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  #1  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:32 AM
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Why is KODI so much better than SageTV at ________ ?

I'm impressed with the new KODI... the new skin is modern and I was never a fan of the older kodi skins, to be honest.

Kodi does alot of great stuff from organizing media, playing media, accessing network shares, plugins, etc, etc, and it keeps getting better (and that's good). I think it's lacking as a PVR front-end, but, it's getting better.

The question that pops up from time to time is "Why is KODI so much better than SageTV at _______ ?" or "If KODI can do _________ , then why can't SageTV?".

I follow KODI because before SageTV, I was a huge fan of Xbmc, and I still like Kodi, even though I don't use it, today.

Kodi just released their v17-Alpha2, and I read the post, and this stood out.
Quote:
Since Kodi v16 there were 1179 pull-request (code change requests) which hold 3735 commits (code chunk changes) spread over 6679 files done by 39 different developers.
That is impressive, especially given that Kodi v16 was released April 24 of this year.... Someday, SageTV "might" get to that level of development... In it's prime (before the sale to Google), I think we probably had 30+ developers working on add-ons for SageTV... we still have a few left, but nowhere near this volume of active development, when compared to Kodi. I think that quote from their press release speaks volumes as to why Kodi can do all of sorts of impressive things.

I still prefer SageTV over any other media center out there. That's not to say that I think SageTV is perfect... since it isn't... we still need lots of refinement, but for most part, it just works well for my needs. I have a Plex setup, and my kids use that mostly for watching stuff, since SageTV doesn't really have a good Web/Player and Plex fills that void.
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2016, 09:58 AM
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If I could have Kodi with SageTV's DVR features in the UI, that would pretty much be my ideal system, at least as I can envision today.

I really like how Kodi works for my ripped media, it's much better/easier than Sage/Gemstone (no offense to the Gemstone devs). I think it might partially be because Gemstone is just too ambitious for me. I don't need 1000 different options for setting up views/flows, I just want a movies view and a TV shows view (by season) with fanart. I especially like the Ace skin (with the vertical main menu) it's really nice and clean.

Maybe Phoenix 3 will be that system.
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2016, 10:03 AM
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I never looked into it, but I envisioned they had more active developers. It would really be awesome if SageTV could reach/exceed that level one day.
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2016, 01:08 PM
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Three things stand out to me for Kodi. First, Kodi can play back just about anything, kinda like VLC can. I've never been able to reach that level of compatibility in Sage.

Second--and I say this knowing that it's being worked on in Sage, but--Kodi's fanart is damn near flawless. I think I've said this on these forums before, but the spotty fanart is the reason I finally sat down and got Kodi working on my main TV. Quite honestly, it was embarrassing to browse movies with people over and to have tons of gaps in the flows.

Third, Kodi can play back my 3D movies.

A little Kodi add-on I've come to really love is TVTunes. It's pretty neat browsing TV episodes and having the show's theme song playing.

Now, to come back to what I love about Sage is the PVR, first and foremost. Kodi's PVR is still a joke; an afterthought. Also, I prefer the customization that Sage's developers allow. I've noticed that nearly all Kodi skins have the same underlying layout. Specifically, the way you browse your media (both TV & movies) is nearly identical across each and every skin, with the same views available. There really isn't anything to differentiate the skins in that regard. What you get across skins are different graphic stylings and colors, with perhaps a switch between vertical and horizontal main menus; nothing more. The only skin I've seen which looked poised to break that cycle was The Paper Street Soap Company, but that project is dead, along with most of the images in that thread.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2016, 02:40 PM
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I love the Amber Skin with the plexbmc plugin works great and comskip works.
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:06 PM
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nyp, is it Kodi that currently does back-to-back recordings, with padding both directions, on one tuner?
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
nyp, is it Kodi that currently does back-to-back recordings, with padding both directions, on one tuner?
Nope KODI does not do any recording ... NEXTPVR is a backend for KODI that does back to back and can record Multiple streams on one tuner like 2.1 2.3 and 2.3. Also the HDHomerun DVR can do that record back to back with padding same channel.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2016, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
The question that pops up from time to time is "Why is KODI so much better than SageTV at _______ ?" or "If KODI can do _________ , then why can't SageTV?".
Kicking a horse (not dead yet)...
Running on a Pi! I personally have 3 Pi's running Kodi mostly accessing my video library. Its awesome period! I'd kill for SageTV ON Kodi.
I've read the post, the + the - and so on and so on. Bottom line is SageTV on the Pi atm is a hack, and vastly a poor product at this date and time.

With that said, what Kodi has for SageTV has been an awesome 'got it working' effort. Now its vastly time for something that is on target.

IMO,
RedR

PS- Frankly I'd walk away from Kodi on the Pi if I could have SageTV.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2016, 04:21 PM
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I guess I am probably the wrong audience for this question...
I have loaded up XBMC/openelec a couple of times (not since the name change though)... was impressed with the UI and speed of UI, but when I got done playing with the UI, and was ready to actually watch a movie or TV, I would shutdown XBMC and go over and turn on the Sage HDx00 at the chosen display and just use sage...
Sage just feels like a finished professional product... XBMC/KODI had lots of geewiz factor, but never felt really "finished" (hard to describe a feeling, finished may not be the correct word, but it is the best I can think of at the moment)

as far as rPI or openelec go, while "neat" I have yet to determine what I would actually use them for... the Sage HDx00's seem to do everything I need already, they just work, they always work, and I have a bunch of them... as far as I am concerned, these Sage Extenders were an industry game changer, and still are..

when I did the whole HTPC thing, there were plenty of times where people would be over to watch something and I would need to reboot/retweak/fiddle with the HTPC in some way... that just never happens with Sage + extenders...
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Last edited by SomeWhatLost; 07-06-2016 at 04:24 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2016, 05:16 PM
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stuckless stuckless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedR View Post
PS- Frankly I'd walk away from Kodi on the Pi if I could have SageTV.
It might be better for us to take up a collection and buy you 3 $49 AndroidTV units to replace the rPI units
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2016, 07:11 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeWhatLost View Post
as far as rPI or openelec go, while "neat" I have yet to determine what I would actually use them for... the Sage HDx00's seem to do everything I need already, they just work, they always work, and I have a bunch of them... as far as I am concerned, these Sage Extenders were an industry game changer, and still are..
This!

If only I could run more than four without eventually crashing the server.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2016, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeWhatLost View Post
I have loaded up XBMC/openelec a couple of times (not since the name change though)... was impressed with the UI and speed of UI, but when I got done playing with the UI, and was ready to actually watch a movie or TV, I would shutdown XBMC and go over and turn on the Sage HDx00 at the chosen display and just use sage...
I did the same thing for years. I installed and uninstalled XBMC about 5 times before my most recent install a year (or two?) ago and that's when it was finally deemed good enough to serve my needs. Each time, the software is better AND it takes you less time to get it configured.

If you decide to try it again, wait for v17, since there's a huge UI update and many things (e.g. settings) are being moved to more logical places (at least, in theory).
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2016, 02:30 AM
Bagal Bagal is offline
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I'm curious as to what devices people are running Kodi on?

Like many of you I've given Kodi a go on numerous occasions, I tried it on a first gen rPI a couple of years ago and it just wasn't usable, personally I never want to go back to having a PC under the TV again so unless it's an HDx00 like device then I'm probably not going to be interested, hence why I haven't looked at Kodi again recently.

The other issue I had with Kodi is that each client has to be configured individually including scrapping metadata and fanart, has that been improved at all? i.e. can you have a central store? (other than maintaining .nfo files etc with your content)
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2016, 05:52 AM
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I'm using an Asus Chromebox.
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2016, 06:48 AM
mshannon mshannon is offline
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Shorter answer - I <3 SageTV, and wouldn't take the time to answer the question if I didn't really admire what has been created. SageTV is still my primary - by far. My "dream" mashup is the Kodi UI with the SageTV PVR functionality, and Plex's remote streaming capability and device ubiquity.

Longer:
I think some / all of my points are contained above, but here is my take.

I cannot answer why Kodi is better than SageTV at ______, but I can comment that I like Kodi better because ______.

The Kodi UI is minimal enough to be snappy and give me what I need. Phoenix 2 is awesome, but UI can seem sluggish. This isnt a fatal issue, but Kodi gets the "shiny award".

Kodi plays everything I have - TV shows, PVR shows, DVD folders, MP4, MKV... I am finding some newer formats / bitrates / resolutions that Sage seems to not play or struggles to stream. That said - I don't currently have Kodi running "in production". I install it, play with it, and walk away. The only device that I currently / actively use Kodi is my Amazon FireTV tablet to watch and DVDs when the kids have commandeered the larger TV.

I often look for SageTV scrappers plugins for Kodi. I would happily leave SageTV running for its PVR and live TV, and use Kodi to play recorded / comskipped material if I could just get the SageTV recording to look less klunky. I've tried the SageTV plugin but it never seemed too stable.

While Plex isnt part of the question, I allow my MIL to attach to my media, and the transcoding capability and installation device ubiquity allows a non-tech savvy person to play in my HTPC with ease.

I've invested thousands in SageTV in hardware (servers, extenders) and in time. Its run and run and run for years. Few other solutions have been so stable. It plays just about everything (I mostly have ripped my DVDs to NAS, not transcoded to MP4 and MKV). I love the PVR and I've added ComSkip - I cannot imaging TV with commercials any longer and get peeved when I've watching live. I hope some of this ramble has been helpful. - Cheers, Matt
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  #16  
Old 07-07-2016, 06:59 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I'm using an Asus Chromebox.
And what about the centralization of metadata? Is that fixed now?
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  #17  
Old 07-07-2016, 09:06 AM
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Skirge01 Skirge01 is offline
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EDIT: Sorry... this somehow turned into a rant. Just ignore me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagal View Post
I'm curious as to what devices people are running Kodi on?
Intel NUC (3rd gen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagal View Post
personally I never want to go back to having a PC under the TV again so unless it's an HDx00 like device then I'm probably not going to be interested, hence why I haven't looked at Kodi again recently.
I chuckle every time I read this because, for all the clamoring about how easy Sage is when running an extender, how much it's just "plug and play", and how people don't want to deal with codecs, when I finally bought an HD300 during the final batch of new ones, I was absolutely floored when it took me over 30 minutes to get frustrated and box it back up because I couldn't get it working like the HTPC I was attempting to replace. I have yet to dig it out again. Reminds of how I felt when I first tried Kodi.

I also wonder how many people will jump ship when all their HDx00's give up the ghost and then spend weeks (and money) moving to some other solution or their cable co's STB. But, this thread is derailing enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagal View Post
The other issue I had with Kodi is that each client has to be configured individually including scrapping metadata and fanart, has that been improved at all? i.e. can you have a central store? (other than maintaining .nfo files etc with your content)
There fanart is still pulled from local files. There seems to be an option for centralized fanart, but I never tried it and the description--"Centralize extrafanart (Can be used for extrafanart slideshow)"--makes it sound like it wouldn't be the primary storage location. The "extrafanart" folder is different from the general fanart stored within the media's folder, so it seems that's the only fanart which can be centralized.

You can centralize the library data (watched states, media db itself), but still need to configure each client... just like you do with full Sage clients. Ugh, I'm tired of this debate over and over. Stupid me for taking the bait. Moving on...

The original question was:

Why is KODI so much better than SageTV at ________ ?

How about... releasing new versions? Attracting developers? (Mostly sarcasm.)
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Last edited by Skirge01; 07-07-2016 at 10:57 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-07-2016, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
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And what about the centralization of metadata? Is that fixed now?
I only have one Kodi box so I haven't really looked into it.
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2016, 10:30 AM
phantomii phantomii is offline
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I am running Kodi on several Android Devices including the Nvidia Shield and a G Box Q. It runs well on all but best on the Shield. I also have it installed on several computers.

I have configured a copy of Kodi to run on my SageTV Server. I have also installed MySQL on the box (See Kodi Tips and Tricks) which enabled the sharing of the library to all my Kodi Clients as they all look at the same library. I also point kodi to all the same folder I that house my SageTV Libraries so a full list is available on by Kodi and SageTV Clients

I also modified the old Kodi SageTV Add on (seems no one is supporting it these days and it does not work as downloaded from Kodi) which enables the viewing of all SageTV recorded TV shows on the Kodi players. One cannot schedule recordings in Kodi, but I personally have always done that on the SageTV Server vs. clients anyway. My modified Kodi add-on is in another post somewhere in the SageTV Forums if someone wants it......

I find Kodi plays pretty much any video I throw at it on any device I have it installed on which is important in my case because my users hate to have to change between or learn multiple apps. They are tech challenged...
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2016, 10:56 AM
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I don't think Kodi is "so much better" than SageTV but after testing Kodi out last night, Kodi can play back a recording with closed captioning support on Nexus Player from SageTV while the mini-client cannot.

However "feature wise", the mini-client is so much better than Kodi.

Bill
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