Old 04-21-2020, 05:35 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Don't do an upgrade of your 32 bit version to the 64 bit version. Just stop (and disable) the 32 bit SageTV service, and install the 64 bit version to the default location, copy your wiz.bin file into the 64 bit install directory, and get it all configured. The end result is that you can run either your older 32 bit version OR the 64 bit version, just don't ever run both at the same time. With this method, I do not believe there is any editing of the properties file.

Be sure to manually backup the entire 32 bit directory before beginning this process.
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  #4  
Old 04-23-2020, 08:29 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Thanks, Krypto. I did it all this past weekend. Other than my noted issue that SchedulesDirect servers were down for maintenance when I did it (a "bad timing on my part" issue), everything went fine. I had some real head-scratchers which caused me to have to turn off x64 and turn x32 back on for a night, but I realized they were my own internal issues. Everything seems to be working fine.

The one thing I did notice (which I threadjacked the wizbin corruption thread here briefly to ask about) is that the java heap for Sagex64 was defaulted to 0. So after telling my family that we wouldn't have the issues when multiple people were watching extenders at the same time, it was worse than ever before yesterday... I went in and found the java heap for the x64 version at 0 and

I set it nice and high so we should not have issues again (fingers crossed).
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Server: AMD Athlon II x4 635 2.9GHz, 8 Gb RAM, Win 10 x64, Java 8, Gigabit network
Drives: Several TB of internal SATA and external USB drives, no NAS or RAID or such...
Software: SageTV v9x64, stock STV with ADM.
Tuners: 4 tuners via (2) HDHomeruns (100% OTA, DIY antennas in the attic).
Clients: Several HD300s, HD200s, even an old HD100, all on wired LAN. Latest firmware for each.
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2020, 10:39 AM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
Thanks, Krypto. I did it all this past weekend. Other than my noted issue that SchedulesDirect servers were down for maintenance when I did it (a "bad timing on my part" issue), everything went fine. I had some real head-scratchers which caused me to have to turn off x64 and turn x32 back on for a night, but I realized they were my own internal issues. Everything seems to be working fine.

The one thing I did notice (which I threadjacked the wizbin corruption thread here briefly to ask about) is that the java heap for Sagex64 was defaulted to 0. So after telling my family that we wouldn't have the issues when multiple people were watching extenders at the same time, it was worse than ever before yesterday... I went in and found the java heap for the x64 version at 0 and

I set it nice and high so we should not have issues again (fingers crossed).
0 means it uses the internal default of 300h (768MB) which is the same as 32-bit is. I changed that to 400h (1GB) in the latest code but there hasn’t been a release built in a while to capture it.
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2020, 06:43 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post

I set it nice and high so we should not have issues again (fingers crossed).
I've had the 64 bit version run for a month or two without issue. Hope you see the same positive results.
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  #7  
Old 04-24-2020, 08:55 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnjj View Post
0 means it uses the internal default of 300h (768MB) which is the same as 32-bit is. I changed that to 400h (1GB) in the latest code but there hasn’t been a release built in a while to capture it.
Yeah, I did see in the Sage system information page that the max was 768. I reach that quickly and easily even with only one extender running. My kids both turned on an extender on that first day of using x64 and it crashed immediately.

I have also wondered if I have some sort of leak that drives up my memory usage. Like, maybe I'm using an app that few use and it causes issues? Or does having Sage auto-convert recordings use more? We auto-convert almost every recording (OTA MPEG2 to MKV) to save space.

In the past (x32) I had it set to 600h or 800h (I think). Our house usually doesn't have more than one extender on at once, and if not, after maybe a week or two, I'd start to see a slowdown if not a spinning circle crash. If two extenders would be used at once, it would be almost immediate. I'd check the server and my memory usage would be at like 1200 to 1400, so I'd need to restart.

On x64 I set my java heap to 1000h (4096). Within a few hours of doing so, my usage was already like 2400 (like double what used to crash me!). A day later (now) it's around 2850. I'm curious... will it keep creeping up, or should it find a peak and settle? I don't know how this stuff works at all.
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Server: AMD Athlon II x4 635 2.9GHz, 8 Gb RAM, Win 10 x64, Java 8, Gigabit network
Drives: Several TB of internal SATA and external USB drives, no NAS or RAID or such...
Software: SageTV v9x64, stock STV with ADM.
Tuners: 4 tuners via (2) HDHomeruns (100% OTA, DIY antennas in the attic).
Clients: Several HD300s, HD200s, even an old HD100, all on wired LAN. Latest firmware for each.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2020, 11:17 AM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Java will keep using as much heap as you give it. When it starts to run near the limit, it will “garbage collect” to free up all the chunks of memory that the program released previously. Until then it still appears to be in use.
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2020, 12:03 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Using larger heap size is one of the biggest benefits of 64 bit. I have 9 TVs that all have extenders and if I used more than 4 simultaneously it caused problems.

When I first installed the unRAID version of SageTV, which is 64 bit, I turned up my heap to 3G and turned on every extender and ran several Placeshifter instances and never had any issues.

Apparently the Linux version was always more efficient at heap usage than the Windows version.
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2020, 02:07 AM
VCRUser VCRUser is offline
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I got my first heap error message today. In the system info page it says JVM Heap size (used/total/max): 752mb/779mb/779mb. I've seen various posts about adjusting the heap size, but can't find any option to adjust it, either in the Java control panel or in Sage. Would that be in the properties file - if so, which entry?
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  #11  
Old 04-26-2020, 03:00 AM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCRUser View Post
I got my first heap error message today. In the system info page it says JVM Heap size (used/total/max): 752mb/779mb/779mb. I've seen various posts about adjusting the heap size, but can't find any option to adjust it, either in the Java control panel or in Sage. Would that be in the properties file - if so, which entry?
It’s in the Windows registry under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\SageTV\JVMMaxHeapSizeMB

Assuming you’re taking about the 64-bit version. Otherwise for 32-bit running on a 64-bit OS it’s:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Frey Technologies\SageTV\JVMMaxHeapSizeMB
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  #12  
Old 04-26-2020, 09:33 AM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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I have mine set to 1000 (4096MB) on the 64bit Sage. It's been working well.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg javaheap.jpg (21.1 KB, 98 views)
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2020, 05:22 PM
VCRUser VCRUser is offline
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I have a 32 bit os (Windows 7 32 bit). I found the registry key, and the current setting is 0 - which I assume means whatever is the default? Does increasing it have a similar effect in a 32-bit OS?
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2020, 05:57 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Yes but the max for 32 bit is 400h or 1024 decimal. With 64 bit and lots of memory the sky is the limit but 4G should be way more than plenty.
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2020, 05:52 PM
VCRUser VCRUser is offline
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Does it matter whether Sage server is running when I make the change,and do I need to reboot the pc and/or restart sage to put it into effect (and/or prevent it from confusing Sage)?
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Server: Windows 8.1 4gb RAM; 4TB SATA + others. Homebrew quad core AMD. Inputs: Haup. 980, 850 & 950Q on ATSC; Haup 1600 on ATSC & Comcast 2 DTAs with USBUIRT for NTSC. Haup 1800 on ATSC. HDHR Dual (ATSC). Sage 9.22 64 bit.
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  #16  
Old 04-27-2020, 06:03 PM
JustFred JustFred is offline
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The registry change can be made while Sage is running, but Sage needs to be restarted to pick up the new value. No need to reboot the entire PC.
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System #1: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HDHR-US (1st gen white) tuners. HD-200.
System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
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  #17  
Old 08-26-2021, 10:03 AM
laberet laberet is offline
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Switching to x64 2021. what Java

Hey guys. Recently did some updates to sagetv and ran in to some issue. while troubleshooting I see Javaheap is almost always maxed out at 1024 (32bit sagetv). I have quite a few extenders, plugins, large picture library, etc. Think I will follow the advise in this thread and install 64 bit in parallel and just copy the wiz.bin.

Question. What should I do about Java in 2021 and beyond? Will SageTV work with OpenJDK? should I switch to that?
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Server: Win10 Pro 64b 19041.1237, ASUS STRIX X299-E, Intel i9-7940X 14c 28t, 32GB@3200, GTX 1080 Ti Storage: NVMe boot, 2x 4TB HD data, NAS data
SageTV: v9.2.5.936 (32b), Java 1.8.0_301 Plugins: Gemstone, Web Interface, Mobile Web Interface, Batch Metadata Tools, Java Heap Monitor
Sources: 4x ATSC OTA HDHR5-4US, 2x Sat (Dish), HDPVR(1.7.1.30059.1)<-->VIP211K, USB-UIRT(2.12.26.0 2/24/2017) Extenders: 6xHD300
Other: Homeseer HS3 w/plugins (Zwave, JowiHue, Ecobee, MeiHarmonyHub), Shairport4w,
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  #18  
Old 08-26-2021, 12:16 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laberet View Post
Hey guys. Recently did some updates to sagetv and ran in to some issue. while troubleshooting I see Javaheap is almost always maxed out at 1024 (32bit sagetv). I have quite a few extenders, plugins, large picture library, etc. Think I will follow the advise in this thread and install 64 bit in parallel and just copy the wiz.bin.

Question. What should I do about Java in 2021 and beyond? Will SageTV work with OpenJDK? should I switch to that?
I switched to the unRAID version of SageTV several years ago to solve this heap problem since it was 64 bit and it wasn't clear when, if ever, that we would get a 64 bit version of SageTV. I use 3GB for Java Heap, which is probably overkill, but I have been able to run over a dozen clients all using Gemstone at the same time without issues (as a test, I don't actually need to have this many clients). Now I leave most of my extenders on 24x7 to minimize startup times.

Java versions upgrades can be issues. I don't know about OpenJDK but moving to newer versions of Java can cause problems with some of the plugins. I am currently using Java 8 and have to be careful on upgrading. There has been some discussion on this in the unRAID sub-forum - Java 11 seems to work OK but there are issues with Java 16. I would think that would be the same on either Win or Linux.
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2021, 12:21 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Here's my thread from 2017 on running a whole bunch of clients: https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64017
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #20  
Old 08-26-2021, 03:41 PM
laberet laberet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
I switched to the unRAID version of SageTV several years ago to solve this heap problem since it was 64 bit and it wasn't clear when, if ever, that we would get a 64 bit version of SageTV. I use 3GB for Java Heap, which is probably overkill, but I have been able to run over a dozen clients all using Gemstone at the same time without issues (as a test, I don't actually need to have this many clients). Now I leave most of my extenders on 24x7 to minimize startup times.

Java versions upgrades can be issues. I don't know about OpenJDK but moving to newer versions of Java can cause problems with some of the plugins. I am currently using Java 8 and have to be careful on upgrading. There has been some discussion on this in the unRAID sub-forum - Java 11 seems to work OK but there are issues with Java 16. I would think that would be the same on either Win or Linux.
Thanks for sharing. I've looked at unraid and like the idea. I'm not a linux expert so it worries me a bit that I wont have the knowledge I do on the windows side. Also, my SageTV computer does other things and some of those are windows only.

But, I'm increasingly disgusted with Windows 10/11. They keep ripping out windows 7 era functionality without replacing it. I just had to rebuild this Windows install because I tried to roll back some windows updates that caused issues and my computer went in to a BSOD loop. They removed F8 and recovery environment boot disks and have some asinine system where you need to stop the computer from loading three times in a row to initiate a recovery environment. In my case it never would start WinRE and give me the ability to load safe mode and fix whatever was preventing windows to load. Installation media boot disk does not have the ability to do a repair install anymore and is very limited in what it can do to a windows install unless you boot through that windows install. I had no way to repair the current version of Win10 but could have easily with any prior version. They spend all their development resources changing the look and feel and adding more telemetry to sell information on what you do. Its clear they are on a dystopic path I want no part of. Sorry for the rant but fed up with Microsoft Windows. It's been on a downward path since they abandoned Windows 7 Media Center edition. Since that point they have been removing more than adding. There are still tons of control panel options from windows 7 that are still there and in some cases the only way to change certain items aside from the registry. Windows 11 is just another aesthetic overhaul where features will be removed and privacy lost.
/rant
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Server: Win10 Pro 64b 19041.1237, ASUS STRIX X299-E, Intel i9-7940X 14c 28t, 32GB@3200, GTX 1080 Ti Storage: NVMe boot, 2x 4TB HD data, NAS data
SageTV: v9.2.5.936 (32b), Java 1.8.0_301 Plugins: Gemstone, Web Interface, Mobile Web Interface, Batch Metadata Tools, Java Heap Monitor
Sources: 4x ATSC OTA HDHR5-4US, 2x Sat (Dish), HDPVR(1.7.1.30059.1)<-->VIP211K, USB-UIRT(2.12.26.0 2/24/2017) Extenders: 6xHD300
Other: Homeseer HS3 w/plugins (Zwave, JowiHue, Ecobee, MeiHarmonyHub), Shairport4w,
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