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Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 10-16-2017, 09:01 AM
raklar raklar is offline
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Recommended HD Recorders

Hi,

I'm looking at upgrading my sagetv box which is still using old SD capture cards with motorolla boxes from shaw in canada

If I upgrade to HD Boxes which I believe are still Motoralla ones from my cable provider, does anyone have a good recommendation for a hd capture device to use with sage? Most reviews and or recommendations I find are well over 5 years old.

I love my sage box and don't want to go with a cable companies PVR as they all kind of suck compared to Sage, but I'm also unsure of how to modernize my sage TV hardware.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2017, 09:24 AM
trk2 trk2 is offline
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I have a Colossus which has never worked as well as I would like. If I was in your situation I would probably be considering the BM3000 which I believe is reviewed in this thread along with the BM1000 variant.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2017, 10:03 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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In Canada we can't get cable cards so that leaves us with having to encode the component or HDMI outputs of cable boxes. I use the Hauppauge HD-PVR which has been around for many years with my Rogers cable boxes. The Colossus is an option but people seem to have more issues with it - and the HD-PVR2 seems to not be as well supported as the original. The other boxes mentioned by trk2 may also work but I don't know how many people have actually used them. Reading that thread it seems like fewer than 10 people have tried them - assuming that they all posted in the thread.
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2017, 02:40 PM
JustFred JustFred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
... the HD-PVR2 seems to not be as well supported as the original.
Can you provide some details about what isn't supported?
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System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2017, 02:52 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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I remember that there were issues with it while Sage was semi-dead. Perhaps they have been resolved, but here is one older thread on the issue: https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58983
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2017, 04:24 PM
JustFred JustFred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
I remember that there were issues with it while Sage was semi-dead. Perhaps they have been resolved, but here is one older thread on the issue: https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58983
Probably should have explained the reason for my interest. I'm in the process of making some fixes to the Sage code for the HD-PVR2. Wanted to know what all needs to be addressed.
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System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2017, 05:04 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFred View Post
Probably should have explained the reason for my interest. I'm in the process of making some fixes to the Sage code for the HD-PVR2. Wanted to know what all needs to be addressed.
Then you likely know better than I. I was just going from memory and I have bought a couple of additional HD-PVRs on ebay and given this thread I decided to stay with the original unit.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:23 PM
raklar raklar is offline
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Yeah, this is exactly why I'm looking for feedback, There's so much old out of date information on HD capture devices, I'm really at a loss on what capture device I should go with and most reviews go by recording gaming sessions now a days and not tv recording, but I suppose as long as I have the IR blaster both should work fairly similarly.

I know at one point apparently firewire recording worked well with my provider, but looking at a few of the threads that's mostly been drm'd.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2017, 08:21 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Firewire recording was always flaky, I really tried it with my Rogers cable boxes when they activated firewire - but I could never get it working consistently. Part of the problem is that the drivers for Windows were never properly written it seems and don't work on 64 bit OSes.

But firewire worked very well for changing channels and I still use it for that. I have used the HD-PVRs for close to a decade and have had very few issues. Recently I do get a few glitches in the recordings where they will skip for a few seconds. I didn't used to get these so I don't know if this is a HD-PVR hardware problem or due to the fact that about 6-9 months ago I switched from Windows 7 to unRAID Linux. The main problems with the HD-PVR were caused by the power supplies crapping out and this continues to be a problem.
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Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:51 AM
egeller egeller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trk2 View Post
If I was in your situation I would probably be considering the BM3000 which I believe is reviewed in this thread along with the BM1000 variant.
I'd add a vote for the BM3000. It encodes the HDMI output and is relatively trouble free. I've had one running since March and I may have had to reboot the thing 2x. I forget if it was more than once. It replaced the HD-PVR I had.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:58 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Where do you buy the BM3000? On AliExpress? I see it there for US$189.
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Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:09 AM
egeller egeller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Where do you buy the BM3000? On AliExpress? I see it there for US$189.
Yep. Note - It ships from China, I recall.
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Server:UnRaid;2x Intel Xeon E5; SuperMicro moboard;Also:BM3000 w/ WMC; 2x Ceton ETH 6; OpenDCT
SageTV Extender:3x HD200 1x HD300 1xFireTV
Sage TV: 9.2, Standard STVi, Comskip Playback, Web Interface, 24 Hour Clock, SRE, Playon
All in lovely Drexel Hill, PA

Last edited by egeller; 10-17-2017 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Correct lousy typing
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:44 AM
sDiesel sDiesel is offline
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i was in the same boat last year when i built my htpc.

all info about hd capture devices were old or vague. i ended up with a hd-pvr since it met my requirements and didn't seem to cause to much trouble(mine works quite well imo, but really what do i know first and only hd box i have).

i think the bm1000 doesn't record 5.1?
bm3000 might do 5.1?
^didn't look into those to much as i, well....was cheap =D
hd-pvr2 had an issue with ac3 which i think has been fixed ( https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...t=61733&page=3 ).
colossus i remember seeing a lot of 'computer needs to be rebooted every 24hrs' - my hd-pvr does this, but usually after a week or two.
hd-pvr i hear issues of power supply problems causing recording errors n the such, im thinking of doing the 5v usb mod at some point.

hd-pvr does what i need for a good price(used), 1080i/720p/480p, ir blaster, and 5.1/2.0 dolby digital(ac3).



bout all i can say a novice to the practice.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:04 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Thanks sDiesel - that's an excellent summary.
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2017, 05:12 AM
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SHS SHS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sDiesel View Post
i think the bm1000 doesn't record 5.1?
bm3000 might do 5.1?
None of them do 5.1 when it come to IPTV device
Oh by the you may hold a bit long there a big surprise coming if all goes well it has todo with another Hauppauge Device

Last edited by SHS; 10-18-2017 at 05:17 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2017, 06:15 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Originally Posted by SHS View Post
Oh by the you may hold a bit long there a big surprise coming if all goes well it has todo with another Hauppauge Device
Any idea what the time frame is?
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2017, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Any idea what the time frame is?
That hard to say but if had guest maybe in next 2 to 4 week
Here little hint it a existing hauppauge hardware that not support in SageTV.
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2017, 06:53 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Not sure if that will help me or not. What I would really like to see is a 4K version of the HD PVR. However I am not sure how it would work since I don't know that you can use anything but HDMI and I would assume that the HDMI is encrypted with HDCP or some similar DRM.

How do these IPTV devices like the BM3000 get around HDCP? Do they break HDCP? Is that why that aren't really sold in the US, because they technically violate the DMCA?
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Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2017, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Not sure if that will help me or not. What I would really like to see is a 4K version of the HD PVR. However I am not sure how it would work since I don't know that you can use anything but HDMI and I would assume that the HDMI is encrypted with HDCP or some similar DRM.

How do these IPTV devices like the BM3000 get around HDCP? Do they break HDCP? Is that why that aren't really sold in the US, because they technically violate the DMCA?
With 4k h265 that not going happing any time soon there still few more years off for that beside that SageTV doesn't even support h265, and there not cheap device just for one device can run up $400+

That right DMCA is US only thing so can't stop them from sell them and shipping them to US one at time so min of those IPTV encoder have HDCP disable and some are enable some have download links where you can update the firmware to have it disable.

HDMI is encrypted can be easy bypass with the right HDMI splitter I even used one with my Colossus 2.

Last edited by SHS; 10-18-2017 at 07:24 AM.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2017, 07:47 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Originally Posted by SHS View Post
With 4k h265 that not going happing any time soon there still few more years off for that beside that SageTV doesn't even support h265, and there not cheap device just for one device can run up $400+
I believe that SageTV will support h265 in client mode or on the Android version (as these devices typically support h265 natively) if you install the correct codecs. See here

And I find it hard to buy the argument that it is too expensive to get 4K video encoders. My understanding with the original HD-PVR is that it uses the same type of encoders used in digital cameras to convert an analog picture into a digital video file since it is doing an analog capture and encoding to an h.264 file.

The HD-PVR was released in May 2008 - almost 10 years ago. Surely 4K (which is really 2160p) encoders today are as available and inexpensive as 1080i/720p encoders were ten years ago. Pretty much all higher end phones in 2017 support 4K video whereas in 2008 HD often wasn't supported. For example the first iPhone to support video recording was the iPhone 3GS (the third version of the iPhone) which was released in 2009 and could record video at only 640x480. The iPhone 7, which is now a year old, supports 4K video.

The only thing which I foresee would cause me to move away from SageTV is the inability to do 4K once this becomes the de facto standard. That is why I am anxiously awaiting developments in this area. I know there are some products that do capture 4K but they are not really for consumers.

And I worry that there really won't be much of a market for capture devices since it seems gaming is where much of the devices are used and newer gaming devices had DVR functionality built-in. A few thousand SageTV and MythTV users isn't enough to support the product. And Hauppauge's financial position would seem to support this as their sales are a fraction of what they used to be the last time I looked at the stock price and their financial statements.
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