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  #21  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:09 AM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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When you set the Westell modem to "Bridge," your old router must be reconnected so that it can be the DHCP provider, assigning IP addresses to all devices that connect. If the DSL connection is PPPoE, you will also need to enter your older router config and set it up for PPPoE, and assign a username and password to access Internet as I recall.

The setup would be:

- Modem plugged into service and power, and set to Bridge mode
- Router plugged into modem (there may be one specific port for this on the modem) and power
- One computer hard wired to router so that you can enter the router's setup screens and make the necessary PPPoE settings if required.

I recall doing something similar for a family member that needed remote access. The DSL provider is sometimes remarkably unhelpful when you explain you want to use your own router instead of the modem's router capabilities, and that extra layer of security with PPPoE is crazy annoying - glad cable modems usually don't do this.

Last edited by KryptoNyte; 03-09-2014 at 10:19 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:28 AM
firenice firenice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
So I followed the instructions on those pages (including the manual). I disabled the DHCP. On the "advanced/WAN/VCs" page, the first item was "Routed IP". I changed that to "Bridge" per the instructions. This caused me to lose my internet connection.

So how does that work? If I set the first "VC" to "Bridge", am I not disabling the modem function?

I reset the modem to factory defaults and am waiting for someone's thoughts....
What type of router do you have? Putting the modem/router in bridge mode will require setup of the existing router to handle the ppoe connection. Then you will have to reboot both.
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2014, 05:28 PM
Dave47 Dave47 is offline
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I'm not sure if this helps in your situation, but I recently had AT&T Uverse installed. They also bring a modem/wireless router that one could use for their whole house. I already had an ASUS RT-N66U that I wanted to continue using. The solution I found was to assign the ASUS to the DMZ on the AT&T router. I also turned off all the wireless stuff on the AT&T router. That has been working well.

I looked up DMZ and Westell and I think I saw links that say it is also possible in your case.

David
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2014, 10:47 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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My router is a TP-Link. I will try to find time one evening this week to get together some screenshots from the config screen. However, I looked at it briefly yesterday and there is an "Quick setup" screen with several buttons to choose. The default (which was selected) was "Auto". One (IIRC) was "PPoE". As Krypto said above, the note after PPoE said I would need an account name and password from my ISP. However, how do I tell whether my DSL connection is PPoE?

Prior to this current modem/router, I just had a plain old modem, and then this TP-Link router. Everything (webserver, PlayOn) just worked right out of the box. Would the old modem have taken care of the DHCP, or would that have been done in the router? I realize now that I never reset/rebooted my router after I tried turning the new modem/router to bridge mode. Is it possible that if I do that (bridge mode) and then reboot the old router with it in "auto" mode, it will do the DHCP setting?
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2014, 01:14 PM
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The easiest way to do it in my opinion would be to turn off the DHCP function, and only use your TP link router as a wireless AP.

Go here to see a walkthru on your TP link router

Then set your port forwards on the Westell modem/router.

Last edited by Ender; 03-10-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-10-2014, 01:27 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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My advice to anyone in a similar situation is to NOT use the combined modem/router (often called a gateway) for anything other than modem functionality. This is done, as many people mentioned above, by putting the device into Bridge mode.

You then plug in your own router to one of the ports on the gateway and do all of the configuration on your own modem.

If you don't do this then the phone/cable company has full control over your LAN including your wifi. This may sound paranoid but someone at the phone/cable company could use this to gain access to your LAN since they will know your wifi password from the gateway's web UI. It also means that they have full control over stuff like Port Forwarding which are necessary for remotely using Placeshifter or the Sage Web UI. I don't want them having control over that!

Buy a good router, like the aforementioned Asus RT-N66U and use that.
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2014, 02:09 PM
Ender Ender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
My advice to anyone in a similar situation is to NOT use the combined modem/router (often called a gateway) for anything other than modem functionality. This is done, as many people mentioned above, by putting the device into Bridge mode.

You then plug in your own router to one of the ports on the gateway and do all of the configuration on your own modem.

If you don't do this then the phone/cable company has full control over your LAN including your wifi. This may sound paranoid but someone at the phone/cable company could use this to gain access to your LAN since they will know your wifi password from the gateway's web UI. It also means that they have full control over stuff like Port Forwarding which are necessary for remotely using Placeshifter or the Sage Web UI. I don't want them having control over that!

Buy a good router, like the aforementioned Asus RT-N66U and use that.
This may be true, but if you change the default passwords, and not use your gateway's wifi, but use the AP's, effectively are you not doing the same thing?

Plus I am not yet that paranoid, close, but not yet. Then there is the simplicity angle, one less point of failure.
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  #28  
Old 03-10-2014, 02:54 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post
This may be true, but if you change the default passwords, and not use your gateway's wifi, but use the AP's, effectively are you not doing the same thing?
But from what you are saying aren't you using your own AP? If so then what is the difference in complexity between adding a router and adding an AP, which is usally a router with a couple of features, like DHCP, turned off? To me one of the bigger issues is that the logical place for your router and cable mode is where the cable/phone enters your house and/or where all of your LAN wiring is terminated. Where I live that is normally in the corner of your basement which is probably the worst place for a WAP.

I don't know that the default password matters so much as you need to be on your LAN or the ISP's backbone to get into your router. I am guessing that the ISP has a way of accessing your gateway even if you change the default username/password combo - as in some sort of backdoor password. And if that is the case then they could always turn that functionality back on. FYI, the default username for my ISP's gateway is 'cusadmin' and the super-secure password is 'password'.

The other issue with using the router functionality of the gateway is that it leaves more things outside of your realm of control. Your ISP could upgrade the firmware of the gateway that could screw up something that you are using. This is less likely to happen if you just use the device as a modem.

A lot of folks may not want to venture into administering their own network, but I am guessing that most of us using Sage are geeks who are comfortable with doing that and used to doing stuff like port forwarding to facilitate using the Sage web browser remotely. One of the things on my to-do list is to get OpenVPN configured on my router. That often requires the installation of third party firmware on your router, like dd-wrt, Tomato or Merlin. You don't want to do that if you don't own the router.

On the other hand if you have a high speed internet you may run into problems if your router can't handle a fast WAN-LAN throughput. I had to upgrade my Asus RT-N16 as it can only handle about 140 Mbps and my internet connection is now faster than that.
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2014, 03:26 PM
firenice firenice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
My router is a TP-Link. I will try to find time one evening this week to get together some screenshots from the config screen. However, I looked at it briefly yesterday and there is an "Quick setup" screen with several buttons to choose. The default (which was selected) was "Auto". One (IIRC) was "PPoE". As Krypto said above, the note after PPoE said I would need an account name and password from my ISP. However, how do I tell whether my DSL connection is PPoE?

Prior to this current modem/router, I just had a plain old modem, and then this TP-Link router. Everything (webserver, PlayOn) just worked right out of the box. Would the old modem have taken care of the DHCP, or would that have been done in the router? I realize now that I never reset/rebooted my router after I tried turning the new modem/router to bridge mode. Is it possible that if I do that (bridge mode) and then reboot the old router with it in "auto" mode, it will do the DHCP setting?
I would do what Wayner suggests and just diable the dhcp on your tp-link router. The wireless would still work. The problem with 2 routers is that you are dealing with 2 seperate firewalls and 2 items attempting to set dhcp.
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  #30  
Old 03-10-2014, 04:38 PM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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I don't think you ever showed a screenshot of the Westell's advanced screen - that is likely where the settings you need are.

Your old setup was as so:
MODEM -> ROUTER/AP/SWITCH -> NETWORK

Your current setup is:
MODEM/ROUTER/AP -> ROUTER/AP/SWITCH -> NETWORK

You have a few options on how to go from here.

1. Disable Router and AP functionality on the Westell:
MODEM -> ROUTER/AP/SWITCH -> NETWORK

2. Disable ROUTER/AP on your router (turning it into just a switch):
MODEM/AP/ROUTER/SWITCH -> SWITCH -> NETWORK (for this to work, your WESTELL will have to be connected to your router's LAN ports, not it's WAN port).

3. Disable AP on the westell, and disable routing on your router:
MODEM/ROUTER -> SWITCH/AP -> NETWORK (again, connection between westell and router needs to be to router's LAN ports)
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  #31  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:20 PM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
My advice to anyone in a similar situation is to NOT use the combined modem/router (often called a gateway) for anything other than modem functionality. This is done, as many people mentioned above, by putting the device into Bridge mode.

You then plug in your own router to one of the ports on the gateway and do all of the configuration on your own modem.

If you don't do this then the phone/cable company has full control over your LAN including your wifi. This may sound paranoid but someone at the phone/cable company could use this to gain access to your LAN since they will know your wifi password from the gateway's web UI. It also means that they have full control over stuff like Port Forwarding which are necessary for remotely using Placeshifter or the Sage Web UI. I don't want them having control over that!

Buy a good router, like the aforementioned Asus RT-N66U and use that.
This is what I'm trying to do, but if you go back earlier you'll see I'm utterly clueless about how to do all this. Pretend I'm your grandmother, that's about the level of explanation I need.

I want to use my gateway (new Westell) as a bridge, as you suggest. The TP-Link that is immediately downstream will be used for my wireless and it has a few hardwired cables plugged to it, most notably my Sage/PlayOn server. One other cable goes to an 8 port switch that handles most items on my Sage network (extenders, HDHRs, etc.). The problem mentioned above is that when I set the Westell to bridge, it killed my internet connection because it (from what I understand?) turned off the DHCP function. So I need to have my TP-Link take over that role, but I don't know whether it needs to be PPoE and if I need to get ID info from my ISP, or whether it might have been as simple as that I should have rebooted the TP-Link once I had the Westell in bridge mode (I didn't try that). Or, if it's some other requirements entirely, for which I would need grandmother-level help.

Unfortunately I have no way to test any suggestions until probably Saturday, as we pretty much have Sage recordings going on weeknights from the time I get home until I go to bed, and I dare not take down the network.
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  #32  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:26 PM
Ender Ender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
But from what you are saying aren't you using your own AP? If so then what is the difference in complexity
Since the op claimed in one of his first posts that he was a bit befuddled by the whole process, the most expedient way to correct the issue is to disable the router's dhcp.

Yes you are right, and if I were in his situation I would bridge it, but I was going for the fastest, and easiest way to fix the issue. But we digress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
On the other hand if you have a high speed internet you may run into problems if your router can't handle a fast WAN-LAN throughput. I had to upgrade my Asus RT-N16 as it can only handle about 140 Mbps and my internet connection is now faster than that.
The only fault with this argument is his internet connection being DSL, probably does not go past 5Mbps down, and 512Kbps up.
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  #33  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:56 PM
Ender Ender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
This is what I'm trying to do, but if you go back earlier you'll see I'm utterly clueless about how to do all this. Pretend I'm your grandmother, that's about the level of explanation I need.

Ok, so Place the modem in bridge mode as previously explained, and turn off wireless (wait, you already did that).

Try one of these guides from TP-Link:

How do I install TP-LINK wireless router to work with DSL Modem (PPPoE)

or

Why can not I access the Internet after connecting the TP-LINK router to my modem

It looks like you would need the user name, and password from your ISP.

Of course with any change upstream from the router, a power cycle is always highly recommended.

Hope this helps.
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  #34  
Old 03-11-2014, 07:34 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post
...his internet connection being DSL, probably does not go past 5Mbps down, and 512Kbps up.
Yeah, I'm on a package supposed to be "up to" 10 down/1 up. I'm getting about 7.5 down and .75 up. We have fiber to our neighborhood front end, but copper from there, and I'm too far from the front end for their FIOS package, but they offered this "intermediate" upgrade package.

Thanks for the links, I will check them out. The problem is going to be getting an ISP customer service rep who understands what the heck I am talking about when I call to ask for my info.
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2014, 06:27 PM
firenice firenice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
Yeah, I'm on a package supposed to be "up to" 10 down/1 up. I'm getting about 7.5 down and .75 up. We have fiber to our neighborhood front end, but copper from there, and I'm too far from the front end for their FIOS package, but they offered this "intermediate" upgrade package.

Thanks for the links, I will check them out. The problem is going to be getting an ISP customer service rep who understands what the heck I am talking about when I call to ask for my info.
pj

This link http://www.tp-link.com/en/article/?faqid=86 is for setting your tp-link router to handle ppoe. As a DSL subscriber this must have been set up on your modem/router.
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  #36  
Old 03-12-2014, 11:18 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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So I called my ISP customer service. The woman tried to be very helpful but I'm afraid I don't really know what I am asking for. What user name and password would they have that I don't have? I didn't know how to describe what I am looking for.

I mentioned PPPoE and she didn't know what that was, but while on the phone, she looked it up. As she did that, she said her supervisor was telling her that the PPPoE was the same as the "VPI/VCI number". They gave me this number as a "#/###". I doubt this is what I need. She also said I could get my SSID # and another number (can't remember what) from the wireless tab in my Westell setup (even though I am not using the wireless). At one point she said "does this have something to do with Port Forwarding?", and I said yes, and she said they do not support that. Though, later, she also said I could go to portforward.com and read about it there....

They do have a "premium tech support" number I can call which will incur a change on my next bill, but before I do that, I need to know exactly how to couch my question. What exactly am I asking for? How would I have a user name and password that I don't even know about? Does every DSL user have this?
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  #37  
Old 03-12-2014, 01:56 PM
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Tiki Tiki is offline
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pjpjpjpj,

Way back in Post #8 you included a bunch of screen shots from your Westell modem config. The first one (called "front.jpg") has some information about your internet (WAN) connection. This appears to be a summary page, though (no place to make changes). Further down on that page is an area labeled "Quick Links", and in there is a link that says "show more information about my internet connection". I think you want to click on that.

When you do, I am guessing you will see some more information such as:
  • Does your internet connection require a login (it may not - my Comcast cable internet connection does not, most old dial-up internet connections like AOL needed a login, I don't know about DSL)?
  • If so, what username / password is used?
  • Does your internet connection use a static or dynamic IP address (probably dynamic)?
  • If static IP, what is the IP address?
  • What is the gateway address?
  • Are the DNS addresses obtained automatically? If not, what are the DNS addresses?
Some of this information is in that summary on the "front" page, but not all. Once you have all that, you should be able to enter that same information into a similar screen in your other router. Then put the modem in bridge mode. Then cycle power to everything (modem, router, and your PC).

What should happen is the modem will connect to your ISP. Once the connection is established, your router should be able to connect through them modem directly to your ISP's gateway. The gateway should give your router a dynamic IP address and DNS address information (or allow your router to work with static IP information). The WAN IP address that your router gets will probably start with 74.215.x.x (based on the information in your screen shot). Your router then runs its owh DHCP service which will assign local IP addresses to everything on your network (these will probably start with 192.168.x.x, but will depend on how you set up your router).
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  #38  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:21 PM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Tiki - when I click that "more info" link, it just flips me to one of the screens under the "Advanced" tab (I'm guessing this is what Fuzzy was referencing above as well). I have attached a screen shot from that page.

Between the front page stuff (attached here again for easier reference) and this page, should I have enough info to set up my router such that the gateway can be set to bridge mode?

Also, I attached screen shots from my TP-Link router setup. The "options" is what shows up under "Quick Setup". Next post includes shots of the ensuing pages from the various options. The "WAN" shot is from the "Network>WAN" menu item on the left.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Adv-Diag-NetworkStats-Summary.JPG (70.2 KB, 119 views)
File Type: jpg Front.JPG (106.9 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg TPLink Options.JPG (54.6 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg TPLink WAN.JPG (68.8 KB, 133 views)
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Last edited by pjpjpjpj; 03-12-2014 at 08:26 PM.
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  #39  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:31 PM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Attached are two screen shots from the TP-Link router "Quick Setup" (see previous post for shot of the options page).

The "PPPoE" option clearly requires a username and password of some sort (what is showing is default that came with the router, I have never touched it). Can you tell from the previous post screen shots whether I have this info (or should use this option)?

The "Quick Setup" and "Dynamic IP" options both take me to the same screen, which is a setup for my home wireless. It doesn't appear there is anything here to set up so it can handle DHCP or PPPoE stuff when I make the gateway a bridge.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Quick-PPPoE.JPG (20.8 KB, 119 views)
File Type: jpg Dynamic IP or Auto-Detect.JPG (50.7 KB, 107 views)
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  #40  
Old 03-12-2014, 09:45 PM
Ender Ender is offline
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In the screenshot labeled Adv-Diag-NetworkStats-Summary, is the wan section a link? If so, click on it to see what you are working with. Then possibly someone could come up with a solution for you.

The next thing I would try, is to put the modem in bridged mode, then go on the TP-Link router, and go to the page that the wan connection type screenshot came from, and try the auto detect. It cannot hurt.
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