SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-02-2018, 08:52 AM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpwegas View Post
Reggie,
I live in the western DC suburbs (Loudoun) and set up an antenna (ClearStream 4MAX) in the attic pointing generally northeast into a line of trees and I still get 67 channels with my Quatro. Even a few Baltimore stations. You might be surprised how well the attic antenna works.

--John
I purchased this antenna;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/

and for a test, I temporarily attached it to the ceiling in the second story, pointing through a wall at about a 60 degree angle to the wall, pointing directly towards all the PTA broadcast towers in one area of the city exactly 25 miles away as the crow flies. Out of about 30 stations, I got 2 or 3 reliably (I was using an original HDHomerun, the beige one, watching the signal levels as I rotated the antenna). I live in an older neighborhood with plenty of trees taller than all the homes, but no real topography between here and the towers.

I unhooked the RCA antenna and hooked up an old rabbit ears and was able to get 2 or 3 stations, about the same. It surprised me just how bad the RCA directional antenna was. Do you think that the extra 5 feet of height and attic mounting (only sheathing and shingles to pass thru) might resolve this issue? After such poor second story performance, I was thinking it wasn't worth crawling up into the attic to even try.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-02-2018, 09:27 AM
JustFred JustFred is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, Ca
Posts: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
I purchased this antenna;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/
and for a test, I temporarily attached it to the ceiling in the second story
The type of construction of the building can drastically affect the results of any antenna mounted indoors. For example, stucco walls with underlying "chicken wire" is probably the worst, since the chicken wire effectively creates a Faraday cage, blocking most TV signals. The best test will be to temporarily mount the antenna outdoors, even if it means running the coax thru a window.

Hard to find definitive specs on that antenna, but it appears to offer only 5db gain on VHF high-band, which isn't a lot. Length and type of coax (RG59 vs RG6) will introduce some signal loss. Details matter.
__________________
System #1: Win7-64, Core2-Quad Q9400, 8 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HDHR-US (1st gen white) tuners. HD-200.
System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB Mem, 2TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-02-2018, 09:56 AM
SHS's Avatar
SHS SHS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vinita, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
I purchased this antenna;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/

and for a test, I temporarily attached it to the ceiling in the second story, pointing through a wall at about a 60 degree angle to the wall, pointing directly towards all the PTA broadcast towers in one area of the city exactly 25 miles away as the crow flies. Out of about 30 stations, I got 2 or 3 reliably (I was using an original HDHomerun, the beige one, watching the signal levels as I rotated the antenna). I live in an older neighborhood with plenty of trees taller than all the homes, but no real topography between here and the towers.

I unhooked the RCA antenna and hooked up an old rabbit ears and was able to get 2 or 3 stations, about the same. It surprised me just how bad the RCA directional antenna was. Do you think that the extra 5 feet of height and attic mounting (only sheathing and shingles to pass thru) might resolve this issue? After such poor second story performance, I was thinking it wasn't worth crawling up into the attic to even try.
The problem is really a just short range outdoor antenna good for at must maybe 10 mile and not very good antenna as it lack the element count for both VHF and UHF.
Personal I think antenna is spec for 50 mile the is really half that in mile like 25miles from your house going in each direction north to south or west to east depend which way you are point it making 50 mile circle but back side of directional antenna automatic loss about 70% which way you can't up any channel from let you TV stations are in west to east at very same distant like in my cast so I want pull them stations from the east I have put up 2nd Channel Master Advantage CM3020 and point to the east
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:56 AM
JustFred JustFred is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, Ca
Posts: 429
When it comes to choosing an antenna, there's no need to guess. Use a tool like:
https://antennaweb.org/Address

This one takes a lot of factors into account, including terrain, distance, curvature of the earth, etc. It assumes an outdoor-mounted antenna.
__________________
System #1: Win7-64, Core2-Quad Q9400, 8 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HDHR-US (1st gen white) tuners. HD-200.
System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB Mem, 2TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-02-2018, 12:09 PM
SHS's Avatar
SHS SHS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vinita, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by will View Post
I went a similar route this summer. I finally got rid of cable after Spectrum started encrypting the OTA ClearQAM channels - that was just the final straw.

But I just can't part with SageTV yet, too much time and money invested, and honestly, I like SageTV a lot! So I use OTA with a HDHomeRun Connect Quatro and I created a way to integrate Philo directly into SageTV with a Roku Streaming Stick, a custom guide, a HD PVR 60, and a custom batch tuning script I created that communicates with the Roku via the local web API. In the guide, when I select a channel, like Science (136), the EXEMultiTunerPlugin sends the tuner and channel as a parameter to my batch script which then looks up some codes in a CSV file and instructs the Roku to load the content.

After some initial hiccups everything works very well and I really like Philo - I actually now get channels I want to watch, like AHC, Science, etc. - channels I could only previously get with the top-of-the-line cable package.

Basically, everything is working the same as it did when I had cable, just I'm only paying $45/month for internet now and $20 for Philio vs the $150 I was paying for TV/internet.

Also, if you still have a login to a cable subscriber's account, like your parents, you can also setup live streaming/recording of other channels like FX, FXX, National Geographic, TBS, TNT, etc. I think all the cable channels have an app for Roku but not all of them support live streaming, for example, USA and SyFy don't have live streams.

Overall, after the switch, I get more channels that I want to watch, I pay less than half the price, and the quality is very good (though only stereo audio w/the HD PVR 60).
So will are you willing share that stuff
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-02-2018, 02:03 PM
jpwegas jpwegas is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
I purchased this antenna;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/

and for a test, I temporarily attached it to the ceiling in the second story, pointing through a wall at about a 60 degree angle to the wall, pointing directly towards all the PTA broadcast towers in one area of the city exactly 25 miles away as the crow flies. Out of about 30 stations, I got 2 or 3 reliably (I was using an original HDHomerun, the beige one, watching the signal levels as I rotated the antenna). I live in an older neighborhood with plenty of trees taller than all the homes, but no real topography between here and the towers.

I unhooked the RCA antenna and hooked up an old rabbit ears and was able to get 2 or 3 stations, about the same. It surprised me just how bad the RCA directional antenna was. Do you think that the extra 5 feet of height and attic mounting (only sheathing and shingles to pass thru) might resolve this issue? After such poor second story performance, I was thinking it wasn't worth crawling up into the attic to even try.
I doubt the extra 5 feet height would make much difference, but depending on the house construction, the materials that the signal is going through might.

You could try just running a cable to the antenna outside at ground level and rerun the same test as you did with the antenna on the second floor inside. If more channels are available, it's likely house materials.

I used antennaweb.org and antennasdirect.com to decide which antenna to buy. I can't easily mount the antenna outdoors and a large directional antenna doesn't fit well because of how the framing is, so the 4MAX seemed like a good fit and it has been working well.

--John
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-03-2018, 10:07 AM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpwegas View Post
Reggie,
I live in the western DC suburbs (Loudoun) and set up an antenna (ClearStream 4MAX) in the attic pointing generally northeast into a line of trees and I still get 67 channels with my Quatro. Even a few Baltimore stations. You might be surprised how well the attic antenna works.
My problem is really with the VHF channels- WJLA and and WUSA. Do those come in OK? I was looking at the ClearStream antennas, but they don't have a lot of gain in the VHF range.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:12 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFred View Post
When it comes to choosing an antenna, there's no need to guess. Use a tool like:
https://antennaweb.org/Address

This one takes a lot of factors into account, including terrain, distance, curvature of the earth, etc. It assumes an outdoor-mounted antenna.
Thanks. Unfortunately they appear to be out of all the recommended antennas for my scenario. I'll have to try back later.

It's a bummer the cable company charges $25/month for the locals. If it were $10 or $15, I might consider it.

What is the difference between VHF and UHF these days? Is there still some kind of cutoff on channel 13 or have we moved beyond that?

Last edited by KryptoNyte; 12-03-2018 at 06:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:13 PM
SHS's Avatar
SHS SHS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vinita, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Thanks. Unfortunately they appear to be out of all the recommended antennas for my scenario. I'll have to try back later.

It's a bummer the cable company charges $25/month for the locals. If it were $10 or $15, I might consider it.
I know when at one time it was free
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:37 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post
I know when at one time it was free
Technically it was never free from the cable company perspective, but I understand what you are saying.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:24 PM
SHS's Avatar
SHS SHS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vinita, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Technically it was never free from the cable company perspective, but I understand what you are saying.

LoL did forget FFC rule on OpenQAM it was before they change it and started the DRM carp on low channel unlike the upper channel above 100 which we couldn't tuner to any way
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-03-2018, 10:11 PM
jpwegas jpwegas is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
My problem is really with the VHF channels- WJLA and and WUSA. Do those come in OK? I was looking at the ClearStream antennas, but they don't have a lot of gain in the VHF range.
Both WJLA and WUSA come in good. We record multiple things on WUSA and WUSA each week and I've never had any issues. We're about 23 miles from the transmitter for those two.

--John
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:16 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,152
I ended up purchasing one of these at the local Walmart;

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ClearStre...enna/444526031

I thought it was multi-directional, but I misread that claim, and in their instructions they even say to point it in the direction of the towers.

I can get about 70% of the channels (of the towers in one major city) quite well in just one position in a 2nd floor room, so I'm hoping that once I get it up in the attic that it will be closer to 100%. It's clearly not a distance issue, so there must be some interference with the remaining 30%, walls and such.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-02-2019, 11:19 AM
SHS's Avatar
SHS SHS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vinita, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
I ended up purchasing one of these at the local Walmart;

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ClearStre...enna/444526031

I thought it was multi-directional, but I misread that claim, and in their instructions they even say to point it in the direction of the towers.

I can get about 70% of the channels (of the towers in one major city) quite well in just one position in a 2nd floor room, so I'm hoping that once I get it up in the attic that it will be closer to 100%. It's clearly not a distance issue, so there must be some interference with the remaining 30%, walls and such.
That why it always good idea to have it on side at the highest point even if it on the roof pike of the eave with eave mount.
Little note about multi-directional is face is the same directional between each other so another words if one face north and other one is facing with in 30 degree angle north-east you can split the difference at round 15 degree angle then there are omni-directional that cover 360 degree they work ok I don't recommend them as they only work best in really flat land or high up above 20' or more clear of any tree and a directional will still out perform it.
In case I think the DB8e would have been a better option two panels to turn in different directions make it better true multi-directional antenna coving both Baltimore and Washington that if your antenna is high enough.
70% is not to bad.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-08-2019, 12:16 PM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,068
Coming in late but a couple of thoughts:
1. Have you tried making your own antenna (DB8 or Gray-Hoverman)? I made mine out of some spare 12ga copper from some leftover Romex. I have a DB8 aimed one direction (which basically works bi-directionally), and I have a unidirectional Gray-Hoverman aimed the opposite direction (I used metal grid from a yaffa-block-type shelving system to create a reflector screen). Both are in my attic, about 5 feet apart. The DB8 gets all my locals, ~14 mi. away, without a hiccup and gets another city in the opposite direction, ~35 mi. away, reasonably well. But since the DB8 was not safely reliable on that farther city, I removed those channels from my lineup on that tuner and added the G-H to pick up channels exclusively from the other city. Those channels come in completely reliably from 35 miles away.

2. Remember amplified antennas amplify everything from the point of amplification, including noise. Always better to shorten the coax run as a first option. My solution was to get two HDHRs and put them in a hall closet, directly below the antennas. I added a receptacle up high in the back of the closet and a small shelf just big enough to hold the two of them. So the coax is like 5 feet from one antenna and 7 feet from another, and once you hit the HDHRs, then you are just running CAT cable with no loss concerns (and I ran mine down inside wall stud spaces being used as return shafts, then carved a hole in the sheetmetal in the basement and pulled them through).

Just a couple of thoughts. When I got into the whole OTA antenna thing a decade ago, I learned that antennas are weird science for sure. Someone above said moving it 5 feet probably wouldn't change much, but I've seen moving an antenna 3 inches make major differences. And rotating it about 5 degrees as well. It's a trial-and-error process for sure.
__________________
Server: AMD Athlon II x4 635 2.9GHz, 8 Gb RAM, Win 8.1 x64, Java 8, Gigabit network
Drives: Several TB of internal SATA and external USB drives, no NAS or RAID or such...
Software: SageTV v9, stock STV with ADM.
Tuners: 4 tuners via (2) HDHomeruns (100% OTA, DIY antennas in the attic).
Clients: Several HD300s, HD200s, even an old HD100, all on wired LAN. Latest firmware for each.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:23 PM
SHS's Avatar
SHS SHS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vinita, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
Coming in late but a couple of thoughts:
1. Have you tried making your own antenna (DB8 or Gray-Hoverman)? I made mine out of some spare 12ga copper from some leftover Romex. I have a DB8 aimed one direction (which basically works bi-directionally), and I have a unidirectional Gray-Hoverman aimed the opposite direction (I used metal grid from a yaffa-block-type shelving system to create a reflector screen). Both are in my attic, about 5 feet apart. The DB8 gets all my locals, ~14 mi. away, without a hiccup and gets another city in the opposite direction, ~35 mi. away, reasonably well. But since the DB8 was not safely reliable on that farther city, I removed those channels from my lineup on that tuner and added the G-H to pick up channels exclusively from the other city. Those channels come in completely reliably from 35 miles away.

2. Remember amplified antennas amplify everything from the point of amplification, including noise. Always better to shorten the coax run as a first option. My solution was to get two HDHRs and put them in a hall closet, directly below the antennas. I added a receptacle up high in the back of the closet and a small shelf just big enough to hold the two of them. So the coax is like 5 feet from one antenna and 7 feet from another, and once you hit the HDHRs, then you are just running CAT cable with no loss concerns (and I ran mine down inside wall stud spaces being used as return shafts, then carved a hole in the sheetmetal in the basement and pulled them through).

Just a couple of thoughts. When I got into the whole OTA antenna thing a decade ago, I learned that antennas are weird science for sure. Someone above said moving it 5 feet probably wouldn't change much, but I've seen moving an antenna 3 inches make major differences. And rotating it about 5 degrees as well. It's a trial-and-error process for sure.
Yup that right even moving just few inches can all diff just rotating a few degrees can all diff in world, If I wanted to I could pull TV station out diff placed just from where I at in Vinita, OK like Tulsa, OK which what I have setup now add another Antenna for Joplin, MO and one for Springdale, AK but that going a little over board LoL.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-08-2019, 07:37 PM
KarylFStein KarylFStein is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Westland, Michigan, USA
Posts: 999
I installed an amplifier that installs on the antenna, but the power brick is in the basement. So far it's working great. I went from a small omnidirectional UHF antenna (DB2 I think) that picked up things fine without the amp, (except the one VHF station in the area), to a small directional model. The latter picked up the VHF channel fine, but the UHF channels were spotty for some reason. When previewing the channels in SageTV the signal strength meter kept jumping around between about 70% and 100%. Seems like that would be fine, but I don't know how this stuff works and the stream was not smooth. Climbing up to the attic to adjust then back down to test got tiresome so decided to try an amp. Thankfully the amp seemed to resolve things. Now if SD would get their premium TV offering up to snuff I think I could finally dump Comcast.
__________________
Home Network: https://karylstein.com/technology.html
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:41 PM
tmiranda's Avatar
tmiranda tmiranda is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Florida, USA
Posts: 5,805
For those cable cutters out there: How do you get Discovery, History, Science Channel, Nat Geo, PBS and other "geeky" stations. Those tend to be my favorites.
__________________

Sage Server: 8th gen Intel based system w/32GB RAM running Ubuntu Linux, HDHomeRun Prime with cable card for recording. Runs headless. Accessed via RD when necessary. Four HD-300 Extenders.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-09-2019, 06:01 PM
KryptoNyte's Avatar
KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiranda View Post
For those cable cutters out there: How do you get Discovery, History, Science Channel, Nat Geo, PBS and other "geeky" stations. Those tend to be my favorites.
Well, I had my eye set on the HDHomeRun Premium TV service;

https://www.silicondust.com/support/...run-premium-tv

which integrates into SageTV via OpenDCT using their connect tuners. Of course there are some channels that I lose, but most of the channels that I like are there - unfortunately, the first snafu in their system is the loss of 8 channels apparently out of their control (4 of which my family liked);

Hallmark, Discovery Channel, HGTV, TLC, Food Network, Animal Planet, Travel Channel & OWN

which may end up changing my mind. Some else here mentioned Philo TV for only $16/month which has a pretty nice selection, but won't be bringing that into Sage without some real effort (which may be worth it in the end).

https://try.philo.com/
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-09-2019, 06:46 PM
EnterNoEscape's Avatar
EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
Well, I had my eye set on the HDHomeRun Premium TV service;

https://www.silicondust.com/support/...run-premium-tv

which integrates into SageTV via OpenDCT using their connect tuners. Of course there are some channels that I lose, but most of the channels that I like are there - unfortunately, the first snafu in their system is the loss of 8 channels apparently out of their control (4 of which my family liked);

Hallmark, Discovery Channel, HGTV, TLC, Food Network, Animal Planet, Travel Channel & OWN

which may end up changing my mind. Some else here mentioned Philo TV for only $16/month which has a pretty nice selection, but won't be bringing that into Sage without some real effort (which may be worth it in the end).

https://try.philo.com/
Interesting option, but you lose a lot of the flexibility that you gain with Silicondust's offering. It doesn't look like they have any way to stream outside of their apps.
__________________
SageTV v9 Server: ASRock Z97 Extreme4, Intel i7-4790K @ 4.4Ghz, 32GB RAM, 6x 3TB 7200rpm HD, 2x 5TB 7200rpm HD, 2x 6TB 7200rpm HD, 4x 256GB SSD, 4x 500GB SSD, unRAID Pro 6.7.2 (Dual Parity + SSD Cache).
Capture: 1x Ceton InfiniTV 4 (ClearQAM), 2x Ceton InfiniTV 6, 1x BM1000-HDMI, 1x BM3500-HDMI.

Clients: 1x HD300 (Living Room), 1x HD200 (Master Bedroom).
Software: OpenDCT :: WMC Live TV Tuner :: Schedules Direct EPG
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It's time again, cutting the cord options? stanger89 General Discussion 84 03-12-2018 07:57 PM
TiVo Releases A $49.99 Over-The-Air DVR For Cord Cutters massmanjr General Discussion 11 08-29-2014 01:56 PM
HD200 Replacement power cord/transformer? pjpjpjpj SageTV Media Extender 2 11-10-2013 10:55 AM
Cutting D* for H+, iTunes, OTA IVB General Discussion 52 10-14-2013 08:05 AM
Anyone with kids cut the Cable/D* cord? IVB General Discussion 16 06-26-2011 09:14 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.