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  #21  
Old 11-22-2016, 11:17 AM
phantomii phantomii is offline
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I am actually pretty open to a HD400. I would actually though see a better option of having an increased focus on the Android Client by multiple contributors so missing and new features could be added rather than multiple projects each accomplishing less.

I use my sage system as a DVR and a media server for other video's like DVD's or Blu Rays and the current Android Client does not support these capabilities due to limitations on what it can play. Not all of my family members are very tech savvy and struggle dealing with any more than one interface. I am attempting to use Kodi for some of these things as it plays almost everything and the remote integration for android is pretty good across multiple devices. Ultimately I would really like the single interface to play everything which is just not possible today. So however we could one day get there in my opinion would be wonderful.....
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2016, 11:24 AM
CollegeProject CollegeProject is offline
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What's the appeal for native rips? MKV is pretty great container and with ineterfaces like Plex you get native chapter support with any container if chapter support is what your after
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  #23  
Old 11-22-2016, 11:56 AM
jm9843 jm9843 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
I suspect that pretty much everything could be handled in the Android TV app itself, with the right skills. (Espeically when you hear, Kodi can do ____, or Plex can do ___... generially this means people on their teams have the skills necessary to make the video player modifications to support more features on the hardware)
+1. The Shield TV, in particular, has proven to be capable of what most users want (e.g. 3D MVC being an outlier).

And if expanding SageTV's reach or appeal is a goal, then there's something to be said about supporting a mass market, open platform that 'just works' and follows the familiar app store paradigm. A single purpose box would need to be demonstratively better to be justified, imo. By that I mean, there exists a feature that's important enough to users which isn't technically feasible on Android.
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  #24  
Old 11-22-2016, 01:14 PM
trk2 trk2 is offline
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Originally Posted by CollegeProject View Post
What's the appeal for native rips? MKV is pretty great container and with ineterfaces like Plex you get native chapter support with any container if chapter support is what your after
I use both native rips and MKVs. The biggest limitation with MKV is for movies that have different cuts (theatrical, director etc...) by seamless branching. You either make multiple MKVs or you only rip one version. The other, Sage specific issue is that the forced subtitle flag for mkvs is not honored (there is an open issue on this on Github).
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  #25  
Old 11-22-2016, 01:47 PM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Originally Posted by trk2 View Post
I use both native rips and MKVs. The biggest limitation with MKV is for movies that have different cuts (theatrical, director etc...) by seamless branching. You either make multiple MKVs or you only rip one version. The other, Sage specific issue is that the forced subtitle flag for mkvs is not honored (there is an open issue on this on Github).
FWIW, MKV does support seamless branching (called ordered chapters in MKV's specs) - it's just many players do not.
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2016, 02:03 PM
trk2 trk2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
FWIW, MKV does support seamless branching (called ordered chapters in MKV's specs) - it's just many players do not.
That's good to know. I assume the MKV would have multiple chapter playlists to represent the different variants? My guess is that the other issue is that many rippers also do not support this feature.
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2016, 02:52 PM
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panteragstk panteragstk is offline
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While I get the appeal of having one app play all movies/TV I'm not really in that boat anymore.

I had a very complex client HTPC that would play all my movies, but it was complicated to set up and if something in my automation didn't go perfectly it was up to me to fix. Wifey knows nothing about technology so it wasn't an optimal solution. I honestly never got reliable blu-ray playback when I updated to v7 due to sage having internal splitters.

Android TV has totally removed all the issues I ever had with my PC client. It just works. Sean's app is fantastic (would love bitstream audio, but that is the only complaint I have). I only use Sage for TV now and leverage Plex and SPMC (Kodi) for movie playback. Kodi can play everything, but I find myself using Plex 99% of the time. My wife can do everything she needs to with Android TV and never has any issues.

I can see where a STB that is just sage would have appeal for some people, but as others have stated getting it to that point would be very difficult to do and the effort would be much better spent on getting the Miniclient app to do all of those things. I know there are device limitations for some things (native resolution, refresh rate switching, etc) that will vary from device to device, but if Plex and Kodi can do it, so can we with the right talent (I am not part of the talent, no coding skills for me sorry).

The last thing is that both Plex and Kodi have native installs for a PC, but I'm not sure they have ARM based installs. So there seems to be a market for that, but I think if we were to go that route we should really consider getting the Miniclient app as close as possible to the native install. Especially since we can attract more users that way. I am a member of another forum with a very lengthy post on how they got SageTV up and running and use the Android TV boxes for clients. They started using sage AFTER it went open source so our user base is expanding.
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2016, 03:30 PM
will will is offline
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Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Maybe I'm in the minority these days, but as a Sage USER, I would welcome an out-of-box extender experience like an HD400. I have a feeling that there are a lot more folks out there that would very much enjoy this, too, but they haven't even arrived here yet because of the work involved in getting a whole home experience with SageTV as it stands today.
+1 to this.

I absolutely love my extenders. I understand the appeal of having Netflix as an app but personally I find using Netflix or HBO Go through a TV interface (e.g., Roku or Apple TV) very lacking.

I've actually added in a Chromecast to my SageTV box through an HD-PVR 1212 and now have full access to YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, HBO Go, and any other app that supports Google Chromecast on every TV in my house. To switch to the Chromecast I just tune into live TV on channel 2000 and cast from my iPhone. I can pause, rewind (smoothly) and record and store what I'm streaming all through SageTV (just being able to rewind instantly 10 seconds on Netflix makes this setup great). This works much better than PlayOn, is HD, and the native iPhone apps are much easier to use than trying to find a show through a TV interface.

I feel like with the addition of Chromecast, my HD300 works a lot better than an Android Mini client. Besides Netflix/HBO/Hulu what does the mini-client offer?

Also, does the mini-client share the same code base like SageTV and the Client does? My understanding is that the code is separate for the mini-client. Assuming the code is separate would it make more sense from a time perspective to focus on the SageTV Server/Client and just make an easy install for an Intel Computer Stick like this one?
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2016, 03:45 PM
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panteragstk panteragstk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will View Post
+1 to this.

I absolutely love my extenders. I understand the appeal of having Netflix as an app but personally I find using Netflix or HBO Go through a TV interface (e.g., Roku or Apple TV) very lacking.

I've actually added in a Chromecast to my SageTV box through an HD-PVR 1212 and now have full access to YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, HBO Go, and any other app that supports Google Chromecast on every TV in my house. To switch to the Chromecast I just tune into live TV on channel 2000 and cast from my iPhone. I can pause, rewind (smoothly) and record and store what I'm streaming all through SageTV (just being able to rewind instantly 10 seconds on Netflix makes this setup great). This works much better than PlayOn, is HD, and the native iPhone apps are much easier to use than trying to find a show through a TV interface.

I feel like with the addition of Chromecast, my HD300 works a lot better than an Android Mini client. Besides Netflix/HBO/Hulu what does the mini-client offer?

Also, does the mini-client share the same code base like SageTV and the Client does? My understanding is that the code is separate for the mini-client. Assuming the code is separate would it make more sense from a time perspective to focus on the SageTV Server/Client and just make an easy install for an Intel Computer Stick like this one?
Have you used an Android TV device? It does a lot more than just Netflix and makes watching the streaming sources your use with you chromecast much easier.

In your setup you have to pick up your remote (assuming universal that controls the TV and HD300), turn on your tv (which I'm assuming is already set to your HD300 input) go to the guide, find channel 2000 (or manually input the channel). Then you have to pick up your phone, go to the netflix app, find what you want to watch, press play, tap the cast icon and watch. If you want to pause you have to pick up your phone (possibly enter a passcode) and press pause.

Using an Android TV you pick up the remote, turn on the TV (already on Android TV input) select netflix, find a show, play it. if you want to pause you pick up the remote and press pause.

I don't see how your way is easier on you than using a streaming box would be. There are a lot less steps. I can see the appeal of being able to record from the streaming box, but that's about the only benefit I can think of. I think you might really like using the miniclient as an app along side everything else you use. Might consider getting the Mii box just to try it out. I think you'll be pleased with the results. You can always return it.
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  #30  
Old 11-22-2016, 04:01 PM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panteragstk View Post
Have you used an Android TV device? It does a lot more than just Netflix and makes watching the streaming sources your use with you chromecast much easier.

In your setup you have to pick up your remote (assuming universal that controls the TV and HD300), turn on your tv (which I'm assuming is already set to your HD300 input) go to the guide, find channel 2000 (or manually input the channel). Then you have to pick up your phone, go to the netflix app, find what you want to watch, press play, tap the cast icon and watch. If you want to pause you have to pick up your phone (possibly enter a passcode) and press pause.

Using an Android TV you pick up the remote, turn on the TV (already on Android TV input) select netflix, find a show, play it. if you want to pause you pick up the remote and press pause.

I don't see how your way is easier on you than using a streaming box would be. There are a lot less steps. I can see the appeal of being able to record from the streaming box, but that's about the only benefit I can think of. I think you might really like using the miniclient as an app along side everything else you use. Might consider getting the Mii box just to try it out. I think you'll be pleased with the results. You can always return it.
I was about to just say all of this. With the shield or mi box (proper Android TV devices), you will eventually, once apps are fully updated to support universal search, just pick up the remote, press the microphone button, and say 'Play Daredevil', then select netflix from the list of apps that stated it was available, sit back, and watch. One button and 4 spoken words.
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  #31  
Old 11-22-2016, 05:29 PM
will will is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panteragstk View Post
Have you used an Android TV device? It does a lot more than just Netflix and makes watching the streaming sources your use with you chromecast much easier.
I haven't used an Android TV device. I was just wondering if there was something else besides streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panteragstk View Post
In your setup you have to pick up your remote (assuming universal that controls the TV and HD300), turn on your tv (which I'm assuming is already set to your HD300 input) go to the guide, find channel 2000 (or manually input the channel). Then you have to pick up your phone, go to the netflix app, find what you want to watch, press play, tap the cast icon and watch. If you want to pause you have to pick up your phone (possibly enter a passcode) and press pause.
Not 100% accurate. First off, you have to turn on your TV no mater what, Sage or Android; and all the HD300 remotes support turning on the TV. Assuming you are using Android TV you have to go to Netflix (not that much different than going to channel 2000). Also, I could program in a custom macro into a universal remote that would be a Chromecast button and turn on the TV and tune into the Chromecast channel (the channel number was arbitrarily selected by me). So it seems like the convenience is a wash with either setup.

You still have to find what you want to watch in the Netflix App on Android TV (similar to using your phone to find what you want to watch). Once the show is casting you don't have to touch your phone for anything; for pausing you just use the SageTV remote, same thing for rewinding (huge plus if you like to rewind 10 or 30 seconds a lot because you missed something - no buffering required). And I personally feel like it is easier to search and browse Netflix on an iPhone than with a 10ft user interface (personal preference).

Bottom line: the way I look at it is if your TV viewing revolves 80% or more around cable/sat and 20% (or less in my case) around streaming I feel like my solution could be a viable option. If your family spends more time streaming than using SageTV then other options may make more sense. I happen to have a 350 movie library (600 if you count recorded movies) in SageTV and 80 days worth of recorded TV; for me and my family we don't stream a lot so being able to watch House of Cards through all my HD300s is about all we need. [By-the-way, I agree that casting dose suck if you use your phone to play/pause and then you need another remote for volume, etc. - but it feels like a native recording when I play it through my current setup).]

Quote:
Originally Posted by panteragstk View Post
Might consider getting the Mii box just to try it out. I think you'll be pleased with the results. You can always return it.
I'll look into the Mi box; the shield didn't appeal to me but the Mi looks really nice and it would be fun to play around with Android TV.

In your experience, what it is like using SageTV with an "Apple style" almost no-buttons remote? I use a lot of the buttons on my SageTV remote; it seems like it would slow you down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
With the shield or mi box (proper Android TV devices), you will eventually, once apps are fully updated to support universal search, just pick up the remote, press the microphone button, and say 'Play Daredevil', then select netflix from the list of apps that stated it was available, sit back, and watch. One button and 4 spoken words.
That would be pretty cool assuming it works well (which it probably would because it's Google). But then again what if Netflix updated their app to support Siri? Apple is already rolling out universal search for Apple TV; I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up in iOS soon. So it could be a moot point.
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2016, 05:54 PM
CollegeProject CollegeProject is offline
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Originally Posted by will View Post
(which it probably would because it's Google). But then again what if Netflix updated their app to support Siri? Apple is already rolling out universal search for Apple TV; I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up in iOS soon. So it could be a moot point.
I am pretty sure universal search already supports netflix, vudu and amazon IIRC and it works well. But Apple is a closed box I wouldn't even consider them for anything media consumption based personally.

This is also the case on many boxes (ie tivo) you can search across multiple sources from one menu.

Casting from a phone is a no go for me. I don't wanna pick up my phone to watch anything it isn't intuitive or functional.
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2016, 06:32 PM
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panteragstk panteragstk is offline
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Originally Posted by will View Post
You still have to find what you want to watch in the Netflix App on Android TV (similar to using your phone to find what you want to watch). Once the show is casting you don't have to touch your phone for anything; for pausing you just use the SageTV remote, same thing for rewinding (huge plus if you like to rewind 10 or 30 seconds a lot because you missed something - no buffering required). And I personally feel like it is easier to search and browse Netflix on an iPhone than with a 10ft user interface (personal preference).
Ah. That's pretty interesting then. I was thinking of how I used my chromecast (when I still used it).


Quote:
Originally Posted by will View Post
In your experience, what it is like using SageTV with an "Apple style" almost no-buttons remote? I use a lot of the buttons on my SageTV remote; it seems like it would slow you down.
The remote is actually pretty great. Press right to FF, left to RW. Center button to select and pause. Mic button for options. There is an OSD menu, but I don't find I use it very often. Once you get used to it you don't really miss the extra buttons, but if you need them you can always get another remote to control it with. Sean did a great job with the remote functions.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2016, 06:43 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Having a single device that handles SageTV, Netflix, Hulu, Google, Amazon, Youtube, or any other streaming option reminds me of a television with a DVD player built into it.

If any one of those streaming services break on that particular device (and let's face it, given a 24 month period for any Android device, you will be forced to upgrade to be compatible with at least one of those services), it compromises the whole idea of bringing all media into one device. Additionally, at some point, the device won't even support a further Android OS update, and again one of the streaming services will fall down.

That's why I like to keep my SageTV separate from other services, which is probably why an HD400 appeals to me.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2016, 06:48 PM
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... I would, however, like to take a moment to say that I use my Galaxy Note and Sean's miniclient to watch TV in any part of the house where I don't have a TV. It amazes a user like me that he has gotten that miniclient to work so well. It has to be a serious challenge to program <anything> in a world where nothing can be good for more than 3 years.
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2016, 06:53 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Originally Posted by jm9843 View Post
... By that I mean, there exists a feature that's important enough to users which isn't technically feasible on Android.
Can we get reliable 5.1 channel audio from most of the Android devices, to pass to the AVR?
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2016, 07:13 PM
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stuckless stuckless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Having a single device that handles SageTV, Netflix, Hulu, Google, Amazon, Youtube, or any other streaming option reminds me of a television with a DVD player built into it.
Except that a TV costs 1000s of dollars and something like Mi Box cost 69. These are disposble media players, that even if they are not upgradeable in 2-3 years, you get another one... (this was no different than than the MVP, HD100, HD200, HD300... except those cost $200 at the time) (I own all of those units )

Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Can we get reliable 5.1 channel audio from most of the Android devices, to pass to the AVR?
this is where someone lke _Demo_ would be an asset... ExoPlayer supports audio passthrough, and ijkplayer (ffmpeg based) doesn't support it, but, it would take someone with some native skills to do a few tweaks and it would work.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2016, 07:22 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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https://www.walmart.com/ip/Supersoni...Combo/22081667

120 bux.

Details aside, the idea here is that I'm sick of swapping hardware every two years to use SageTV (and the work involved in fooling with yet another piece of new hardware x 4 throughout the house). Additionally, I'm willing to accept that I'm the 'old guy' in the room.

On the other hand, at some point in the future, I believe that folks will quit needing to have a new piece of hardware every two years to make their lives complete.
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  #39  
Old 11-22-2016, 07:33 PM
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tmiranda tmiranda is offline
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I'd like to see one box that was a server and client all in one. Then a new user could just buy one box, plus a HDHomeRun and be in business.
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  #40  
Old 11-22-2016, 08:23 PM
Wayneb Wayneb is offline
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I like the idea of an HD400 extender that is only a SageTV extender, the SageTV remote works better than the remotes that come with most of these Android boxes for one thing.

I had the Nvidia Shield and it choked on stuff even when using Kodi that my cheap little $40 (not including case and power supply) Odroid C2 running Linux based OpenElec plays perfectly, sure it was a high bitrate h.265 4K file but the Amlogic 905 based Odroid C2 played it. I also believe Mpeg2 stuff worked better.

The cheap Android 905 and 912 boxes I have tried recently were loaded with tons of Kodi add ons that can not be legal, one thing I like about the Odroid C2 is that like a Raspberry Pi it has no operating system, you can swap out the micro SD card and change its function in a few seconds, I have run Android on mine to use the Mini Client but Kodi runs better with the Linux based OpenElec.
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