SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-29-2016, 03:46 PM
PeteCress's Avatar
PeteCress PeteCress is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paoli, PA - USA, AKA "The Navel Of The Universe"
Posts: 787
Kodi as SageTV Alternative ?

I want to set up a SageTV-like environment for somebody who is a stone technophobe.

The application would basically be recording and playing back TV shows.... no "Home Theater" stuff with movies and music.... just record a show and play it back.

I would just buy them a TIVO except for the EPG fees inherent in TIVO.

SageTV is what I know and love, but I expect care and feeding of both Sage and the host PC to be a bit much for this person - plus I am guessing there will also be EPG issues with the OpenSource version.

OTOH, I have just discovered Kodi (formerly XBMC) - which runs on many platforms including el-cheapo/quiet/small Android boxes.

Reading the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodi_(software) I am starting to think it might have possibilities.

Has anybody fooled around in-depth with Kodi?

I'm mainly thinking "Android" and add-ons for EPG services and scheduling recording of TV shows.
__________________
Server: SageTV 7, Windows 7, Intel i7 @3.5GHz, 8 GB RAM, 80-gig SSD drive
Clients: HD200*4 over Cat5e Ethernet + Asus Zen running Client over WiFi-ac + 1 HD200 remote at another residence
Plugins: (none yet, looking for recommendations)
Storage: NetGear Ultra-6 NAS 10 TB total w/dual redundancy. Plus (3) 2-tb local drives for RecordedTV.
Capture: 3 Silicon Dust HomeRun tuner boxes (6 tuners total)
Program Source: OTA antenna
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-29-2016, 04:14 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,759
Kodi itself doesn't include DVR features, but it can link up with a handful of DVR packages, like NextPVR. I haven't tried it myself, but that sounds terrible to troubleshoot. I really question whether that would be suitable for a "technophobe."

Also, I wonder how well those little Android boxes actually play back 1080i mpeg2.

Is this just for recording OTA signals, or does your friend have cable TV? While my CableCard tuner works very reliably, the fact that even FiOS is starting to turn on copy-protection on a handful of expanded-basic channels makes that an incomplete solution for many. And while my HD-PVR is actually pretty reliable, I can't stop my STB from turning itself off a few times a month.

Seriously, if I was starting from scratch today, I probably just get a TiVo Bolt. If I knew I only wanted OTA, I might consider a Tablo instead.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-29-2016, 04:44 PM
Skirge01's Avatar
Skirge01 Skirge01 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
I don't think either Kodi or SageTV are appropriate for anyone who you'd describe as a stone technophobe. Those are the people who SHOULD be using their cable company's STB or a Tivo and that's precisely why we, as SageTV users, generally despise them.

With that out of the way, I use both SageTV and Kodi in our household. Generally, Sage is for TV and Kodi is for movies (due to Gemstone fanart issues, primarily). While I spent less time getting Kodi set up (due in no small part due to my Sage knowledge), Kodi requires more ongoing maintenance.

The biggest issue with something like this is that you have to ask yourself one question: Are you okay being this person's 24/7 tech support for their TV watching?
__________________
Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case
Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB
Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion
Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT
Software: SageTV 7
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-29-2016, 04:47 PM
rxnelson rxnelson is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 121
Not to be a jackass but it sounds like you should go with the TiVo. As an outsider looking in it would seem you are taking a very complicated (in comparison) system like Sagetv or nextpvr or whatever and slapping a different front end on it when they already make something basic (TiVo) for the basic use you want. Plus I'd imagine it "just works" compared to a home brew dvr.
Sorry, just thinking about my own situation and time is money. I don't want to be troubleshooting someone else's television.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-29-2016, 06:35 PM
PeteCress's Avatar
PeteCress PeteCress is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paoli, PA - USA, AKA "The Navel Of The Universe"
Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirge01 View Post
I don't think either Kodi or SageTV are appropriate for anyone who you'd describe as a stone technophobe. ...

The biggest issue with something like this is that you have to ask yourself one question: Are you okay being this person's 24/7 tech support for their TV watching?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxnelson View Post
Not to be a jackass but it sounds like you should go with the TiVo. As an outsider looking in it would seem you are taking a very complicated (in comparison) system like Sagetv or nextpvr or whatever and slapping a different front end on it when they already make something basic (TiVo) for the basic use you want. Plus I'd imagine it "just works" compared to a home brew dvr.
Sorry, just thinking about my own situation and time is money. I don't want to be troubleshooting someone else's television.
You are both supporting what's been in the back of my mind - but which I did not want to accept: Go with the TIVO and eat the EPG fee.

I actually bought a TIVO a few years ago without knowing about the EPG fee. Turned it back to Best Buy as soon as I made the discovery...

But I was seriously impressed with the elegant simplicity of setting it up and using it. Truly a thing of beauty.

Thanks.
__________________
Server: SageTV 7, Windows 7, Intel i7 @3.5GHz, 8 GB RAM, 80-gig SSD drive
Clients: HD200*4 over Cat5e Ethernet + Asus Zen running Client over WiFi-ac + 1 HD200 remote at another residence
Plugins: (none yet, looking for recommendations)
Storage: NetGear Ultra-6 NAS 10 TB total w/dual redundancy. Plus (3) 2-tb local drives for RecordedTV.
Capture: 3 Silicon Dust HomeRun tuner boxes (6 tuners total)
Program Source: OTA antenna
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-01-2016, 06:25 AM
Tiki's Avatar
Tiki Tiki is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southwest Florida, USA
Posts: 1,806
TiVo does have an option to buy a lifetime subscription for a onetime fee also. Costs more up front, but at least you know what you're getting into.
__________________
Server: Athlon II X4 630 CPU, Gigabyte MA770T-UD3P (AM3) Motherboard, VisionTek Radeon HD4670 PCIe w/ Component output to 50" CRT Rear-Projection HDTV (Mitsubishi), Win7-64Bit (Home Premium), 4GB RAM
Capture Devices (8 tuners): Colossus (x1), HD-PVR (x1), HDHR Prime (x2)
,USBUIRT (multi-zone)
Source:
Comcast Cable
Primary Client: Server Other Clients: (1) HD200, (1) HD300
Retired Equipment: MediaMVP, PVR150 (x2), PVR150MCE,
HDHR, HVR-2250
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-01-2016, 06:30 PM
rxnelson rxnelson is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
TiVo does have an option to buy a lifetime subscription for a onetime fee also. Costs more up front, but at least you know what you're getting into.
This is the lifetime of the device though, correct? Not your life....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-01-2016, 07:32 PM
PLUCKYHD PLUCKYHD is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxnelson View Post
This is the lifetime of the device though, correct? Not your life....
Yes but most things that die are the hard drive and that is user replaceable they also constantly add upgrade paths for lifetimes.

As for the monthly FWIW the bolt comes with 1 year of service fee included. Any non sagetv type system is gonna have a monthly (cable, tivo, dish etc)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-01-2016, 07:44 PM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
SageTV is what I know and love, but I expect care and feeding of both Sage and the host PC to be a bit much for this person - plus I am guessing there will also be EPG issues with the OpenSource version.

OTOH, I have just discovered Kodi (formerly XBMC) - which runs on many platforms including el-cheapo/quiet/small Android boxes.

Reading the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodi_(software) I am starting to think it might have possibilities.

Has anybody fooled around in-depth with Kodi?
Just to the original question. Kodi is nowhere near the DVR Sage is. DVR in Kodi is (still) an afterthought. There are plugins to get live/recorded TV functionality into Kodi, which is nice if you've already got a Kodi system up and running and don't want another UI. But if starting from scratch, you'd be much, much better off with SageTV as a DVR.

I really like Kodi for ripped media, the interface is quite nice, but when I tried TV on it I hated it.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-01-2016, 08:17 PM
PeteCress's Avatar
PeteCress PeteCress is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paoli, PA - USA, AKA "The Navel Of The Universe"
Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
... better off with SageTV as a DVR.

I really like Kodi for ripped media, the interface is quite nice, but when I tried TV on it....
What does Kodi do for you ripped-media-wise that Sage lacks?

And.... does Kodi keep track of where you were when you close a movie partway through and then start it up again?
__________________
Server: SageTV 7, Windows 7, Intel i7 @3.5GHz, 8 GB RAM, 80-gig SSD drive
Clients: HD200*4 over Cat5e Ethernet + Asus Zen running Client over WiFi-ac + 1 HD200 remote at another residence
Plugins: (none yet, looking for recommendations)
Storage: NetGear Ultra-6 NAS 10 TB total w/dual redundancy. Plus (3) 2-tb local drives for RecordedTV.
Capture: 3 Silicon Dust HomeRun tuner boxes (6 tuners total)
Program Source: OTA antenna
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-02-2016, 06:34 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
What does Kodi do for you ripped-media-wise that Sage lacks?
Well there's a few layers to that. Stock, out of the box, Kodi supports metadata and grouping imported media in to movies/etc and automatically pulling down Fanart/etc.

Now if you add Gemstone to Sage, functionally there's not a lot of difference, though it seems Kodi's scraping works better. And overall Kodi is just more polished in that regard. I also don't like how Gemstone messes with the stock Sage recordings menu.

Quote:
And.... does Kodi keep track of where you were when you close a movie partway through and then start it up again?
It does.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-02-2016, 07:19 AM
mikejaner's Avatar
mikejaner mikejaner is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chantilly VA
Posts: 2,087
Send a message via MSN to mikejaner Send a message via Skype™ to mikejaner
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteCress View Post
I want to set up a SageTV-like environment for somebody who is a stone technophobe.....

Are you talking about recording TV via Antenna, Cable Card, or some type of capture device? If the answer is Antenna, the ATSC signal includes 3 days of guide data, which SageTV uses (I believe), if you are not pulling the guide data from their servers, making it free. If Cable Card, or Cable Box, you are talking rental fees for either, up front cost for a HDHR Prime, the cost of the SageTV system, and other stuff. In that situation, like others are saying, Tivo with a Lifetime sub might be a better deal.
That being said, the Gemstone interface on SageTV looks quite nice, and you can remove everything but the TV Menus by customizing it. Kodi would be complicated looking for a technophobe at first glance just like SageTV, and it's DVR plugin capability is pretty unstable/glitchy from my perspective. SageTV is by far the best DVR software out of all the ones I have tried (MythTV, MediaPortal1/2,GBPVR/NextPVR, Media Center).
__________________
Mike Janer
SageTV HD300 Extender X2
Sage Server: AMD X4 620,2048MB RAM,SageTV 7.x ,2X HDHR Primes, 2x HDHomerun(original). 80GB OS Drive, Video Drives: Local 2TB Drive GB RAID5
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-02-2016, 07:49 AM
PLUCKYHD PLUCKYHD is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,257
I will second calling the pvr function in kodi bad is a gross understatement. it's a second thought half baked solution. I will say kodi is great at movies and awesome at emulated games (nes ,SNES etc) managing the library and launching third party emulators is amazing. Kodi is more polished UI wise but they have allot of their party help.the amount of skins available is nothing short of great.

For DVR I also agree sage is hard to beat but would never set it up for a friend as I dont wanna support it. TiVo is a close second and better in some ways, where sage is better in other ways. any other DVR option falls short in IMHO.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-02-2016, 07:52 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I also don't like how Gemstone messes with the stock Sage recordings menu.
Not sure what Gemstone changes here, but it would be pretty easy to add an unorganized view of just sagetv recordings. I tend to never use the stock menus, and my "go to" menu is a "Unwatched TV" menu that groups by series and organizes by most recently recorded first.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-02-2016, 08:04 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Well it replaces the stock recordings menu with a Gemstone one. The really big annoyance that I remember is that it puts everything in folders, even single items, and there's no way to defeat that.

I can't remember if I tried setting up a Flow, but if I did, it was not possible to approximate the stock Recordings list.

Also it sticks in my mind that Gemstone doesn't support collections/box sets for movies like Kodi does either, at least not automatically based on metadata.

Last edited by stanger89; 03-02-2016 at 08:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-02-2016, 09:06 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Well it replaces the stock recordings menu with a Gemstone one. The really big annoyance that I remember is that it puts everything in folders, even single items, and there's no way to defeat that.

I can't remember if I tried setting up a Flow, but if I did, it was not possible to approximate the stock Recordings list.

Also it sticks in my mind that Gemstone doesn't support collections/box sets for movies like Kodi does either, at least not automatically based on metadata.
That's interesting... On my setup, I had to create a flow for unwatched tv, because the default TV flow put all the sage recordings in an unorganized list (like stock stv) where there were no folders. I can't speak for Gemstone specifically, but the vfs architecture supports promoting single items out of a folder.

As for collections, agreed, that SageTV today, doesn't support it. Next version of Gemstone will have some support for it.

Does your Kodi setup give you are sagetv stock recordings view?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-02-2016, 11:08 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
That's interesting... On my setup, I had to create a flow for unwatched tv, because the default TV flow put all the sage recordings in an unorganized list (like stock stv) where there were no folders. I can't speak for Gemstone specifically, but the vfs architecture supports promoting single items out of a folder.
Maybe that was the problem I had, Gemstone replaces the stock recordings view, sort of, but since it's not a Flow, it doesn't work quite right, meaning options like promote single items aren't available. I know I was able to get folders.

It also seems to me like I was unable to create a flow that sorted like the stock STV. I have my SageTV setup to group on show and sort recently recorded first, but I don't think I could get a Flow to do that for some reason.

Also I'm sort of weird in that I like my recordings separate from my ripped media, so I like recordings sorted differently, seems like Gemstone Flows are more geared toward "collected" media rather than transitory media.

Quote:
Does your Kodi setup give you are sagetv stock recordings view?
I use both actually. I use basically stock SageTV on my HD300 (plus comskip playback) and I have a Chromebox running OpenELEC. I use Sage for my TV and OpenELEC/Kodi for my ripped movies/TV.

I really don't like Kodi for DVR. Ironically? Kodi and SageTV have the opposite problem, Kodi is a media player/organizer with TV/DVR bolted on as an "afterthought", where as SageTV is the reverse.

"Utopia" for me would be merging the two, not having SageTV be a DVR backend, that wouldn't really solve any problems, but to have a UI that had the best of both. Give me all the DVR features filtering/sorting of recordings from SageTV, and the imported media from Kodi.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-02-2016, 11:34 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
It also seems to me like I was unable to create a flow that sorted like the stock STV. I have my SageTV setup to group on show and sort recently recorded first, but I don't think I could get a Flow to do that for some reason.
That's actually my default TV flow.. except I prune out "watched" items.

Quote:
Also I'm sort of weird in that I like my recordings separate from my ripped media, so I like recordings sorted differently, seems like Gemstone Flows are more geared toward "collected" media rather than transitory media.
I can see that. I tend to want all tv grouped together, but, flows would actually allow you to separate actual recorded TV from ripped TV (or tv from other sources). I just don't know if some of this is doable in the Gemstone UI vs having to manually crafted views. The view architecture is pretty complex... which is great that you can pretty much get any view you want.. but at the cost that it can be complex to create (We need to work on that for sure).

Quote:
I really don't like Kodi for DVR. Ironically? Kodi and SageTV have the opposite problem, Kodi is a media player/organizer with TV/DVR bolted on as an "afterthought", where as SageTV is the reverse.
Personally, I think that media (tv and video) organization in SageTV (using VFS) is far superior to Plex and Kodi (collections aside, but that is coming in next phoenix update). In SageTV you can create pretty specific view requirements. Metadata scraping is better in Plex and Kodi... no question. My goal is actually strip out and re-do much of that inside a future phoenix update. Likely it will offer less choice (ie, just TVDB and TMDB), but it should be much more reliable.

But that being said, I would think that using SageTV as a recording back end should be pretty easy. But as you said, Kodi, sort of sucks as being a DVR (for now).
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-02-2016, 11:56 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
I can see that. I tend to want all tv grouped together, but, flows would actually allow you to separate actual recorded TV from ripped TV (or tv from other sources). I just don't know if some of this is doable in the Gemstone UI vs having to manually crafted views. The view architecture is pretty complex... which is great that you can pretty much get any view you want.. but at the cost that it can be complex to create (We need to work on that for sure).
Oh, I managed to separate out my recorded vs imported TV with Flows, so that's there. Now I didn't ever dig deep enough to creating my own VFSs "by hand" outside of the Gemstone UI.

I may have to give the next version of Gemstone another try, especially since the skin I really like for Kodi (Ace) hasn't been updated for Kodi 15 or 16.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-03-2016, 09:38 AM
jchiso jchiso is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 615
Kodi is a really simple system to use as a backend or frontend for media playback, but as others have mentioned, it's not really designed for DVR functionality. LiveTV playback works as expected if you use a compatible HDHomerun tuner and the Kodi add-on, but you still would not have scheduling of timed records.

If you are just looking for a device to do scheduled and live recording of OTA broadcasts you'd be better off getting a Homeworx device (~$40) and a USB flash drive ...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kodi QueOnda SageTV Github Development 92 11-15-2017 12:26 PM
Help migrating to Kodi (XBMC) cumak General Discussion 40 10-15-2016 06:31 AM
The "Best" of stock SageTV and Kodi, can it be done? stanger89 Gemstone for v7 21 06-24-2016 03:08 PM
A SageTV alternative (or not) Ken C General Discussion 16 05-03-2007 03:18 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.