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  #1  
Old 10-09-2021, 08:42 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 865
It's Time to Say Goodbye

After over 10 years, I have shut down SageTV. A number of factors lead to this decision.

I did a review of what we were watching with some surprising results:
  • 65% - OTA broadcast channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CW, etc.)
  • 30% - Streaming services (Prime, Disney+, etc.)
  • 5% - Cable channels (Bravo, SyFy, USA, etc.)
Then Xfinity raised my cable bill by $40 a month which made me realize that I could get most stations for free with an OTA antenna.

Also, I felt I was spending too much time ensuring that SageTV kept working (i.e. old plugins not supported, patches for transcoding, Windows updates, java dependencies, etc.). And if something did break, the resolution was in days, not hours. (No disrespect to the people supporting SageTV, you have done a fantastic job keeping it running in your spare time, but I wanted dedicated support.)

Finally, SageTV did not and would never support any streaming services.

Here is my new setup:

MEDIA SOURCES:

OTA – it took a while, but I finally found an antenna that lets me receive 83 broadcast channels. I replaced my HRHomeRun Primes with a HDHomeRun Quatro.

Cable Channels – I added a subscription to SlingTV Blue for $35 a month for 84 channels

Streaming Services – I have subscriptions to Amazon Prime and Disney Plus. I add subscriptions to other services for a month when I find a completed series I want to record.

SOFTWARE

Plex – is used as my library for all movies and TV series that I want to keep permanently.

AnyStream – downloads from the following streaming services: Amazon Prime, Netflix, Disney+, Hulu, HBOMax

PlayOn (Desktop/Cloud) – Used to record any shows that I might have missed or from other streaming services: Peacock, Paramount, Discovery +, etc.

ChannelsDVR – This is my new SageTV. I use it to record and watch and delete. It works great remotely and has a dedicated support team. (Bug fixes are often released in hours.) The best part is that it allows me to incorporate some non on-demand streaming services. You can record or watch live from OTA (HDHomeRun), Sling TV (TVE login), Pluto TV and other sources. (You also have the ability to add your own source.) It also supports multiple import directories for local content. (AnySteam and PlayOn Desktop record to these directories.)

In summary, ChannelsDVR is a single source for everything we want to watch. It is only $80 a year and they are constantly improving the service. For example: when LOCAST went out of business, they added Locals via a TVE subscription. SageTV was a major improvement over the Tivo’s I used before. ChannelsDVR seems to be the next step in the evolution of home DVRs.

I will stop in from time-to-time to see how everyone is doing. Thanks for a fantastic 10+ years.
__________________
Hardware: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU; 8GB (2 x 4GB); 2-4TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s HDD; Windows 7
Servers: ChannelsDVR, Plex, AnyStream, PlayOn,
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Quatro
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Duo
Sources: OTA, Sling Blue, Prime, Disney+,
Clients: ShieldTV (2), Fire TV Stick 4K (4)
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2021, 10:02 AM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
After over 10 years, I have shut down SageTV. A number of factors lead to this decision.

I did a review of what we were watching with some surprising results:
  • 65% - OTA broadcast channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CW, etc.)
  • 30% - Streaming services (Prime, Disney+, etc.)
  • 5% - Cable channels (Bravo, SyFy, USA, etc.)
Then Xfinity raised my cable bill by $40 a month which made me realize that I could get most stations for free with an OTA antenna.

Also, I felt I was spending too much time ensuring that SageTV kept working (i.e. old plugins not supported, patches for transcoding, Windows updates, java dependencies, etc.). And if something did break, the resolution was in days, not hours. (No disrespect to the people supporting SageTV, you have done a fantastic job keeping it running in your spare time, but I wanted dedicated support.)

Finally, SageTV did not and would never support any streaming services.

Here is my new setup:

MEDIA SOURCES:

OTA – it took a while, but I finally found an antenna that lets me receive 83 broadcast channels. I replaced my HRHomeRun Primes with a HDHomeRun Quatro.

Cable Channels – I added a subscription to SlingTV Blue for $35 a month for 84 channels

Streaming Services – I have subscriptions to Amazon Prime and Disney Plus. I add subscriptions to other services for a month when I find a completed series I want to record.

SOFTWARE

Plex – is used as my library for all movies and TV series that I want to keep permanently.

AnyStream – downloads from the following streaming services: Amazon Prime, Netflix, Disney+, Hulu, HBOMax

PlayOn (Desktop/Cloud) – Used to record any shows that I might have missed or from other streaming services: Peacock, Paramount, Discovery +, etc.

ChannelsDVR – This is my new SageTV. I use it to record and watch and delete. It works great remotely and has a dedicated support team. (Bug fixes are often released in hours.) The best part is that it allows me to incorporate some non on-demand streaming services. You can record or watch live from OTA (HDHomeRun), Sling TV (TVE login), Pluto TV and other sources. (You also have the ability to add your own source.) It also supports multiple import directories for local content. (AnySteam and PlayOn Desktop record to these directories.)

In summary, ChannelsDVR is a single source for everything we want to watch. It is only $80 a year and they are constantly improving the service. For example: when LOCAST went out of business, they added Locals via a TVE subscription. SageTV was a major improvement over the Tivo’s I used before. ChannelsDVR seems to be the next step in the evolution of home DVRs.

I will stop in from time-to-time to see how everyone is doing. Thanks for a fantastic 10+ years.
Most of the reasons you posted above is also why I am in the process of retiring SageTV permanently. See you on the Channels DVR forum.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2021, 01:32 PM
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tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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So neither one of you two record off a satellite set top box? Would Channels DVR allow for that? I use Shaw Direct satellite, a Canadian service. Anyone? I didn't see ANY Canadian providers listed in their drop-down A-Z listings
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Last edited by tvmaster2; 10-09-2021 at 01:35 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2021, 02:18 PM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
So neither one of you two record off a satellite set top box? Would Channels DVR allow for that? I use Shaw Direct satellite, a Canadian service. Anyone? I didn't see ANY Canadian providers listed in their drop-down A-Z listings
Not directly, but they have implemented "Custom Channels" that lets your import other sources. (That is how I got Pluto TV into channels.)

Take a look at this thread:
https://community.getchannels.com/t/sat-ip-support/7449

Sign-in to the forum and ask, you might be surprised at the answer.

The developer is actively working with with people to get it working.
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Hardware: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU; 8GB (2 x 4GB); 2-4TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s HDD; Windows 7
Servers: ChannelsDVR, Plex, AnyStream, PlayOn,
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Quatro
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Duo
Sources: OTA, Sling Blue, Prime, Disney+,
Clients: ShieldTV (2), Fire TV Stick 4K (4)

Last edited by NetworkGuy; 10-09-2021 at 02:22 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2021, 05:56 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Posts: 2,552
One of the networks that I watch frequently on Channels DVR has managed to implement DRM on their TVE stream, so we no longer receive it on that system. How much longer will it be before the rest do it, and leave us right back with only OTA?
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2021, 05:59 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
The developer is actively working with with people to get it working.
Where do we find this on their forum? Will I need to be a programmer to figure it out?
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2021, 06:36 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Where do we find this on their forum? Will I need to be a programmer to figure it out?
It is called search.
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2021, 06:41 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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How did I know you would show up here, Edwin, with your usual bullshit.
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2021, 06:48 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
How did I know you would show up here, Edwin, with your usual bullshit.
You spew enough bullshit for both of us. All you do is bitch and moan over at the Channels Forum. When was the last time you contributed your time to keep Sage alive ? or helped anyone ?
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Last edited by nyplayer; 10-09-2021 at 06:50 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2021, 02:22 AM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
Not directly, but they have implemented "Custom Channels" that lets your import other sources. (That is how I got Pluto TV into channels.)

Take a look at this thread:
https://community.getchannels.com/t/sat-ip-support/7449

Sign-in to the forum and ask, you might be surprised at the answer.

The developer is actively working with with people to get it working.
I see DirectTV on their list, so there must be a way via IR to control a set top box, but I don’t see Dish, or any of the Canadian satellite providers. I’ll try and understand that link you sent, which at the moment, I don’t. But anything that isn’t native from the manufacturer to begin with is usually a no-can-do for me

Note: I checked here, https://www.digitalhome.ca/ , for the words “ChannelsDvr”, or “Channels DVR” - nada. This is Canada’s foremost TV nerd site. So it doesn’t look like CDVR is in use there.
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Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson

Last edited by tvmaster2; 10-10-2021 at 02:38 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2021, 04:51 AM
KeithAbbott KeithAbbott is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
I did a review of what we were watching with some surprising results:
  • 65% - OTA broadcast channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CW, etc.)
  • 30% - Streaming services (Prime, Disney+, etc.)
  • 5% - Cable channels (Bravo, SyFy, USA, etc.)
Did you use any sort of tool to help you do that review? SageTV should have all of the information internally to do that kind of reporting; but unless I am missing something, nothing like that exists today.
__________________
Server: MSI Z270 SLI Plus ATX Motherboard, Intel i7-7700T CPU, 32GB Memory, unRAID 6.9.2, SageTV (java11) & OpenDCT Dockers
Tuners: 2 x SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime Cable TV Tuners, SiliconDust HDHomeRun CONNECT 4K OTA Tuner
Clients: Multiple HD300 Extenders, Multiple Fire TV Stick 4K Max w/MiniClient
Miscellaneous: Multiple Sony RM-VLZ620 Universal Remote Controls
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2021, 05:47 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAbbott View Post
Did you use any sort of tool to help you do that review? SageTV should have all of the information internally to do that kind of reporting; but unless I am missing something, nothing like that exists today.
I just did a manual count of the shows I was recording.
__________________
Hardware: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU; 8GB (2 x 4GB); 2-4TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s HDD; Windows 7
Servers: ChannelsDVR, Plex, AnyStream, PlayOn,
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Quatro
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Duo
Sources: OTA, Sling Blue, Prime, Disney+,
Clients: ShieldTV (2), Fire TV Stick 4K (4)
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2021, 05:48 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
I see DirectTV on their list, so there must be a way via IR to control a set top box, but I don’t see Dish, or any of the Canadian satellite providers. I’ll try and understand that link you sent, which at the moment, I don’t. But anything that isn’t native from the manufacturer to begin with is usually a no-can-do for me

Note: I checked here, https://www.digitalhome.ca/ , for the words “ChannelsDvr”, or “Channels DVR” - nada. This is Canada’s foremost TV nerd site. So it doesn’t look like CDVR is in use there.
Here is the link to the documentation on Custom Channels:
https://getchannels.com/docs/channel...stom-channels/

And there is an entire forum category about it:
https://community.getchannels.com/c/...om-channels/36

It is not as bad as it seems. Post some questions, you will get a lot of people who are willing to help.
__________________
Hardware: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU; 8GB (2 x 4GB); 2-4TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s HDD; Windows 7
Servers: ChannelsDVR, Plex, AnyStream, PlayOn,
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Quatro
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Duo
Sources: OTA, Sling Blue, Prime, Disney+,
Clients: ShieldTV (2), Fire TV Stick 4K (4)

Last edited by NetworkGuy; 10-10-2021 at 05:51 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2021, 07:05 AM
AlphaCrew AlphaCrew is offline
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Whosevile
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
After over 10 years, I have shut down SageTV. A number of factors lead to this decision.

I did a review of what we were watching with some surprising results:
  • 65% - OTA broadcast channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CW, etc.)
  • 30% - Streaming services (Prime, Disney+, etc.)
  • 5% - Cable channels (Bravo, SyFy, USA, etc.)
Then Xfinity raised my cable bill by $40 a month which made me realize that I could get most stations for free with an OTA antenna.

Also, I felt I was spending too much time ensuring that SageTV kept working (i.e. old plugins not supported, patches for transcoding, Windows updates, java dependencies, etc.). And if something did break, the resolution was in days, not hours. (No disrespect to the people supporting SageTV, you have done a fantastic job keeping it running in your spare time, but I wanted dedicated support.)

Finally, SageTV did not and would never support any streaming services.

Here is my new setup:

MEDIA SOURCES:

OTA – it took a while, but I finally found an antenna that lets me receive 83 broadcast channels. I replaced my HRHomeRun Primes with a HDHomeRun Quatro.

Cable Channels – I added a subscription to SlingTV Blue for $35 a month for 84 channels

Streaming Services – I have subscriptions to Amazon Prime and Disney Plus. I add subscriptions to other services for a month when I find a completed series I want to record.

SOFTWARE

Plex – is used as my library for all movies and TV series that I want to keep permanently.

AnyStream – downloads from the following streaming services: Amazon Prime, Netflix, Disney+, Hulu, HBOMax

PlayOn (Desktop/Cloud) – Used to record any shows that I might have missed or from other streaming services: Peacock, Paramount, Discovery +, etc.

ChannelsDVR – This is my new SageTV. I use it to record and watch and delete. It works great remotely and has a dedicated support team. (Bug fixes are often released in hours.) The best part is that it allows me to incorporate some non on-demand streaming services. You can record or watch live from OTA (HDHomeRun), Sling TV (TVE login), Pluto TV and other sources. (You also have the ability to add your own source.) It also supports multiple import directories for local content. (AnySteam and PlayOn Desktop record to these directories.)

In summary, ChannelsDVR is a single source for everything we want to watch. It is only $80 a year and they are constantly improving the service. For example: when LOCAST went out of business, they added Locals via a TVE subscription. SageTV was a major improvement over the Tivo’s I used before. ChannelsDVR seems to be the next step in the evolution of home DVRs.

I will stop in from time-to-time to see how everyone is doing. Thanks for a fantastic 10+ years.
Hate too see another user leave, but completely understand the need. Thanks for the help in the past.

In order for me to turn off SageTV, I would have to invest in new hardware. I do use Channels and it is indeed a great service, but the writing is on the wall, (actually has been for some time now) there will come a time when DRM will be encapsulated in every streaming environment. That monster just keeps getting more powerful by the year.

Until then or when the cost of my cable sub is higher then it's value, I will continue to use a combination of both SageTV (Main DVR for Cable), ChannelsDVR (TV Outlet and DVR) & Plex (Media Consumer).

Please stop in now-and-then with service updates.
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2021, 08:47 AM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
Here is the link to the documentation on Custom Channels:
https://getchannels.com/docs/channel...stom-channels/

And there is an entire forum category about it:
https://community.getchannels.com/c/...om-channels/36

It is not as bad as it seems. Post some questions, you will get a lot of people who are willing to help.
Thanks. I guess for us, who use OTA for only 2% of recordings (inconsistent signal reliability), and streaming about 15% of the time, cable and satellite are the business. Especially as a TiVo household.

Streaming has become so political and fragmented amongst the content creators that it’s become a cost-deterrent, not to mention the “we’re watching and keeping the data of what you’re watching” thing. It’s as if Facebook and Google are following your every move. lol.

Sage will continue (along with Tivo) to be our go-to dvr for some time yet
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2021, 09:27 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
Sage will continue (along with Tivo) to be our go-to dvr for some time yet
You may want to play around. From the instructions, it does not look that hard.

Quote:
Add via URL

You can add an M3U playlist by its URL. Enter the URL and Channels will import it. This lets you import an M3U playlist from another source or something hosted elsewhere.

SAT>IP


Many SAT>IP devices expose an M3U url using the satip:X_SATIPM3U tag in their XML device description. These URLs vary, but generally look like one of the following:

http://<SATIP>/desc.xml
http://<SATIP>:8000/description.xml
http://<SATIP>/channellist.m3u

If your device does not export M3U, you can generate your own M3U using HTTP or RTSP urls. For example, the ASTRA satellite M3Us can be found on satip.info:

https://www.satip.info/Playlists/ASTRA_19_2E_logos.m3u
https://www.satip.info/Playlists/ASTRA_28_2E.m3u
__________________
Hardware: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU; 8GB (2 x 4GB); 2-4TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s HDD; Windows 7
Servers: ChannelsDVR, Plex, AnyStream, PlayOn,
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Quatro
Tuner: HDHomeRun Connect Duo
Sources: OTA, Sling Blue, Prime, Disney+,
Clients: ShieldTV (2), Fire TV Stick 4K (4)
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:40 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
You spew enough bullshit for both of us. All you do is bitch and moan over at the Channels Forum. When was the last time you contributed your time to keep Sage alive ? or helped anyone ?
Yes, Edwin, having a service like Channels DVR that routinely misses recordings is something new to me, and I'm going to "moan about it" in their forum. Whether its yet another problem with the Discovery Channel suite randomly not authenticating on TVE, or the loss of Youtube TVE entirely, or the loss of Bally's and the looming reality that all TVE will probably figure out DRM, or the mystery new channels that just appear out of nowhere because Channels just takes and uses whatever the HDHR OTA tuner found on any given day in a city 70 miles away, it's frustrating to have that many missed recordings after years of solid SageTV service. There were guys that just started showing up here in the forum a couple years after the acquisition shocked at what had happened, because their SageTV server had been faithfully plodding along without issue in a closet all that time.

I'm not a programmer, so I have contributed $ to the developers that remain here at SageTV, and continue to do so (especially those that automated through Patreon). I contribute $ to the Channels Developers on a monthly basis, as required, and I have no issue with that small fee. Heck, I even contributed to you, back when SageTV was bought and you had this mysterious stack of extra SageTV client licenses that you sold discretely through private messaging and email.

I completely understand folks that have moved on - there are numerous other options that are viable for some, and I appreciate them coming in here to report on those options - but it's important to be honest about expectations with those options. For those of you that are done, I'm really sorry to see you go. This community isn't just about television, it's about ingenuity, and there has been a lot of it in the last decade-and-a-half.

I just bought a 4-channel-input HDMI network encoder, and with WMC7/Ceton6, (4) X-box 360's, and that network encoder I'm hoping to stretch Sage for as long as cable cards exist. Now that we have a working miniclient for remote connections, it's starting to look pretty decent.

The real icing on the cake? I started watching a football game today one hour behind, and it comskip'd me right through it - all the way to the end.

Thanks for the links NetworkGuy.
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2021, 07:47 PM
trk2 trk2 is offline
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Wow, we haven't had this much excitement since Fuzzy was posting.

Cheers Network Guy. Take it easy.
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  #19  
Old 10-10-2021, 08:19 PM
KeithAbbott KeithAbbott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trk2 View Post
Wow, we haven't had this much excitement since Fuzzy was posting.
Fuzzy and Stanger89, good times, good times...
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  #20  
Old 10-10-2021, 08:42 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trk2 View Post
Wow, we haven't had this much excitement since Fuzzy was posting.

Cheers Network Guy. Take it easy.
Where is fuzzy ?
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