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Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

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  #21  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:14 AM
dgeezer dgeezer is offline
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"I have been riding on the freebie - but somewhere got the impression that was only licensed to original buyers of the product from Frey Technologies and not to public domain adopters of Sage.

Wrong, I guess...."

Actually this is correct. I was using my old sage license up until 2 months ago on my unraid server.


You could set up a new unraid server and temporarilly mount the ntfs drives one by one, copy the data off of them and then add each drive to the array. This is going to require some command line work but it's pretty well documented here: https://lime-technology.com/wiki/ind...m_a_NTFS_drive.

However I think that MacDaddy's method of keeping the current SageTV machine intact until you are sure everyting is copied successfully would be safer.



There are a bunch of new terms and jargon associated with unraid such as array, parity,dockers, etc but once you figure it all out, it's actually much easier than trying to do server type things on a windows machine.
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:39 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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I don't know that this will require command line work - just two extra drives. One for parity on the unRAID system and one as your first drive. Then you can mount the unRAID drives in Windows and just use Explorer to copy them over. It won't be that fast but if you aren't in a hurry that isn't a big deal. If you can move things around to free up one drive on your existing system then you may only need one additional drive - but make sure to get a big one for parity - I would get at least a 4TB drive these days.
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Last edited by wayner; 05-09-2017 at 07:11 AM.
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2017, 07:05 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Yeah, wayner's last point is important for building an unRAID server. The Parity drive has to be at least equal to the largest drive in the array; it makes sense to go big on that one, so it's not a complication with future storage expansions.

Regarding getting your data onto unRAID, there are a number of ways to do it. The fastest is probably to use the 'Unassigned Devices' plugin on unRAID to mount the NTFS drives as they are installed in the unRAID server. Then use either the command line, or another file manager app (there is a Midnight Commander app I think, that allows easy semi-graphical file management) to copy the files from the mounted NTFS drive onto the unRAID pool. To do this, you should build your system with at least the parity and one storage drive (big enough to hold the videos on your largest ntfs drive coming over). Once you've copied the files off of the first ntfs drive into the unRAID pool, you can then add that drive to the pool. unRAID will reformat it, and it will add it's capacity to the pool, and you can continue with the next NTFS drive, and so on until all data is copied into the pool, and all former NTFS drives are not XFS drives in the unRAID pool.
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  #24  
Old 05-09-2017, 07:10 AM
KarylFStein KarylFStein is offline
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You could also use the Unassigned Devices plugin and skip the command-line. That plugin allows you to mount a disk (or network share) without adding it to the array from the main administration GUI.

They do not recommend keeping a drive around in NTFS format, though, because I guess writes to NTFS are slow in Linux.

Technically you only need one disk to set up an unRAID system (parity is not required).

If you don't mind your current disks being unavailable for a while, I'd probably get a 3T drive and build unRAID with that as a "pool" drive. Stick in your current 3T drive and mount with Unassigned Devices and copy the data over. Then make the NTFS 3T drive a parity drive. Get a 2-3T drive and do the same with one of your NTFS-formatted 2T drives. Then you'll have space to copy things over from the last 2T drive.

Keep in mind that your parity drive has to be at least as big as the largest drive in your pool. Although a parity drive is not required, it is recommended as it allows you to survive a single disk failure.
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2017, 07:17 AM
MacDaddy MacDaddy is offline
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And while you're getting overwhelmed with advice:-)

A cache drive is your friend as you use unRaid to host applications. And a SSD is your best friend for a cache drive.
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  #26  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:49 PM
egeller egeller is offline
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I agree with much of what is recommended here.

I had my original SageTV setup on Windows 7, then Windows 10, for years. In February I set up a new server and made it an Unraid server, running SageTV, OpenDCT and a Windows 7 VM. Unraid's use of Dockers makes add / running applications easy to figure out and administer.

It all just seems to work, with little complaint or problems. Last week I moved my Plex server to Unraid.

I still need to move Playon to the Windows VM on Unraid. Playon is still running on the original Windows machine. However, Playon is the only thing the original Win10 machine is running. I hate the thought of entering all those passwords again to set up Playon again.

Things to consider:
  • Conversion / cutover is risky. If there is anyway to parallel the new and the old servers you will be happier
  • UnRaid will reformat any current drives you use as part of the filesystem. This means you need to plan out how to get SageTV content to Unraid. I guess you can mount NTFS drives in Unraid and copy them over, but I am not sure, since I did not do it that way.
  • Learn about "parity drives" and "Cache drive(s)" before you jump in the Unraid waters. It is different from Windows. It is not difficult to understand, but it's important.
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  #27  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:06 PM
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panteragstk panteragstk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egeller View Post
I agree with much of what is recommended here.

I had my original SageTV setup on Windows 7, then Windows 10, for years. In February I set up a new server and made it an Unraid server, running SageTV, OpenDCT and a Windows 7 VM. Unraid's use of Dockers makes add / running applications easy to figure out and administer.

It all just seems to work, with little complaint or problems. Last week I moved my Plex server to Unraid.

I still need to move Playon to the Windows VM on Unraid. Playon is still running on the original Windows machine. However, Playon is the only thing the original Win10 machine is running. I hate the thought of entering all those passwords again to set up Playon again.

Things to consider:
  • Conversion / cutover is risky. If there is anyway to parallel the new and the old servers you will be happier
  • UnRaid will reformat any current drives you use as part of the filesystem. This means you need to plan out how to get SageTV content to Unraid. I guess you can mount NTFS drives in Unraid and copy them over, but I am not sure, since I did not do it that way.
  • Learn about "parity drives" and "Cache drive(s)" before you jump in the Unraid waters. It is different from Windows. It is not difficult to understand, but it's important.
Just to let you know you can convert your existing physical machine to a VM without a ton of effort. Not sure if setting up playon is more or less effort, but I converted my windows 2012 r2 server to a VM and never had an issue.
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2017, 06:44 PM
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PeteCress PeteCress is offline
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Not being the brightest bulb on the tree, I was intimidated by UnRaid and wimped out: ordering a NAS instead.

But I am still spun up on the idea of running the Linux version of SageTV on whatever box I come up with as my dedicated Sage box.

Just to make sure:
  • Free access to Zap2It really is going away soon - even for people who own the original Frey Technologies version of SageTV (v7 in my case)?
  • If I move to Linux, it will therefore be a wash: I would have had to start paying for SchedulesDirect anyhow?

Those things being true, does anybody have a recommendation for the most appropriate Linux version? .... I am assuming that SageTV magically appears in various Linux version's "Available Applications" list - or whatever they call it.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:32 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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To be honest the most appropriate version of Linux would be unRAID since that has the most users. Look at the traffic in the unRAID forum vs. the plain Linux forum.

I believe most non-unRAID Linux users would be using Ubuntu.

And yes, free guide access is going away for everyone, even those of us that own V7 or earlier licenses - I think I own three SageTV server licenses.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:13 PM
alfi33 alfi33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
To be honest the most appropriate version of Linux would be unRAID since that has the most users. Look at the traffic in the unRAID forum vs. the plain Linux forum.
Agreed. The SageTV Docker on unRAID is by far the easiest way to run SageTV (on Windows or Linux).
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  #31  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:01 AM
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PeteCress PeteCress is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfi33 View Post
Agreed. The SageTV Docker on unRAID is by far the easiest way to run SageTV (on Windows or Linux).
Well, I guess I'm headead for UnRaid then.

Only thing that was bothering me was that maybe I would be trying to fool Mother Nature by running UnRaid without an array.

OTOH, maybe I need at least a single-drive/array just to store stuff like SageTV.Properties and the other install stuff.... or does that wind up in the System directory?

Maybe I need to stop babbling and just *try* it...... -)
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  #32  
Old 05-12-2017, 09:29 AM
alfi33 alfi33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
Well, I guess I'm headead for UnRaid then.

Only thing that was bothering me was that maybe I would be trying to fool Mother Nature by running UnRaid without an array.

OTOH, maybe I need at least a single-drive/array just to store stuff like SageTV.Properties and the other install stuff.... or does that wind up in the System directory?

Maybe I need to stop babbling and just *try* it...... -)
There are a lot of ways to do it. But I think most folks will have an array of two or more spinning disks. And a cache of 1 or more SSD drives.

The Docker run in an "appdata" directory on the cache drive(s). This is where the SageTV will be installed so your Sage.properties would be here.

You can record directly to your array or you could record to the cache and have unRAID automatically move it for you on a schedule...or I suppose you could keep the recording on your cache drive(s) if you had the space.

It's all fairly easy to get going. If you can set up and run Sage in Windows, chances are really good that you can do it in unRAID. I definitely say it's worth trying if you got a spare PC lying around that you can run the unRAID trial on.
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2017, 09:55 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
Only thing that was bothering me was that maybe I would be trying to fool Mother Nature by running UnRaid without an array.
Why would you not run an array?
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:19 PM
Korny Korny is offline
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is you can run docker with Ubuntu if you want... Honestly I haven't found Sagetv hard to setup in Ubuntu using the debs. I found installing WINE and setting up comskip was harder then installing Sagetv
To each their own I suppose
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:08 PM
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PeteCress PeteCress is offline
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Quote:
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Why would you not run an array?
Got a NAS already.... but it's not a religious issue.... I'll just pop in a couple of old drives.

Having said that, one appeal of no array would be that I could minimize the size of the box.... I don't know the proper names, but I am pretty sure there some *really* small mobos out there. "Micro ATX" ??

The brass ring would be a physically-small box that drew minimum power.

My HD200's max out at about 5 watts.... and often draw only 2-2.5.
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  #36  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:58 PM
jchiso jchiso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
... Having said that, one appeal of no array would be that I could minimize the size of the box.... I don't know the proper names, but I am pretty sure there some *really* small mobos out there. "Micro ATX" ??
It's mini-ITX. These days they are really good platforms for HTPCs, if you get a "gaming" board ...
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  #37  
Old 05-13-2017, 11:19 AM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
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Is there a guide anywhere for setting up the SageTV docker under unRAID?

And are people recording to user share in unRAID or to a drive outside the array? If its the latter, can you have more than one recording drive? And if its the former, do you have problems with, say, 5+ recordings going on at once?
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  #38  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:53 PM
egeller egeller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
Is there a guide anywhere for setting up the SageTV docker under unRAID?
See the subforum under the Linux forum. I think the very first post (oldest) is a guide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
And are people recording to user share in unRAID or to a drive outside the array?
To the Array / User share, usually. The nice thing with Unraid is that, once you get the hang of a few of its unique concepts, it really makes it easy to maintain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
If its the latter, can you have more than one recording drive? And if its the former, do you have problems with, say, 5+ recordings going on at once?
No. At around 11 PM to 1 AM, nightly, I have somewhere between 4 and 10 recordings going. Based on what you are saying, you probably want to get one or two SSD's for use as Cache drives for Unraid. Even though it won't make sense to you right now, "run Unraid's Mover hourly (thanks, Fuzzy) helps." This will make sense as you learn about Cache drives in Unraid.
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  #39  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:59 PM
egeller egeller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
[*]Free access to Zap2It really is going away soon - even for people who own the original Frey Technologies version of SageTV (v7 in my case)?[/LIST]
Did not see an answer to your question.....

Yes, absolutely, EVERYONE loses Zap2It (or whoever they've become) July 1.
See this link

That is why you want to upgrade to V9. It handles Schedules Direct natively. It works. I converted a couple of weeks ago.
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2017, 06:21 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
Got a NAS already.... but it's not a religious issue.... I'll just pop in a couple of old drives.

Having said that, one appeal of no array would be that I could minimize the size of the box.... I don't know the proper names, but I am pretty sure there some *really* small mobos out there. "Micro ATX" ??

The brass ring would be a physically-small box that drew minimum power.

My HD200's max out at about 5 watts.... and often draw only 2-2.5.
You can run unRAID with an 'Array' of one drive, and it will still fully function. That said, Most here would probably believe that once you actually USE unRAID, you will see no compelling reason to run a separate NAS in your home - in which case, you move the data from your old NAS onto the unRAID Array, and then retire the NAS - most likely moving the NAS's drives into unRAID, and adding them to the Array.

You will also - like most other unRAID users - continue to find new uses for the hardware, and be continually amazed at how simple it is to add functionality through Docker.

Something to keep in mind... The size of the box will in no way affect it's power draw. It will, however, affect the ability to expand later. I ended up using a nice tall tower, with 3.5" drive mounts top to bottom. I would do this even if I was only using a mini-ITX board, because the ability to add drives and keep them cool more than trumps the ability to tuck the server into a smaller hidey-hole.
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Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
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Last edited by Fuzzy; 05-15-2017 at 06:25 AM.
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