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  #1  
Old 01-02-2018, 11:23 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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ATSC 3.0 devices at CES?

The ATSC 3.0 spec was finalized a couple of months ago. I wonder if anyone, especially Silicon Dust, will be coming out with capture devices for ATSC 3.0.

It would be great to see a HDHR that supports ATSC 3.0.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2018, 11:38 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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The bigger question is, are there ever going to be any ATSC 3.0 broadcasts?
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2018, 01:36 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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I believe there are tests already starting in some cities. But given the different rules on spectrum this time around that is a very good question.
Sinclair broadcasting seems to be enthusiastic and they own a lot of stations in the US:
Quote:
ATSC 3.0 will officially transition from broadcast television industry buzzword into a commercial technology in 2018, or at least it will officially begin its journey toward consumers.

When in November the FCC authorized the standard, huge ATSC 3.0 proponent and investor Sinclair Broadcast Group jumped right up and proclaimed its nationwide ambitions for the standards, which include enhanced audio and video quality for OTA broadcasts and interactive features enabled by the IP-based delivery.

"As we have pressed for 20 years, broadcasters and consumers alike deserve the best innovations available. We finally have that ability and are ready to lead an industry in deployment, service offerings, enhancements and business development. We are ‘off the plateau’ and ready to climb the next mountain along with our broadcast brethren, manufacturers, programmers and new business partners, looking down on wondrous new opportunities. There should only be upside for all concerned—including most importantly, the Public!” said Sinclair Executive Chairman David Smith.

I’ll be watching carefully as Sinclair pursues its nationwide deployment of ATSC 3.0 while also tracking a number of other important developments surrounding the technology.

The National Association of Broadcasters and the Consumer Technology Association just kicked off their “living laboratory” ATSC 3.0 test station in Cleveland and it will be fascinating to watch what comes out of those experiments “across a variety of applications and with fixed and mobile receivers in a real-world environment,” according to CTA President and CEO Gary Shapiro.

All the way down in Phoenix, in a much different climate than Cleveland, another impressive group of companies is just getting to work on setting up an ATSC 3.0 model market. E.W. Scripps Company, Fox Television Stations, Meredith Local Media Group, Nexstar Media Group, TEGNA, Telemundo Station Group, Univision Communications, and Pearl TV are working together to prove ATSC 3.0 technology can be deployed while maintaining existing digital TV service for viewers.

This coming year will be an interesting time to watch ATSC 3.0 mature in real-world settings while also watching broadcasters address concerns, like how the changeover might impact consumers and how OTA viewers will adjust to having their data harvesting a la Facebook and Google. — Ben | @fierce_video
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2018, 02:53 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
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This is going to be a really slow rollout. Slow enough that I really wonder how relevant OTA TV is going to be by the time ATSC 3.0 will/could be widespread.

There's no forcing function here. At least for the HD transition, they knew they had to get off analog. In this case, the FCC says they have to continue ATSC 1.0 broadcasts for five years after starting ATSC 3.0.

And, of course, all their equipment is ATSC 1.0 and 1080i/720p. I don't just mean the transmission equipment. There's very little 4k content now, and that's not likely to change for quite some time.

And, as you noted, there are no ATSC 3.0 consumer electronics out there now. Some are being announced, but it probably won't be until 2019 that most new TVs will include an ATSC 3.0 tuner (and maybe that's optimistic).

The long timeline for ATSC 3.0 (and 4k in general) is one the reasons I said Sage wouldn't survive it. Plus, everyone would need new equipment- new tuners, new capture devices, new clients, etc. There's obviously still a few developers doing incredible things with Sage, but momentum is down. There doesn't seem to be critical mass to support anything particularly new. So, when Nvidia stops selling the Shield, what are people going to do for clients?

Admittedly, Sage has survived a lot longer than I expected. But, some of my thinking was based on expectation that decent OTT streaming services would come along ~5 years ago. We're finally seeing some decent OTT services. They all have flaws, but I think they'll keep getting better. At a certain point, I think most of the remaining Sage cable/satellite subscribers will decide to accept commercials for a turn-key solution with modern features that work well (e.g., internet streaming, mobile device support, etc.). Some of the remaining folks may jump ship to Plex (or Tablo) as it gets better. Then there will only be a very small number of people holding on to their Sage systems, likely until something breaks.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:04 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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LG has been selling TVs with ATSC 3.0 tuners for the last year and there have been several channels active for more than six months in SK. I believe the upcoming Olympics in SK next month will be broadcast locally in 4K on ATASC 3.0.

I think ATSC 3.0 is supposed to offer more than just OTA. It is also supposed to offer interactive services and targetted advertising.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2018, 03:37 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
LG has been selling TVs with ATSC 3.0 tuners for the last year and there have been several channels active for more than six months in SK. I believe the upcoming Olympics in SK next month will be broadcast locally in 4K on ATASC 3.0.
In South Korea. I don't think any of the TVs destined for other markets included ATSC 3.0 tuners.

And I think there's a big difference between some sort of (presumably limited) pilot of ATSC 3.0 at a big event where the host country has made it a national priority, and seeing meaningful adoption in the US/Canada.

Deployment is going to be hard here. We don't have the spectrum to give stations new channels for ATSC 3.0, and we don't want to drop ATSC 1.0 since that's what's out there (including all the digital converter boxes that people got coupons for during the transition). The solution seems to be jamming the ATSC 1.0 HD transmission and ATSC 3.0 4k transmission into the same channel (and probably doing away with other subchannels, I imagine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
I think ATSC 3.0 is supposed to offer more than just OTA. It is also supposed to offer interactive services and targetted advertising.
You mean 4k, right? That's certainly true. I just strongly question their ability to monetize those features, and thus their incentive to actually roll out the new technology.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:31 PM
sacrament055 sacrament055 is offline
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Since ATSC 3.0 uses a much more efficient compression technique (believe it's HEVC) you could theoretically host many more channels on the same spectrum. You're not required to broadcast 4k but you could fit more 1080 channels in the same space while not sacrificing the quality.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:35 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Good point especially since ATSC 1.0 uses MPEG-2 which is about 20 years old. I believe that Netflix 4K streams use bandwidth of 15Mbps - that is less than the 19Mbps used by one ATSC 1.0 channel. Presumably you could fit three 1080p channels encoded in HEVC/H.265 into that 19Mbps slot.

The problem is that everyone would need new tuners/boxes to access them.
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:34 PM
bcjenkins bcjenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
In South Korea. I don't think any of the TVs destined for other markets included ATSC 3.0 tuners.

And I think there's a big difference between some sort of (presumably limited) pilot of ATSC 3.0 at a big event where the host country has made it a national priority, and seeing meaningful adoption in the US/Canada.

Deployment is going to be hard here. We don't have the spectrum to give stations new channels for ATSC 3.0, and we don't want to drop ATSC 1.0 since that's what's out there (including all the digital converter boxes that people got coupons for during the transition). The solution seems to be jamming the ATSC 1.0 HD transmission and ATSC 3.0 4k transmission into the same channel (and probably doing away with other subchannels, I imagine).

You mean 4k, right? That's certainly true. I just strongly question their ability to monetize those features, and thus their incentive to actually roll out the new technology.
Land mass, what a buzz kill..

Quote:
That's about 20% the size of California (423,970 square kilometers). All of South Korea would fit in the area between Los Angeles and San Francisco.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2018, 07:59 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacrament055 View Post
Since ATSC 3.0 uses a much more efficient compression technique (believe it's HEVC) you could theoretically host many more channels on the same spectrum. You're not required to broadcast 4k but you could fit more 1080 channels in the same space while not sacrificing the quality.
You could, but remember, broadcasters will still need to simulcast an ATSC 1.0 compliant signal for five years after starting ATSC 3.0. And they'll need to do this in the same channel as the ATSC 3.0 signal.

I don't think we'll see broadcasters meaningfully adopt ATSC 3.0 until there's a critical mass of compatible tuners out there in the deployed base. And that's going to take a long time.
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