SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:09 PM
unkyjoe's Avatar
unkyjoe unkyjoe is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seguin TX
Posts: 221
My HD Future

Greetings all,

I have become obsessed lately with figuring out how I am going to do HD in the future.

I have invested much time and effort in SageTv, we love it and cant live without it. So there is the problem.

I currently use DirecTV as my content provider, we have two SD receivers feeding oour whole house AV system.

We also have a DirecTV HD PVR to record some shows in HD that we watch in the dedicated HT which is also the only HD display we currently have.

At some point I will be replacing the main TV in the living room with a PlasmaHD display.

There is the problem, the only way I can see in the future to record the HD programming that DTV offers is by using thier DVR as I see no plans on DTV releasing a HD Sage compatible card for the PC.

The only other way I can forsee being able to record HD from DTV is to find a PVR board similar to the 150 with Component Video in. The only problem then is controlling the HD receiver from DTV.

What are you folks with DTV planning to do to overcome this problem in the future. I can live with SD for a few years, hopefully DTV is not getting rid of it anytime soon as they are not subject to the HD mandate as are the networks, but at some point I would imagine they will start offering some stations in HD only.

Tell me what you think! Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:20 PM
dan596 dan596 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NH
Posts: 13
another HD future

I second this what to do about HD post. Infact I've held off the HD move until I can see a solution with SageTV that isn't Over-the-air. As it is I can only receive one OTA HD signal anyway.

Anyone have news on HD tuner cards?? Component-in cards?? Anyone have a line on why it is taking the tuner card shops so long to solve this when DirectTV, Tivo, etc have been able to tune and record HD for over a year?

I have to believe Gates has MS on a MCE directed solution...anyone with news there? I can't imagine Gates wanting to be behind the curve on this one.

I saw a post with nice pictures of a SageTV HD Extender.....was that some kind of April fool's joke? I'd upgrade to one in a second, but no HD signal to extend.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:24 PM
btrcp2000 btrcp2000 is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 877
SMarter people than I will chime in here, but as i understand it, with Directv, you're out of luck for sage purposes. You can switch to Dish and get an r5000 setup from nextcomwireless (pricy but it works). I am fortunate for the moment to have firewire tuners that have not yet been shut off by Time Warner, so I am getting all the premium channels through sage. Firewire tuners are not the easiest to setup, but after a lot of late nights, it is one of the more stable parts of my system. Now that i've said that, somewhere a Time Warner tech is flipping the 5c switch on me. When that happens (not if, but when) I will either add a dish tuner with r5000 or have nextcom modify a cable box.
__________________
[size=1]Current Server:V9 UNRAID Docker, SuperMicro x9dri-LNF4+, 32 GB ECC, 2x Xeon e5-2660v2, storage array 6TB, 2 Dish r5000HD tuners, 1 HDHomerun Quatro, 1 HDHomerun Extend
4 Nvidia Shield TVs with Miniclient
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:04 PM
Fuzzy's Avatar
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jurupa Valley, CA
Posts: 9,957
btrcp2000 is correct, in that directv users are out of luck. Do not blame the tuner companies for the lack of a working solution though. The HDHomeRun can record QAM cable broadcasts perfectly, if the cable company allows them. Unfortunately, they encrypt the signals, so that it can't be done. There are also DBS tuner cards available, but again, are restricted to unencrypted signals. Blame the providers, not the hardware.

There is the CabelCard route, but you are stuck wiht having to get a prebuilt machine (expensive) and are stuck with MCE.

It looks like the best option for now is the Dish Network w/R5000 mod. I'll be switching to that as soon as my budget allows. Just having one of them with a couple SD boxes would probably be fine, as the odds of needing to record multiple HD programs off the sat will be minimal for the near future. (especially if you have a couple OTA tuners to get the broadcast stuff).

HD capture cards are available, but VERY pricey. an Hd capable real-time MPEG-2 encoder is not a cheap processor, and that is what is required to get the HD in from component/DVI/HDMI.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer)

unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers.
Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA.
Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:50 AM
davefred99 davefred99 is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 158
I want more than just HD Locals and the R5000 is to darn expensive.

I am in the same camp. I get most of my programming from Direct TV.I do have basic cable too and can capture the HD locals with my HDHR, but thats just not good enough for me anymore. So I recently added a DTV HD DVR in my TV room were I do most of my viewing. I have looked into the Dish or cable R5000 mod but find it cost prohibitive since I would need at least two and I don't think it will be a viable long term option anyways. Sooner or later they will shut that down and we will be back to trying something else.
I am hopeful that DTV will follow through with a much rumored option of allowing media sharing of video content on local networked HD Dvr's. If that materializes then I will be fairly content even though it would be more restrictive than Sage TV. There is always the hope that DTV will come out with a PCI DTV tunercard that would work with Sage but it would likely require upgrading to Vista.
So where does that leave me now. Well I will continue to use Sage some but most of my HD viewing will be off of my DTV HD DVR and there is lots of it available now.
__________________
Server:
SageTv 7.19, XPpro
AMD XP-M 2400 45w@2.2GHZ, 1Gig Ram NF7-S ver2
Seasonic S-12 380w, NEC 3520a Onboard SoundStorm S/PDIF out
WD-Caviar 120GB IDE (System) Seagate (3) Baracuda 250GB sata (Pooled)
GF-7600gs Forceware 93.71 Nvida-Decoder V.4.02.223HDHR-Prime 3-Digital Fios ,HDhomeRun-Qam/FIOS
Clients:GA-MA78GM-S2H -AMD 4800- Sage TV Client-FireFly Remote - Amd x2 Turino LAPTOP - HD-100 + MVP Client DVR Verizon Fios/ B]
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:41 AM
dan596 dan596 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NH
Posts: 13
Thumbs up Great Info - I hope Sage is listening

Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming. I've learned a lot I didn't know about already.

I haven't reached 'power-user' status yet (that is to say I'm still working to understand and utilize the powerful customibility of SageTV and all the more technical and settings mods you all often speak of.) and value the contributions of all of you.

I hope SageTV is listening because for the more novice user, it is a general solution from them that will be the easiest to accept and move to. The site needs a section where the SageTV execs/engineers can provide candid updates (let's saying monthly) on what they are working on and the future as they see it. I imagine this kind of stuff can probably be found in the forum, but to the average consumer coming the SageTV site with hopes to buy...they aren't liking to dig into the forum...they need something presented up front. Given the HD future, SageTV needs to be making clear statements about how they will address it or lose many sales. All the converts I try to bring in get blocked right at the HD question.

That comment goes for the Tuner Card manufacturers too. I know it is not their fault for the encryption blocks they need to deal with, but in the end it is they that need to work with the Cable/Satellite Companies to come up with a solution that they can market to the masses and keep selling. With digital broadcasting as the U.S. standard around the corner, none of them will stay in business long on their current offerings. Even if a PCI card that you can plug a cable card into came out for $500-$1000 it would be a place to start.

I've already started my web searches, but to those of you with the know...can you provide some worthy links to info for us novices to study up on? Anything pointing to reliable info on: R5000, DTV rumors, available HD capture cards (i.e something that takes component/DVI/HDMI in), Firewire solutions, QAM definition, etc.

Thanks again all!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:42 AM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan596 View Post
I hope SageTV is listening because for the more novice user, it is a general solution from them that will be the easiest to accept and move to. The site needs a section where the SageTV execs/engineers can provide candid updates (let's saying monthly) on what they are working on and the future as they see it. I imagine this kind of stuff can probably be found in the forum, but to the average consumer coming the SageTV site with hopes to buy...they aren't liking to dig into the forum...they need something presented up front. Given the HD future, SageTV needs to be making clear statements about how they will address it or lose many sales. All the converts I try to bring in get blocked right at the HD question.

That comment goes for the Tuner Card manufacturers too. I know it is not their fault for the encryption blocks they need to deal with, but in the end it is they that need to work with the Cable/Satellite Companies to come up with a solution that they can market to the masses and keep selling. With digital broadcasting as the U.S. standard around the corner, none of them will stay in business long on their current offerings. Even if a PCI card that you can plug a cable card into came out for $500-$1000 it would be a place to start.

Problem is, it's really the legislators in this country that need to do something. Washington keeps bending over backwards for the content creators (Hollywood) and completely destroying fair use. So I think we should be arguing with them.

The tuner card companies, Sage and the others can't afford to get into a fight with content companies, nor can they jump on the existing CableCard bandwagon, since it is tied to the PC. They're stuck.

Unfortunately, we are really a tiny spec of a group. There really aren't that many of us HTPC'ers out there. If the general public really knew how hard it is to record HD content we might be hearing a lot more noise. But then again, they just pay for those crappy cable DVRs and never know any different.

Damn frustrating isn't it?

I'm getting close to giving up completely and getting a DTV DVR or something. Don't want to. But I get so frustrated by HD content coming fast and furious and no way to record it. And in my house, a combination of DVRs will never fly.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:30 AM
Fuzzy's Avatar
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jurupa Valley, CA
Posts: 9,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan596 View Post
That comment goes for the Tuner Card manufacturers too. I know it is not their fault for the encryption blocks they need to deal with, but in the end it is they that need to work with the Cable/Satellite Companies to come up with a solution that they can market to the masses and keep selling. With digital broadcasting as the U.S. standard around the corner, none of them will stay in business long on their current offerings. Even if a PCI card that you can plug a cable card into came out for $500-$1000 it would be a place to start.
The tuner companies have all done this already. Just about everyone who makes a tuner card, makes an ATSC tuner card. This fully meets the 2009 Digital Broadcast mandate. The mandate applies only to OTA Broadcast television, which i working flawlessly in Sage and all other HTPC PVR software suites.

There are PCI CableCard cards available also, but only bundled in ready built machines, with locked BIOS's. This limits their use to MCE, which has the DRM capabilities, and the financial muscle to make CableLabs allow it in the first place. CableLabs will never allow a capture card that will just work with any software, because they can't guarantee that the file isn't copiable.

{sarcasm} You have to realize that, if anyone ever gets the capability to make a perfect capture of HD material, it will instantly result in the internet being saturated with pirated material, and everyone will cancel their cable service, and get all their TV pirated from the internet, causing all cable companies to go out of business, resulting in no more advertising, which would result in a complete collapse of the economy, and the downfall of society as a whole.{/sarcasm}
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer)

unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers.
Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA.
Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:24 PM
Djc208's Avatar
Djc208 Djc208 is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Virginia
Posts: 674
Post

The strange part is I think it's more the cable and satalite companies right now more than the network people. After all most of us get the major networks in HD with no restrictions either over the air or from the cable company.
The cable and satalite companies are the ones extremely picky about how you get your content. Their equipment, rented not purchased, from them. Even if you get firewire working they can enable the 5C encryption and make it all useless.

The DRM issue has a long fight ahead of it. People here tend to be ahead of the curve but eventually as all these electronic devices do a better job of working together people are going to be less inclined to deal with crappy DRM schemes that don't let them move their media around with them.
And while Sage and it's siblings may not be a big force in the market, companies like Microsoft and Apple also want similar content freedom. After all Microsoft want's to sell you a Vista PC, XBox360, a Zune, and a Windows Mobil phone. It's a great selling point that you can record a TV show or download a song with the PC and watch it on any of the other devices, and they'll work to make sure that can happen.

The sad part is that these media companies are only starting to realize that the easier it is to have and access your media, the more media you want available to access. This will work for them if they let it work.

Just had to go and get me started oh well it's kind of like talking about the government they're not in it to fix everything, then we wouldn't need them any more.
__________________
Server: Core 2 Duo E4200 2 GB RAM, nVidia 6200LE, 480 GB in pool, 500GB WHS backup drive, 1x750 GB & 1x1TB Sage drives, Hauppage HVR-1600, HD PVR, Windows Home Server SP2
Media center: 46" Samsung DLP, HD-100 extender.
Gaming: Intel Core2 Duo E7300, 4GB RAM, ATI HD3870, Intel X-25M G2 80GB SSD, 200 & 120 GB HDD, 23" Dell LCD, Windows 7 Home Premium.
Laptop: HP dm3z, AMD (1.6 GHz) 4 GB RAM, 60 GB OCZ SSD, AMD HD3200 graphics, 13.3" widescreen LCD, Windows 7 x64/Sage placeshifter.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:17 PM
domc domc is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 192
I will be holding out till the last minute but if there is no solution I will probably go to a Dishnetwork HD dvr.

I've got a Plasma TV and watch HD and I'm not totally convinced about HD. The compression that Cable and Sat companies put on there channels is depressing. Not everything on an HD channel is in HD too. Some programs are just "digital". I'm not impressed.

I feel the only reason the gov't is pushing HD is so that the entertainment industry can use there DRM crap on everything we watch. Make you pay for things three times over for the same content and more. If it get's really bad, I'll just cancel the sat box and watch DVD's every night.


Is is still possible to record an HD program with and SD box and still watch it?
__________________
Thanks,
Dom
www.domanddonna.com
SageTV 4.1 / JVC Analog TV 27"/ 2.93G speed Computer/ 512mb Ram/ Pvr-150 / 45 Hauppage remote / Verto GeForce FX 5500 128mb svideo out/ Dishnetwork 501 box/VideoRedo Plus/ShowAnalyzer/DVDStyler Free Mpeg to Dvd recorder

Last edited by domc; 11-28-2007 at 08:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:26 PM
jpwegas jpwegas is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by unkyjoe View Post
Greetings all,

I have become obsessed lately with figuring out how I am going to do HD in the future.
I have been researching this recently as well. The lack of options is frustrating, but in general there are a limited number of shows that I watch that are in HD anyway. I am going to wait to see how things play out for now, and be happy with the clear QAM HD channels I do get (just the local broadcasts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkyjoe View Post
The only other way I can forsee being able to record HD from DTV is to find a PVR board similar to the 150 with Component Video in. The only problem then is controlling the HD receiver from DTV.
The problem is that no one makes such a card at the consumer price level. You can get one that's targeted toward the professional market but it's in the $2000 range.

In addition, I believe that some equipment (I don't know if satellite and cable boxes do this) won't necessarily output the maximum resolution signal out it's component outputs, it's downscaled to stop you from doing what you suggest.

stanger89 had a really good post on this whole market realities about this sort of card. It's a long post worth reading, but the part I'm specifically referring to is the section that starts "I really don't think it's about getting sued".

--John
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:59 AM
Djc208's Avatar
Djc208 Djc208 is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Virginia
Posts: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by domc View Post
I feel the only reason the gov't is pushing HD is so that the entertainment industry can use there DRM crap on everything we watch. Make you pay for things three times over for the same content and more. If it get's really bad, I'll just cancel the sat box and watch DVD's every night.
Technically the government isn't mandating high definition programming, just digital broadcasts. Many of my local stations are available OTA in both, and even though I normally only watch the HD version, all the local news casts and even some other network programming is still SD so I get the "reverse letterbox" bars.

The reason the government wants digital OTA is that the digital signals use much less bandwith than analog, so they can then shrink the broadcasting frequencies and sell off the excess to some other area, like this auction that Google and everyone else was fussing about a while back.
__________________
Server: Core 2 Duo E4200 2 GB RAM, nVidia 6200LE, 480 GB in pool, 500GB WHS backup drive, 1x750 GB & 1x1TB Sage drives, Hauppage HVR-1600, HD PVR, Windows Home Server SP2
Media center: 46" Samsung DLP, HD-100 extender.
Gaming: Intel Core2 Duo E7300, 4GB RAM, ATI HD3870, Intel X-25M G2 80GB SSD, 200 & 120 GB HDD, 23" Dell LCD, Windows 7 Home Premium.
Laptop: HP dm3z, AMD (1.6 GHz) 4 GB RAM, 60 GB OCZ SSD, AMD HD3200 graphics, 13.3" widescreen LCD, Windows 7 x64/Sage placeshifter.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:49 PM
mistergq's Avatar
mistergq mistergq is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 743
my wife and i will be purchasing a house in 2008. At that time, we are planning on switching to Dish Network and begin the R5000 process. It is pricey, but at least there is a solution to keep a PVR going. I was worried I was going to have to switch to Tivo or cable/satellite DVR solution.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:04 PM
gblinckmann's Avatar
gblinckmann gblinckmann is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 127
Question Possible way to get HD Cable into Sage

Has anybody seen this article? ... <snip> ...

Edit: Yes, it was already posted here and here. This post & the replies to it were moved to the first thread. -Opus4
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HD Homerun Recording High CPU Usage smarty Hardware Support 6 10-18-2007 05:31 AM
Can't decide on HD source? akenis Hardware Support 20 05-23-2007 07:07 PM
Multiple HD recording issue ptaylor Hardware Support 0 02-23-2007 11:10 PM
Set HD preferences for a specific show? bwillet SageTV Software 1 02-19-2007 01:42 PM
In search of HD quality playback garyellis SageTV Software 0 01-27-2007 09:15 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.