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SageTV Placeshifter Discussion related to the SageTV Placeshifter application produced by SageTV. Questions, issues, problems, suggestions, etc. relating to the SageTV Placeshifter software application should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 06-08-2015, 01:11 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Is PlaceShifter that bad?

I have not used Placeshifter but I have 2 licenses so I figured I would fire it up since I will be away at the Golf US open. So I monitored my server loaded up Placeshifter memory usage went from 389 to 1035. Mind you this is over a home network.

then Video played sound went !crack crack crack chipmunk chipmunk.. Totally useless.
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  #2  
Old 06-08-2015, 01:43 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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It really is pretty bad. The ffmpeg used to transcode videos is not updated and does not properly support interlaced 1080i or 480i HD-PVR recorded shows. It works ok for other content.

None of that changes the fact that Placeshifter's video & audio quality is now totally outclassed by other personal streaming products such as Plex or Air Video.

I dumped Placeshifter for Plex long ago for these reasons plus the ability to stream and sync video to my mobile devices. I hope things improve with the open sourcing of SageTV.
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2015, 01:46 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
It really is pretty bad. The ffmpeg used to transcode videos is not updated and does not properly support interlaced 1080i or 480i HD-PVR recorded shows. It works ok for other content.

None of that changes the fact that Placeshifter's video & audio quality is now totally outclassed by other personal streaming products such as Plex or Air Video.

I dumped Placeshifter for Plex long ago for these reasons plus the ability to stream and sync video to my mobile devices. I hope things improve with the open sourcing of SageTV.
Thanks good info.. I have Plex fired up just in case.
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  #4  
Old 06-08-2015, 08:43 PM
daminc daminc is offline
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I actually still use placeshifter on my macbook.. never had a problem playing anything so far. it will play videos better then my HD 200
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  #5  
Old 06-08-2015, 08:59 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Originally Posted by daminc View Post
I actually still use placeshifter on my macbook.. never had a problem playing anything so far. it will play videos better then my HD 200
Locally or remotely? If locally then SageTV is doing no transcoding and you're getting the original file. Remote playback quality is poor restricted to 480p. No HD at all. As long as there's enough bandwidth available Plex will allow streaming of 1080p without buffering issues.
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Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2015, 09:08 PM
daminc daminc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
Locally or remotely? If locally then SageTV is doing no transcoding and you're getting the original file. Remote playback quality is poor restricted to 480p. No HD at all. As long as there's enough bandwidth available Plex will allow streaming of 1080p without buffering issues.
Locally
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  #7  
Old 06-09-2015, 06:14 AM
dranockcir dranockcir is offline
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I use Placeshifter everyday to watch TV remotely over the Internet. I also have a Plex Server that I am using Phoenix plugin on to watch recorded shows on Android devices, kid's phones, tablets, etc through Android Plex Client.

Have you looked in the streaming Settings? I use the adaptive settings most of the time, have forced lower rates on low bandwidth connections in the past, don't have that problem any more though so I just use the Sage Adaptive setting.

After thought:

I should point out that I don't really care about 1080p TV. I am just happy to be able to watch TV or TV recordings remotely. The quality is fine for the purpose, for me. :-) For my movie collection I watch remotely with Plex.

Last edited by dranockcir; 06-09-2015 at 06:20 AM. Reason: after thought :-)
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  #8  
Old 06-09-2015, 07:01 AM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dranockcir View Post
I use Placeshifter everyday to watch TV remotely over the Internet. I also have a Plex Server that I am using Phoenix plugin on to watch recorded shows on Android devices, kid's phones, tablets, etc through Android Plex Client.

Have you looked in the streaming Settings? I use the adaptive settings most of the time, have forced lower rates on low bandwidth connections in the past, don't have that problem any more though so I just use the Sage Adaptive setting.

After thought:

I should point out that I don't really care about 1080p TV. I am just happy to be able to watch TV or TV recordings remotely. The quality is fine for the purpose, for me. :-) For my movie collection I watch remotely with Plex.
To each their own. It would be nicer for Placeshifter to be scalable past 480p when the bandwidth is available.

Placeshifter also needs some work on retaining the proper color spaces. Ever notice how Placeshifter playback in Windows is all washed out? The Mac Placeshifter doesn't suffer from this problem because it gets it right for some reason. I've rallied on the issue before. Yet another reason why I moved away from it.
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Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
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  #9  
Old 06-09-2015, 08:06 AM
dranockcir dranockcir is offline
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"To each their own.", hence my after thought Now that Sage is going open source, hopefully we'll see improvements in all that is Sage including Placeshifter.
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  #10  
Old 06-09-2015, 08:46 AM
will will is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
Totally useless.
I use a SlingTV with a HD200 - great HD streaming quality no hardware requirements (besides the SlingTV) and it works on all platforms (Windows, Mac, iOS, Android, and Linux (I think)).

I love it but I'm also running a server that is eight years old (the mobo/cpu at least) so I'm not going to be using any software options in the foreseeable future...
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  #11  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:23 AM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will View Post
I use a SlingTV with a HD200 - great HD streaming quality no hardware requirements (besides the SlingTV) and it works on all platforms (Windows, Mac, iOS, Android, and Linux (I think)).

I love it but I'm also running a server that is eight years old (the mobo/cpu at least) so I'm not going to be using any software options in the foreseeable future...
I will be using Plex and for LIVETV I have NEXTPVR X-NEWA WEbClient setup much better than PlaceShifter. PlaceShifter even on local lan has problems playing my HDHOMERUN TS files this is due to MPLAYER being so old.

Last edited by nyplayer; 06-09-2015 at 09:31 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-29-2015, 12:45 PM
wayner wayner is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dranockcir View Post
I should point out that I don't really care about 1080p TV. I am just happy to be able to watch TV or TV recordings remotely. The quality is fine for the purpose, for me. :-) For my movie collection I watch remotely with Plex.
Nobody cares about 1080p TV since it doesn't exist. HDTV is 1080i or 720p and 1080i doesn't work with Place-shifter.

All of the solutions listed in this thread work somewhat but they all have shortcomings. Plex is good for some content but it isn't good for watching shows that are still being recorded and it isn't so good when you want to use SkipFwd and SkipFwdx2 and I use these constantly when watching sports which is almost all of my TV watching. And I often watch shows that are still being recorded.

The same for AirVideo HD.

Placeshifter doesn't work for 1080i recordings which is almost all of my content.

Slingbox works somewhat but then you suffer from a UI lag which makes navigating menus frustrating and somewhat thwarts using the skip keys for sports.
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2015, 01:01 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Nobody cares about 1080p TV since it doesn't exist. HDTV is 1080i or 720p and 1080i doesn't work with Place-shifter.
I wouldn't say that broadcast 1080p doesn't exist. It is after all part of the ATSC specification. Rare would be a better term. I believe one of the reasons for the rarity of broadcast 1080p is that 480i video is more easily translated to 720p or 1080i.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Placeshifter doesn't work for 1080i recordings which is almost all of my content.
Not completely true. Placeshifter works perfectly fine for MPEG2 1080i video. It does not work well for the H.264 1080i video produced by the Hauppuage HD-PVR.


Placeshifter is sorely in need of a technological facelift. Currently is based on the now all but defunct MPEG4 Part 2 video standard. Processors have advanced significantly since and it should be updated to H.264 (MPEG4 Part 10) and allow HD resolutions.
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Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2015, 07:26 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
I wouldn't say that broadcast 1080p doesn't exist. It is after all part of the ATSC specification. Rare would be a better term.
It may be part of the spec, but I've never heard of any channel broadcasting 1080p. The only "broadcast" 1080p I've heard of is a bit of PPV on Satellite.

Quote:
I believe one of the reasons for the rarity of broadcast 1080p is that 480i video is more easily translated to 720p or 1080i.
Not really, converting 480i to anything requires deinterlacing, which is the hard part, after that it's just scaling/resampling which is relatively straightforward (compared to deinterlacing at least).

Actually converting to 1080i is probably the hardest, since you have to re-interlace after resampling.
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2015, 07:31 AM
Monedeath Monedeath is offline
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
It may be part of the spec, but I've never heard of any channel broadcasting 1080p. The only "broadcast" 1080p I've heard of is a bit of PPV on Satellite.
I think a bigger factor in that not being used by the broadcasters is they like being able to make use of sub-channels for a chance at more (advertising) revenue, which running a 1080p broadcast would prevent. As with most things in life, it usually boils down to "follow the money." Broadcasters will do what makes them money, and for them, 1080p is definitely not in the cards. Another factor present there would be the upstream content providers looking to make money off the 1080p blu-ray disk release of the very same programming, so in some cases it may be the parent TV Network not providing them with 1080p content for broadcast in the first place.

PPV content is usually under strong copy protection(not legally viable for OTA broadcasters), and also is a very direct revenue generator for those providers, so again, it makes them money, so they have an interest in catering to that (still rather niche) market. Most consumers however, are either unable to tell the difference between 720p/1080i/1080p content, or don't care, so the mass market gets the option that allows the providers to maximize the amount of content they can push, which means their going for the lower resolutions so they can cram more channels in the same amount of bandspace.

Last edited by Monedeath; 06-30-2015 at 07:39 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-30-2015, 07:42 AM
wayner wayner is online now
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And that excuse doesn't hold for channels like ESPN and HBO that aren't OTA.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:21 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Monedeath View Post
I think a bigger factor in that not being used by the broadcasters is they like being able to make use of sub-channels for a chance at more (advertising) revenue, which running a 1080p broadcast would prevent. As with most things in life, it usually boils down to "follow the money." Broadcasters will do what makes them money, and for them, 1080p is definitely not in the cards. Another factor present there would be the upstream content providers looking to make money off the 1080p blu-ray disk release of the very same programming, so in some cases it may be the parent TV Network not providing them with 1080p content for broadcast in the first place.
At this point it's inertia and installed base, the entire industry standardized around 720p or 1080i broadcast, including cameras and the rest of the production/broadcast equipment.

In the early days, I seem to recall it was for bandwidth reasons, though looking back, 1080i/720p60 shouldn't have a bandwidth advantage over 1080p30 (highest frame rate for 1080p in ATSC). It was probably some idea of temporal resolution. 1080i and 720p both offer 60fps temporal resolution for live content, 1080p60 would have been a lot more bandwidth.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:58 AM
Monedeath Monedeath is offline
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And that excuse doesn't hold for channels like ESPN and HBO that aren't OTA.
But they are at the mercy of the Cable Companies and Satellite companies, if they don't want to make the bandspace available, then HBO has to make do with what they get, although in their case, they've started to do away with the middle man. And again, HBO is a premium tier content provider/creator that generally targets towards the (older) Mass Market, and if their market research shows they don't NEED 1080p for their network programming, or that making the switch would have other financial consequences(service providers charging more for the same amount of content), they'll opt for status quo rather than risk losing subscribers over a rate hike for something many of their viewers will not appreciate.

ESPN has other factors at play, and I'm more inclined to say they've decided quantity is a quality unto itself where they're concerned. Although I do recall their(and/or other organizations) offering 1080p versions of sporting events in the past(naturally, at a premium), if they think there is a market for it, and the financials are good enough to make the middle men like it too, it would happen. (Although I will admit sports is one case where (poorly informed) video-phile raised to the power of 1011 can come into play in major ways)

However, 4k has largely rendered 720p/1080i vs 1080p rather moot, so we'll have to wait and see what unfolds on that front.
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2015, 03:32 PM
emveepee emveepee is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Nobody cares about 1080p TV since it doesn't exist.
Some BBC broadcasts are in a mode that shifts from 1080i/p

Martin
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2015, 07:04 AM
gveres gveres is offline
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I assume you are talking about the PC version of placeshifter. The Mac version is just about useless at this point.

I would love to see an overhaul of placeshifter if for nothing other than local lan viewing. It is a critical piece of the infrastructure.

My wife and I have reverted to using vlc right from the file system. Mostly because we want 2x playback with audio. There are so many shows that are suitable to that playback speed.
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