SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > Hardware Support > Hardware Support

Notices

Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-22-2009, 05:04 PM
HDMission HDMission is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 28
Unhappy Getting Started on HD Server.

I want to build “server” for my TVs (2 of them) and I think SageTV is what I need to run this. I have tried my best to educate myself on this forum and find my answers and I am now at the point when I have to start asking questions of those with experience.

Disclaimer - I have to admit that I know what I want but I don’t know if it is possible. So if I ask for something that is impossible or silly, please go easy on me.

Now being an engineer (unfortunately not an EE, CS or CE) I had to form a plan:

1. Explain what I want the server to do.
2. Identify the best (most cost effective) service providers (OTA & Dish) and the best equipment to go with their equipment.
3. Ask for help.
4. Take a stab at the equipment needed OS, mother board, memory, etc...
5. Ask for help.

I have a home PC that I will use to do all of my heavy lifting stuff, editing home video, pictures, etc, I would then transfer the files to the server. I am looking for the server to:
- Store video & play them back
- Receive & serve OTA local HD channels (I’m trying to avoid the $5/monthly from sat providers)
- Receive & serve Dish Network Turbo HD Silver
- Be a DVR for OTA Digital/HD Local Channels and my Satellite Provider

Basic Network Set-Up (My first crack)
- Home Computer – wired to gigabit switch
- Modem & Router – wired to gigabit switch
- “Server” – wired to gigabit switch
Incoming Services connected to the “Server”
- OTA Antenna (see thoughts below)
- Dish Receivers (see thoughts below)
- SageTV HD Theater (for TV #1) – wired to gigabit switch
- SageTV HD Theater (for TV #2) – wired to gigabit switch

OTA Digital/HD channels – I plan on getting an antenna. (haven’t researched that yet any suggestions would be great for the Chicago area) Since I could be watching local channels on 2 TVs and may want to record another, what is the best way to set this up? I was looking at the WinTV products and started to get lost. Again, looking to view/record the highest resolution possible.

Dish Network HD – I am considering Dish Network because their Turbo HD Silver is the best cost around. (I have had Dish for 5 years and don’t mind the occasional outage from extreme weather but with the above OTA I hope to at least be able to watch the news.) I want to watch or record the highest possible resolution, preferably 1080i. I would prefer to keep the number of Dish HD tuners to a minimum (if possible) since they stick you with $7/month for each additional tuner beyond the 1st one. I read that there are issues with Dish’s dual tuners. I wanted to avoid Dish’s PVRs because of the monthly fee and I would be using the “server” as a central DVR. My goal is HD 1080i, should I be still considering Dish, if so what hardware. (my other providers available in order of $$ preference are Direct TV, ATT Uvers, Comcast)

I hope some people can help me out. This post is getting way too long so lets start with this.

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-22-2009, 05:14 PM
w84no1 w84no1 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 43
I would recommend the HDHR for OTA, 2 HDPVRs and 2 dish 211 boxes if you are going to stay with dish. There is no need for a dish dvr as sage will be doing all the recording.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-22-2009, 07:22 PM
nick_l's Avatar
nick_l nick_l is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pgh, PA
Posts: 257
tuners

IMO,

by far the best OTA tuner is the silicondust HDHomerun. Many people here use it with very good results. It is a network tuner (meaning you can put it anywhere on your network, it communicates to the server via ethernet). It is also a dual tuner so it will record two programs at once. I am not the person to give you advice on antennas, but Im sure someone else will advise.

If you want to record HD from Satelite, encripted cable, FIOS tv, etc, you have one choice, the Hauppage HD pvr. This is an analog capture device that connects to the component outputs on your service provider's "box" and captures/encodes the stream. The device includes an ir blaster to contol the channel on your dish box. You will need one of these setups (sat box, HDpvr, ir blaster) for each channel you want to record/watch live concurrently.

Hope this gets you started,
Nick

P.s. Technically, I lied. There is one other way to capture HD content from certain providers. There is a company (Nextcom, I think) that will "customize" your existing sat box or cable box and thus allow you to directly capture the HD stream. This device will only work with some boxes and is a little pricy, but if you are interested, I'm sure someone who is using it will be happy to give you more info.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-22-2009, 08:18 PM
SWKerr SWKerr is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,178
First thing you need to decide what kind of device you want to connect to your TV. You have two basic options here. A Sage Extender ($200) or a HTPC ($300-500). Both have pros and cons any you can find plenty of post arguing this in detail. I know you indicated you intend to purchase the Extender but I wanted to make sure you had considered the pros and cos of both options.

Extender: The extenders are small, quiet and energy efficient. They are also generally viewed as easier to setup. The negative is mainly that you do not have a internet browser and therefore no access to a lot of online TV services. (Hulu may be coming soon.) The other limitation is is its lack of BluRay support although it is relatively simply to rip these and play back the movie only file on the extender.

HTPC: The HTPC gives better flexibility then the Extender mainly due to the Browser and BluRay support but it is definitely more expensive and more complicated to setup. The other issue with an HTPC build is noise and heat. These are both manageable but must be considered.

I would personally want to keep at least one TV with a HTPC just for the Online content. It is unlikely Sage will be able to support everything unless the content providers change their strategy significantly.

Tuners:
You want one two at a time ATSC (OTA)tuner and probably one HD-PVR plugged into you Satellite or Cable box. You may need another HD-PVR and Satellite box depending on your viewing habits. This setup would allow you to record two network shows at once plus anything on extended Cable\Satellite. Since most shows on cable channels tend to be broadcast multiple time in a day or week having the occasional conflict is not a problem since it will be able to record later.

HD-PVR ($200): The only game in town for HD recording from a Cable or Satellite box. YOu will need to be certain that the Cable\Satellite has composite output (Red\Blue\Green).
ATSC\OTA Options:
Option1 OTA Tuner: SiliconDust HDHomeRun $160
Option2 OTA Tuner: Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 (without remote) $110

If you have broadband through cable you may not need an antenna since the local channels are probably unencrypted on you cable feed. The kind of antenna depends on your area. antennaweb.org will give you some feedback on what you need. If you stations are in all directions you may need a different antenna than if you need distant stations all in the same direction. If you post you distance and direction challenges I am sure someone can make a recommendation.

WHS: I run a 1.8ghz Core duo that is a few years old on my server and have no problems at all. I am running comskip on HD-PVR files and the commercial skip seems always to be ready when I want to watch them except for the news and sports. I am not expecting them to be ready immediately after the show so they could still be running in the middle of the night I really don't know. If you want to have the comskip files ready immediately after the show is done even if you are recording two or three at a time then you will definitely need more CPU then say the cheaper dual cores.

I would expect that the only real need for the quad core would be if you want to run Placeshifter transcoding HD-PVR files.

I would go with a low end AMD X2 myself and spend the extra cash on more hard drives space but it would depend on your priorities and you budget. If I was going to spend money on a quad core I would want it as my desktop. If you do go with a dual core be sure to pick a motherboard that is compatible with a reasonably recent quad core. They will be cheap by Christmas if you want to upgrade then. Just about all the AMD boards will support the new X4 but with Intel it is more complicated.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-22-2009, 10:39 PM
Slipshod's Avatar
Slipshod Slipshod is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWKerr View Post
HD-PVR ($200): The only game in town for HD recording from a Cable or Satellite box. YOu will need to be certain that the Cable\Satellite has composite output (Red\Blue\Green).
I think you meant "Component", not "Composite". Composite is the single RCA cable, generally with yellow colored plug.

To OP:
I started with 2 R5000 modded VIP-211 boxes on Dish Network. After I added the HDHR, I found that I almost never have a conflict on Dish, and I watch a whole lot of TV. I'm grandfathered in on their old "HD Absolute" package, which is a steal at $29/month.

I'd personally go for the HDHR over a PCI tuner. Easier to integrate, and you have a whole lot more flexibility in where you can place it (you can have it close to the antenna to minimize cable loss). Sometimes you can find them on sale for around $130 too.

The R5000 is a bit expensive and ties you to one specific satellite box, so I'd suggest going with the Hauppage HD-PVR unless you really want to spend the money for the best possible video quality at the smallest possible file sizes. Also, the latest Dish HD single-tuner box (the VIP-211k) doesn't work with the R5000. You have to use a plain VIP-211 (no "k").

If I were starting from scratch in your situation I'd probably get:

An HP mediasmart server w/ WHS (if you can be patient with comskip processing time and don't want to run anything else serious on the server)
* EX470 refurbs available from the HP store for $379, but you'd need to install more RAM (only has 512MB) and possibly a better CPU.
* EX485 (new) is $550, and has enough RAM (2GB) and CPU (2GHz Celeron) already, and comes with a 750GB drive instead of a 500GB one.

HD Homerun ($130-150)
HD-PVR ($200)
Leased Dish network VIP-211k (should be free setup)
WD 1TB Caviar Green (~$90-110 depending on sales)
SageTV bundled w/ HD-200 ($250?)
A second HD-200 ($200)

Not exactly cheap when you add it all up, but it'll be the best damn media server you can put together for that price. And it'll backup you home PC automatically overnight too!
__________________
SageTV V7 (WHS), Diamond UI
Server: WHS with Xeon X3350, 4GB ECC, ASUS P5BV-C/4L, recording into a 6.6TB Drive pool
Tuners: 4 (2x HDHR)
Clients: 2x HD300, 1x HD200 Extenders, 1x Placeshifter
2x Roku XD
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-22-2009, 11:17 PM
davephan's Avatar
davephan davephan is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,911
The HDHomeRun dual tuner unit is great for the local over the air channels. You will only need one unit, unless you want to record more than two local channels at once.

Do the TV stations all broadcast from the same area in Chicago? If they all broadcast from the same area, you only need one antenna, and can use a simple antenna splitter in front of our HDHomeRun unit(s).

Dual network cards would be helpful if you use more than one HDHomeRun unit, to take their Eithernet consumption off your main network.

If you stay with Dish Network, you don't have to subscribe to the 'local' channels. If you had DirecTV, locals are included at no extra charge. DirecTV also combines Starz and Encore, Dish Network sells them separately.

You did not mention your specification for you SageTV computer. I recommend a fast dual-core, or quad-core. You can always use extra CPU power to record multiple programs at once, run comskip or showanalyzer to eliminate commercials, and compress video files - all which consume CPU resources. You should also start with 2 gigs of RAM.

You will also need enough disk space. SD consumes about 3 gigs per hour, HD consumes about 7 - 8 gigs per hour. If you compress the video files, you can shrink the video files down to about 20% - 30% of the original size. Separate video drives or an array are best, formatted with 64K blocks. I started with a few hundred gigs, now I have 4 TB. It is pretty easy to fill up terabytes, unless you delete a lot of video files.

You also need to have a backup/recovery plan for your boot drive, such as disk imaging. If you don't own a disk imaging product, you can use PING, which is free. You can then take periodic images, stored on another hard drive. If you have problems with your boot drive, you can recover the SageTV computer quickly to a point-in-time before the problem occurred.


Dave
__________________
SageTV: LIAN LI PC-K58, Gigabyte GA-EX580UD5, i-7 950 3.06 gig quad LGA 1366 CPU, Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler 1366 bracket, Memory 24 gigs GB, PNY NVIDIA GeoForce 9800 GT 1024 MB, Corsair 750w PSU, Samsung 500GB SSD boot, 3 SSD recording drives
Capture cards: 2 - HDHR Primes - Comcast Xfinity CableTV
Extenders: 1-HD-300, 2-HD-200
Software: Windows 7 Pro X64, Ghost 15, VideoReDo TVSuite 4 h.264, Playon (Netflix), OpenDCT
UnRAID File Server 4.7 Pro: Lian-Li PC-G70B, MBD-X8SIL-F-O, i3-540, 16 TB
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-23-2009, 07:02 AM
SWKerr SWKerr is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,178
My mistake. Yes "Component", not "Composite"

I have DirecTV and have been very pleased. One plus on the DirecTV side is that there tuners do support the ability to change channels with a direct connection via the USB\Serial port. This is a nice to have since IR will still work with just about anything. I would probably put more weight on the cost of the packages. I switched because at the time I did the HD switch Dish had a few of the channels I wanted in these special add on packs so DirecTV ended up being cheaper. There was also a deal with the phone company with an additional discount on DirecTV going through them.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-23-2009, 12:32 PM
Slipshod's Avatar
Slipshod Slipshod is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWKerr View Post
My mistake. Yes "Component", not "Composite"

I have DirecTV and have been very pleased. One plus on the DirecTV side is that there tuners do support the ability to change channels with a direct connection via the USB\Serial port. This is a nice to have since IR will still work with just about anything. I would probably put more weight on the cost of the packages. I switched because at the time I did the HD switch Dish had a few of the channels I wanted in these special add on packs so DirecTV ended up being cheaper. There was also a deal with the phone company with an additional discount on DirecTV going through them.
Direct TV also has one other nice advantage in that the STBs have a "Native Passthrough" mode where it will output the original signal instead of upscaling/deinterlacing it. I don't have an HD-PVR, so I don't know for sure they take advantage of it, but the potential is there.

Dish does have cheaper packages though.

Money aside, I think Dish is better served with an R5000, and Direct with the HD-PVR.
__________________
SageTV V7 (WHS), Diamond UI
Server: WHS with Xeon X3350, 4GB ECC, ASUS P5BV-C/4L, recording into a 6.6TB Drive pool
Tuners: 4 (2x HDHR)
Clients: 2x HD300, 1x HD200 Extenders, 1x Placeshifter
2x Roku XD
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-23-2009, 10:59 PM
HDMission HDMission is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 28
Red face It is getting clearer now....

Thanks for the input everyone, it is helping alot. I think I am making progress here but I have a few more questions.

Decisions Made
Going with 2 Dish 211 Tuners and 2 HD-PVRs.
Going with OTA locals and will get an antenna….but see first questions below.

Questions:
I was looking install a WinTV HVR-2250 for the OTAs on the server but I read the post recommending the HDHR. Are there drawbacks to the 2250 that I should consider the HDHR? If the HDHR is easier to install, more flexible and doesn’t tax the server I will pay the extra $$, advice?

I plan on using the HD Theater Extenders (I don’t need my TVs to do internet stuff). I have read on the forum about remote lag/delay up to 13 seconds through the extenders. Is this really an issue? How do I minimize any type of delay when using remotes?

I will be getting a remote with the HD PVRs and the HD Theaters. I am assuming I only be using the HD Theater remotes and they will handle controling everything throught the extender, ie server content and live satellite via the HD-PVR/IR Blaster, correct?

Last thing on the HD-PVR, I was reading the specs over and over on the Hauppauge site. At no point did it mention that it could stream live tv, or play live tv. I assume (since everyone else uses this) that it operates as a tuner card and the server + SageTV provides the live tv to the extender. Am I close on this?

Server Set-up
I am going to see what I can put together for a rig, gotta go shopping on the web. I am going to use all of your initial suggestions for some guidance. When I get the details I put up a post for some constructive criticism.

Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-24-2009, 04:53 PM
Djc208's Avatar
Djc208 Djc208 is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Virginia
Posts: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMission View Post
Questions:
I was looking install a WinTV HVR-2250 for the OTAs on the server but I read the post recommending the HDHR. Are there drawbacks to the 2250 that I should consider the HDHR? If the HDHR is easier to install, more flexible and doesn’t tax the server I will pay the extra $$, advice?
The HDHR is more flexable in that the two tuners can be attached to different sources. For instance you could have one connected to cable for clear QAM since it's usually a more stable signal. While the other tuner was connected to an antenna for those OTA channels you don't get via cable. Reports say the tuners are more robust as well.

However it's another box that has to plugged in and kept somewhere vice the 2250 which lives in and is powered by the PC. The HDHR also runs off the network, so it can cause issues depending on the speed and usage of your network, though rare. The 2250 has one input that's split between the two tuners so it may be easier in your application as you'd only need one cable line from the antenna.

As all the OTA HD is digital neither device does any processing of the signal. Just transmits it to the computer to be saved to the HDD.

Quote:
I plan on using the HD Theater Extenders (I don’t need my TVs to do internet stuff). I have read on the forum about remote lag/delay up to 13 seconds through the extenders. Is this really an issue? How do I minimize any type of delay when using remotes?
Do you mean startup lag as the extender boots? The simplest solution would be to leave it on. Otherwise there is no delay while using it for the most part.

Quote:
I will be getting a remote with the HD PVRs and the HD Theaters. I am assuming I only be using the HD Theater remotes and they will handle controling everything throught the extender, ie server content and live satellite via the HD-PVR/IR Blaster, correct?
You will use the remotes with the extenders to control SageTV. However you will not be able to use the IR Blaster to control your sat boxes through the HD PVRs. The Hauppage software only supports one IR Blaster per machine (stupid, I know). So you cannot use the IR Blaster with two HD PVRs as Sage will not be able to control each one seperately. You'll want to look at another control option for the sat boxes (USB UIRT, firewire, serial control etc).

Quote:
Last thing on the HD-PVR, I was reading the specs over and over on the Hauppauge site. At no point did it mention that it could stream live tv, or play live tv. I assume (since everyone else uses this) that it operates as a tuner card and the server + SageTV provides the live tv to the extender. Am I close on this?
Correct. Sage isn't really playing "live" TV. It's recording the signal from the HD PVR and playing it back almost simultaneously. There is a slight lag vice watching it directly. The playback will look fine, it will just take a few more seconds to change channels.
__________________
Server: Core 2 Duo E4200 2 GB RAM, nVidia 6200LE, 480 GB in pool, 500GB WHS backup drive, 1x750 GB & 1x1TB Sage drives, Hauppage HVR-1600, HD PVR, Windows Home Server SP2
Media center: 46" Samsung DLP, HD-100 extender.
Gaming: Intel Core2 Duo E7300, 4GB RAM, ATI HD3870, Intel X-25M G2 80GB SSD, 200 & 120 GB HDD, 23" Dell LCD, Windows 7 Home Premium.
Laptop: HP dm3z, AMD (1.6 GHz) 4 GB RAM, 60 GB OCZ SSD, AMD HD3200 graphics, 13.3" widescreen LCD, Windows 7 x64/Sage placeshifter.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-24-2009, 06:47 PM
SWKerr SWKerr is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,178
I have a HDHR and tried quite a few others before settling on it. The main reason is that it appears to handle multi-path issues better than any other tuner I have tried. I used the Hauppauge 1600 and was better than most with my multi-path problem but not as good as the HDHR.

Multi-path is a problem where the signal from the TV tower gets reflected off of some object and arrives at the antenna a fraction of a second after the true signal. The tuner gets confused but the competing signals and will not playback correctly. In the old days this was snow. You probably will not have to deal with this issue but it depends largely on your location. In my case I live in a location that is surrounded by tall trees. Some people have problems with tall building or hills. A highly directional antenna will help with this by accepting sign from a narrow angle but this may be a problem if you have stations in may directions. The best way to know if this might be an issue is to ask a neighbor that has an antenna or just buy and experiment. If you have a multi-path issue I would definitely recommend the HDHR and a Yagi antenna.

I had never heard Djc208's input about the inputs but that could be a limitation depending on you areas. In my setup I have two different antennas plugged into the HDHR. One is used for two stations and the other is setup for the others. An omnidirectional antenna and the 2250 would probably be fine in most situations but you probably have to buy it to find out.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:15 PM
HDMission HDMission is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 28
Smile Almost there...I think.

Ok I think I have it together. Below is the server components that I am looking at.

I realize this will have a little more through put than may be necessary, but for the extra $200 that I might be spending on the motherboard, processor and memory I thought it might be worth it.

Basically the wife gave me an open checkbook but my conscience won’t let me get too crazy, I need you guys to ground me in what is really necessary. I’m looking for honest feedback, if I am way over engineering this server let me know where and any alternate suggestions you may have.

Server
Cooler Master RC-810 (Already have it)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P ATX Intel $114
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.4GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core $164
Corsair Dominator 4GB (2x2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM $ 59
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1TB 3.5” Sata 3.0Gb/s (x3) $299
WinTV-HVR-2250 $109
Windows Home Server OS $100
Sony DVD WR/R Drive (have it don't remember name)
(Power supply TBD)

Quick Questions:
I thought I would use my home PC to set up the server (since I do not have graphic capability on the server) is this possible?

Should I think about having a smaller dedicated Hard Drive (500GB or so) just for the OS and SageTV and two 1 TB drives for the Pool?

If I am asked to cut costs by the boss (my wife) can I start with one 1TB, partition it for the OS and the server Pool?

Incoming sources to my Server
My home PC
Dish Network 211k Tuners (x2) via Hauppauge HD PVR (x2)
OTA Antenna

Server Outputs to:
SageTV HD Theatre (HD200) (x2)
D-Link DGS-2208

As always, much appreciated with the guidance.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:31 PM
S_M_E S_M_E is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMission View Post
I thought I would use my home PC to set up the server (since I do not have graphic capability on the server) is this possible
You must have a video card for the install, after that (if the server will boot without it) you can configure it remotely.



Quote:
Should I think about having a smaller dedicated Hard Drive (500GB or so) just for the OS and SageTV and two 1 TB drives for the Pool?
I wouldn't use above 500G (even then I'd stretch the C partition) for the system drive on a multi-drive WHS.




Quote:
If I am asked to cut costs by the boss (my wife) can I start with one 1TB, partition it for the OS and the server Pool?
The system drive is automatically partitioned with a 20G partition for C and the rest going to D, which is part of the pool. The C partition can be stretched (I have a tutorial for that) at install time but not after. I'd go with a 500G system drive (stretched) and one 1T drive in the pool if saving ~100 bucks will help. You can use a single 1T drive if you wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:36 PM
HDMission HDMission is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 28
Clarification if you could

Need a little clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djc208 View Post
Do you mean startup lag as the extender boots? The simplest solution would be to leave it on. Otherwise there is no delay while using it for the most part..
The lag I was refereing to was the lag to change channels and other functions with a remote through the extender. From what I read it sounded like there is some delay, a couple seconds, but I did read a post that claimed 13 seconds. If there is a way to minimize this I would love to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djc208 View Post
You will use the remotes with the extenders to control SageTV. However you will not be able to use the IR Blaster to control your sat boxes through the HD PVRs. The Hauppage software only supports one IR Blaster per machine (stupid, I know). So you cannot use the IR Blaster with two HD PVRs as Sage will not be able to control each one seperately. You'll want to look at another control option for the sat boxes (USB UIRT, firewire, serial control etc).
Does the fact that I have two HD-PVRs (1 IR blaster per Dish 211k reciever) solve this issues?

or

Is it since I have 2 HD-PVRs, the the Hauppage software will never know what HD-PVR/IR Blaster to send the command to.

If it is the later, how do I get more details on the USB UIRT option, the Dish 211k only has a USB Port. http://www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/hd/default.aspx#

Anything will help. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:54 PM
paulbeers paulbeers is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,550
There is some delay. But for the most part it is just a few seconds. I have never seen 13 seconds. I use a Dish Network VIP211 that is setup to output at 1080i for all channels and my lag is about a 2 seconds. If you use a variable output (not sure if Dish Boxes can even do variable output), then you need to add about a 3-4 second lag to the channel changing (so that the HDPVR can set itself on the right resolution) which then does increase your lag time to about 6. Like I said, if you just use a fixed output, then this is not an issue.

I have a vIP211 (not a VIP211K), but last I knew the only way to tune Dish boxes is to use an IR blaster of some sort. Unforunately the drivers for the IR blasters that come with ANY hauppauge device is not capable of handling multiple IR Blasters. You will need to use a USB-UIRT to control multiple Dish Boxes or only do 1 and use the IR blaster from Hauppauge. I have my VIP211 and 2 311's and I use one USB-UIRT for all 3 boxes (Dish allows you to set each box to a different IR code so it makes setup a breeze!).

Sage also natively supports the USB-UIRT so setup is nice and easy....
__________________
Sage Server: AMD Athlon II 630, Asrock 785G motherboard, 3GB of RAM, 500GB OS HD in RAID 1 and 2 - 750GB Recording Drives, HDHomerun, Avermedia HD Duet & 2-HDPVRs, and 9.0TB storage in RAID 5 via Dell Perc 5i for DVD storage
Source: Clear QAM and OTA for locals, 2-DishNetwork VIP211's
Clients: 2 Sage HD300's, 2 Sage HD200's, 2 Sage HD100's, 1 MediaMVP, and 1 Placeshifter
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-25-2009, 03:09 PM
Djc208's Avatar
Djc208 Djc208 is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Virginia
Posts: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMission View Post
The lag I was refereing to was the lag to change channels and other functions with a remote through the extender. From what I read it sounded like there is some delay, a couple seconds, but I did read a post that claimed 13 seconds. If there is a way to minimize this I would love to know.
As Paulbeers said that delay in changing channels is worst with the HD-PVR. I know with my setup through a cable box it's about 5 seconds or so for the video, but because I'm recording via SPDIF to get 5.1ch sound it can take another 5 or so seconds for the sound to come in. I can't confirm the aspect ratio fix solution as my box doesn't allow it. However since I almost never watch live TV from Sage I never really have to deal with it.

Quote:
Does the fact that I have two HD-PVRs (1 IR blaster per Dish 211k reciever) solve this issues?

or

Is it since I have 2 HD-PVRs, the the Hauppage software will never know what HD-PVR/IR Blaster to send the command to.
The second one is your problem. The software doesn't know there are two, so it can't control each seperately. My HVR-1600 can run an IR blaster but I don't use it. So I had to install the HD PVR in a sertain sequence so the software would find the HD PVR blaster and not the 1600.

Quote:
If it is the later, how do I get more details on the USB UIRT option, the Dish 211k only has a USB Port. http://www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/hd/default.aspx#

Anything will help. Thanks.
I don't use it but you'd find a wealth of info searching the forum. You can also start here http://www.usbuirt.com/
__________________
Server: Core 2 Duo E4200 2 GB RAM, nVidia 6200LE, 480 GB in pool, 500GB WHS backup drive, 1x750 GB & 1x1TB Sage drives, Hauppage HVR-1600, HD PVR, Windows Home Server SP2
Media center: 46" Samsung DLP, HD-100 extender.
Gaming: Intel Core2 Duo E7300, 4GB RAM, ATI HD3870, Intel X-25M G2 80GB SSD, 200 & 120 GB HDD, 23" Dell LCD, Windows 7 Home Premium.
Laptop: HP dm3z, AMD (1.6 GHz) 4 GB RAM, 60 GB OCZ SSD, AMD HD3200 graphics, 13.3" widescreen LCD, Windows 7 x64/Sage placeshifter.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-25-2009, 10:57 PM
Slipshod's Avatar
Slipshod Slipshod is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMission View Post
Basically the wife gave me an open checkbook but my conscience won’t let me get too crazy, I need you guys to ground me in what is really necessary. I’m looking for honest feedback, if I am way over engineering this server let me know where and any alternate suggestions you may have.
Not that it would save much money, but the RAM is overkill. 2GB is fine if all you're doing is normal WHS functions + Sage + Comskip. The processor is a little high, but I tend to think you should err a little on the high side for servers anyway - replacing the CPU later is a pain.

Are you sure you'll need two Dish receivers & HD-PVRs? That's the biggest overkill I see. Most cable shows are repeated a LOT, so Sage easily reconciles conflicts. Unless Dish penalizes you for adding another leased Vip-211k later, I'd start with one and see how it goes. Easier IR setup too.

It'll be a rocking setup for you. The Live-TV channel changing delay sucks, but that's only when you start up a new live-TV feed on a channel. The rest of the interface will be snappy and playing back recorded TV will work great.
__________________
SageTV V7 (WHS), Diamond UI
Server: WHS with Xeon X3350, 4GB ECC, ASUS P5BV-C/4L, recording into a 6.6TB Drive pool
Tuners: 4 (2x HDHR)
Clients: 2x HD300, 1x HD200 Extenders, 1x Placeshifter
2x Roku XD
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:37 AM
HDMission HDMission is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbeers View Post

I have a vIP211 (not a VIP211K), but last I knew the only way to tune Dish boxes is to use an IR blaster of some sort. Unforunately the drivers for the IR blasters that come with ANY hauppauge device is not capable of handling multiple IR Blasters. You will need to use a USB-UIRT to control multiple Dish Boxes or only do 1 and use the IR blaster from Hauppauge. I have my VIP211 and 2 311's and I use one USB-UIRT for all 3 boxes (Dish allows you to set each box to a different IR code so it makes setup a breeze!).

Sage also natively supports the USB-UIRT so setup is nice and easy....
paulbeers,
I am getting in the last of my components and I am searching for the USB-UIRT that you mentioned. I am finding multiple places to buy the IR Blaster (the simple USB cord with IR blaster at the end) Is there a quality level I should be looking for or a suggested manufacture with a good history?

You mention that you use one USB-UIRT (I assume you meant one USB cord with IR Blaster at the end) for your three boxes, can you describe the set-up for that? I am a little bit of a novice if you couldn't tell and some direction would help.

You mentioned that the Hauppauge driver will not cut it beyond 1 sat. receiver. So, for my next step I have to go and find a driver? Any suggestions here?

Thanks everyone so far things are coming together. I am sure I will have more questions but your help has been great.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:16 PM
davephan's Avatar
davephan davephan is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,911
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMission View Post
Ok I think I have it together. Below is the server components that I am looking at.

Server
Cooler Master RC-810 (Already have it)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P ATX Intel $114
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.4GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core $164
Corsair Dominator 4GB (2x2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM $ 59
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1TB 3.5” Sata 3.0Gb/s (x3) $299
WinTV-HVR-2250 $109
Windows Home Server OS $100
Sony DVD WR/R Drive (have it don't remember name)
(Power supply TBD)
The Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P mainboard looks like a great choice. It has built-in RAID, can accept 8 SATA drives, has 8 USB ports, has dual 10/100/1000 built-in NICS, and can accept faster DDR2 memory. The price is pretty cheap with the $20 rebate on the mainboard. The only downside with the mainboard is it has only two PCI slots.

The fast dual-core is a good choice too. You might consider the Q9650 3.0 gig quad-core if you can spend more ($325) on the CPU. It looks like the 3.0 gig quad-core really came down in price recently. The fast multi-core CPUs really helps for compressing video files and processing files with Comskip.

I also think you could run at 2 gigs memory, but your getting the 4 gigs memory pretty cheap with a $20 rebate.

I would recommend setting up a separate, smaller hard drive the OS, maybe about a 120 - 160 gigs, and dedicate the 1 TB drives for file storage formatted at 64k blocks.

Make sure to check for any firmware updates with the Seagate 1 TB drives. I have Segate 1.0 and 1.5 TB drives, they work great, and mine did not need the firmware updates.

Dave
__________________
SageTV: LIAN LI PC-K58, Gigabyte GA-EX580UD5, i-7 950 3.06 gig quad LGA 1366 CPU, Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler 1366 bracket, Memory 24 gigs GB, PNY NVIDIA GeoForce 9800 GT 1024 MB, Corsair 750w PSU, Samsung 500GB SSD boot, 3 SSD recording drives
Capture cards: 2 - HDHR Primes - Comcast Xfinity CableTV
Extenders: 1-HD-300, 2-HD-200
Software: Windows 7 Pro X64, Ghost 15, VideoReDo TVSuite 4 h.264, Playon (Netflix), OpenDCT
UnRAID File Server 4.7 Pro: Lian-Li PC-G70B, MBD-X8SIL-F-O, i3-540, 16 TB
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-07-2009, 01:26 PM
S_M_E S_M_E is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 908
If you go with WHS, save yourself the trouble and don't use the built-in RAID, just use the ports.

I would take a slower quad core over a faster dual core any day.

I would keep all of the storage in the WHS pool, although I would still suggest 64K clusters.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just getting started. Need help bullgates SageTV Software 0 11-02-2006 11:21 PM
Trying to get started...Help please? Md500 SageTV Software 4 02-07-2005 08:12 PM
Getting Started... Lonc_25 SageTV Software 3 12-06-2004 03:56 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.