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SageTV Github Development Discussion related to SageTV Open Source Development. Use this forum for development topics about the Open Source versions of SageTV, hosted on Github.

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  #1  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:06 PM
GKenny GKenny is offline
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Is a network encoder a necessity now?

Many people are reporting memory exception problems in v9.12+ now.
I am wondering if all the memory exception problems are related to hardware encoders (Hauppauge Win TV cards). Is anyone having troubles using network encoders (Silicon Dust network tuners)? It may be beyond my ability, but I'm considering developing a network server interface for Hauppauge products. I can see a couple advantages to this - the main one being that it would be a separate process. Is it worth the effort?

Glen
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:14 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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No memory exception problems here - I have two servers running without issues.

My production server is running on unRAID Linux with two Hauppauge HD-PVRs and an HDHR network server - so now Hauppauge cards.

My backup/old server is running Win7 with one HD-PVR and a Hauppauge PCIe WinTV card - something like the 1850 or 2250 that is used for OTA. It also has a composite input that is unused.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:29 PM
btrcp2000 btrcp2000 is online now
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my 1st gen HDHR Dual has been plugged in and functioning since Feb 2007 and never misses a beat (except that it will be dead by the time i get him because i posted this)

this has been across 4 servers ranging from a celeron winxp to my newest unraid. The HDHR just keeps on going.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2017, 05:54 PM
JustFred JustFred is offline
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I've been running 3 "production" Sage servers for anywhere from 3-10 years now (see my sig), plus another 3-5 Sage servers for debug & development purposes. They all run on Windows 7. Never experienced memory exception problems, even with 3 - HD200 extenders. The Hauppauge WinTv tuners and Silicon Dust network tuners have all been rock solid. Ceton PCIe tuners have been reasonably reliable.

On the other hand, the biggest (on-going) source of frustration & unreliability comes from the Hauppauge HD-PVR (and Colossus) capture devices. They frequently tend to lock up and just refuse to capture video. The HD-PVR's cheap wall-warts were replaced with an industrial solution long ago, so that's not the issue. The current bandaid is a nightly power-cycle of the HD-PVRs. It's been an improvement, but far from perfect. Conclusion: it's most likely a Hauppauge driver or firmware issue.

Given the above, I really question whether any "network encoder" which uses the underlying Hauppauge capture drivers would really provide greater overall reliability.

On the other hand, there would be great value in devoting effort to make Sage itself a 64-bit application. That would be the end of all the Java OutOfMemory issues and most spinning-circle-of-death. Confession: despite all the talk of Linux/Docker, I'm still stuck with Windows for the foreseeable future, due to a bunch of other considerations.

My obviously biased option: to extend the life of Sage and attract a wider audience of users, 64-bit Sage for Windows seems inevitable.
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System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB Mem, 2TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2017, 01:46 PM
Rob23 Rob23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFred View Post
On the other hand, there would be great value in devoting effort to make Sage itself a 64-bit application. That would be the end of all the Java OutOfMemory issues and most spinning-circle-of-death. Confession: despite all the talk of Linux/Docker, I'm still stuck with Windows for the foreseeable future, due to a bunch of other considerations.

My obviously biased option: to extend the life of Sage and attract a wider audience of users, 64-bit Sage for Windows seems inevitable.
I couldn't agree more!
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2017, 01:55 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFred View Post
My obviously biased option: to extend the life of Sage and attract a wider audience of users, 64-bit Sage for Windows seems inevitable.
That's what I thought too but I gave up and changed to unRAID Linux for my server.

Sage has been Open Source for 26 months now and no one has shown an interest in taking on this task. Plus it seems like a large number of the active developers are using unRAID Linux (narflex, stuckless, fuzzy, EnterNoEscape).

Not to make you jealous, but...
I have my JVM heap size set to 3GB and I have run over a dozen simultaneously connected miniclients - I turned on all of my extenders and ran Placeshifter on every PC in my house! No JVM heap size issues and I don't think I even used 2GB so I still had 1GB of headroom.
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:18 PM
JustFred JustFred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKenny View Post
I can see a couple advantages to this - the main one being that it would be a separate process.
Glen
Again, assuming the OP's comment is referring to Windows...

The current 32-bit SageTv application itself (including its Java component) is subject to Windows' 3GB max process space. But Windows drivers don't consume any user-memory space; they run within kernel memory space. Making network encoders of all Hauppauge devices would provide almost no reduction to the amount of user memory used by the Sage app.
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2017, 12:33 PM
GKenny GKenny is offline
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Frustration is really setting in now.

Originally, I had a WindowsXP box that ran for years. I upgraded to Windows 7 without problem and ran that for years as well. Eventually gave in to Microsoft and upgraded to Windows 10 and SageTV 9+. SageTV ran fine for over a year. Windows 10 had an update and I upgraded to the most recent SageTV at the time. I can't remember exactly when that happened, but it caused the SageTV Service to crash constantly. I have 4 Hauppauge cards: WinTV-quadHD, 2 WinTV-HVR-2255 and a WinTV-HVR-2250.

This is what I've tried so far:
Complete reinstall of Windows 10 (64bit) / SageTV (9.1.2? & java 8) - keeping only TV video files (no wiz.bin).
Complete reinstall of Windows 7 (64bit) / SageTV (9.1.2? & java 8) - keeping only TV video files (no wiz.bin).
Complete reinstall of Kubuntu 17.04 (64bit & 64bit java 8) / Sage TV (9.1.7.581) - keeping only TV video files (no wiz.bin).

I get similar results with all 3 setups... I can configure everything. It all seems to work as long as nothing is being recorded. I can watch pre-recorded viedo on placeshifter, client or hd300. Once recordings start, the server crashes within about 1-10 minutes. I don't seem to be able to do anything to make it crash immediately.

I am looking for any suggestions at this point.

Thanks,
Glen
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Last edited by GKenny; 10-26-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2017, 06:10 AM
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tmiranda tmiranda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFred View Post
On the other hand, there would be great value in devoting effort to make Sage itself a 64-bit application. That would be the end of all the Java OutOfMemory issues and most spinning-circle-of-death. Confession: despite all the talk of Linux/Docker, I'm still stuck with Windows for the foreseeable future, due to a bunch of other considerations.
I started on porting the native Windows code to 64 bits but got sidetracked and just didn't have the time. It's still on my radar.
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2017, 02:08 PM
wnjj wnjj is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiranda View Post
I started on porting the native Windows code to 64 bits but got sidetracked and just didn't have the time. It's still on my radar.
I am considering diving into it as well but just haven't had the spare time to start. I have Visual Studio but haven't yet built the project since others all got it working. I did have success building the MingW stuff and that should slide into 64-bit easily enough.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:25 PM
JustFred JustFred is offline
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I'll confess to lurking, as far as the 64-bit topic goes. Was hoping to see some signs of interest in others, too. I'm not a Java guy and have been reluctant to launch into this all on my own due to limited knowledge of Win64. But would be willing to contribute to the effort in the native code if someone were to take leadership, set goals and give some specific instructions about what needs to be done.

Time to start a 64-bit dev-team thread?

Anybody else?
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  #12  
Old 10-29-2017, 07:17 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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There have been a number of SageTV projects on Indiegogo. Why not start one for the Windows port to 64 bit?

I would contribute.
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2017, 05:58 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
There have been a number of SageTV projects on Indiegogo. Why not start one for the Windows port to 64 bit?

I would contribute.
Pretty sure the limitation in development right now isn't incentive, it's time.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:28 PM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
Pretty sure the limitation in development right now isn't incentive, it's time.
Correct. I for one, don't need monetary incentives to get this kind of work done. I need time; which I don't have lately.

If someone wants to match my wages at my current day job with benefits, bonuses and yearly raises perpetually, I will gladly quit and start full time SageTV development.
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