SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > SageTV Development and Customizations > SageTV Clients Development

Notices

SageTV Clients Development This forum is for discussions relating to SageTV Open Source Clients Development.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-28-2018, 01:17 PM
fresnoboy fresnoboy is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 118
Shield vs Intel NUC as Sage Client

Hi. I need to deploy a few new clients in the house, and while I really wanted to deploy shields because of Android TV and all the apps, Sage client playback of MPEG2 streams is still not really excellent on the Shield, and I still have UI issues with version 1.2.8 of the Android app.

I played around with the latest sage client code on windows, and it's just rock solid on playback and stability, and no UI issues. I can boot into Sage, though my other OTT sources (netflix, etc..) aren't as easily integrated as they are on the shield. I can put Chromecasts on or use the TV's builtin apps for most of these though.

I was wondering if folks here had an inexpensive NUC configuration that worked well for Sage playback? Also, has anyone run Sage client on an Intel stick PC successfully? That form factor would be nice to deploy, but I can bit the bullet I guess on a compact PC formfactor machine if needed.

thx
mike
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-28-2018, 02:31 PM
Zogg Zogg is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 146
I'm using a 7th gen Core i3 NUC as my HTPC running Win 10 and SageTV and it works great. It's an impressive little box. I have PlayOn on it also and I never notice any hiccups in playback while it's downloading videos.

I bought the NUC new last year to run WMC and other things, so it's a bit of overkill for just a playback client. I'd look for a good used 3rd or 4th gen CPU NUC if you want to keep it cheap. I've also wondered about those PC stick computers, and they might work fine, but I needed some storage.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-28-2018, 03:49 PM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,699
The other option is to buy used SageTV extenders as they still come up for sale on the forum on a regular basis.

But the advantage that you have with a full PC client is that you can use OTT services and, depending on the CPU/GPU in your client, you can use newer video formats like HEVC/H.265 and 4K/2160p video resolution.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2018, 03:53 PM
texneus texneus is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 269
Not a NUC but a run of the mill desktop Haswell generation i3 that I even under clock about 25% since it runs in a fan less enclosure. I'm not sure about newer AMDs but Intel have nailed it for this kind of work for many years now. The bigger problem will be having to put up with Windows and it's EDID weirdenss and propensity to self destruct over time.

You are correct that windows is not OTT friendly. Shield is definatly superior there. Kodi can handle some of the free services, but navigation and finding something to watch is pretty awkward. Worst case is you'll still have a shield (or Roku, or FireTV...) for OTT.

The following though intrigues me. What issues are you having? Shield is one of the few Android boxes that properly supports MPG2 playback, and it works flawless for me...and the only UI issue I have is the chintzy POS remote (although I do use Gemstone, not the default UI). The devs did well accommodating it, but just about everything requires multiple button presses to do something that isnt up/down/left/right/enter or back. I use a Flirc instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnoboy View Post
Sage client playback of MPEG2 streams is still not really excellent on the Shield, and I still have UI issues with version 1.2.8 of the Android app.
__________________
Server: Asrock C236WSI, Xeon E3-1225, 32GB RAM, NAS4Free (FreeBSD) 11.1 w/Ubuntu VM for SageTV
Tuners: HD Homerun Quatro (OTA), Hauppauge Colossus HDMI capture (CATV)
Clients: SageTV client on Windows 7 HTPC, NVidia Sheild
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2018, 06:01 PM
fresnoboy fresnoboy is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by texneus View Post
Not a NUC but a run of the mill desktop Haswell generation i3 that I even under clock about 25% since it runs in a fan less enclosure. I'm not sure about newer AMDs but Intel have nailed it for this kind of work for many years now. The bigger problem will be having to put up with Windows and it's EDID weirdenss and propensity to self destruct over time.

You are correct that windows is not OTT friendly. Shield is definatly superior there. Kodi can handle some of the free services, but navigation and finding something to watch is pretty awkward. Worst case is you'll still have a shield (or Roku, or FireTV...) for OTT.

The following though intrigues me. What issues are you having? Shield is one of the few Android boxes that properly supports MPG2 playback, and it works flawless for me...and the only UI issue I have is the chintzy POS remote (although I do use Gemstone, not the default UI). The devs did well accommodating it, but just about everything requires multiple button presses to do something that isnt up/down/left/right/enter or back. I use a Flirc instead.
I get occasional breakups on some channels. Not a big deal, but not exactly perfect. When I looked at recorded MPEG streams from Comcast, I see occasional messed up timestamps - probably from crappy compression technology they use. But generally it's pretty good. It could be an exoplayer issue - android playback frameworks are kind of messy it appears.

On PC's I never see an issue.

Does the linux client work well on a NUC? That may be the easier way to go and avoid windows painfulness.

thx
mike
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-01-2018, 02:36 PM
texneus texneus is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 269
Huh, that's interesting. When I see glitches it's identical on both systems, right down to the amount of picture missing and the pattern it shows in its place. It was very surprising to me to see how similarly DXVA and Shield hardware acceleration reacted to glitches. I have found though that using LAV + quicksync or software decoding on the PC smooths quite a bit of it out, however...but now I'm really getting off topic...

To answer your final question, I have not had any luck with place shifter on Linux. I tried on Ubuntu and had to disable 3D acceleration to get the menus to work and even then playing video just gave me sound and a black screen. I suspect linux placeshifter simply predates Intel graphics too much. Ive seen similar on windows with old video players (specifically TMT3) that worked with an older GPU. I've heard it does work with NVidia but have not confirmed...
__________________
Server: Asrock C236WSI, Xeon E3-1225, 32GB RAM, NAS4Free (FreeBSD) 11.1 w/Ubuntu VM for SageTV
Tuners: HD Homerun Quatro (OTA), Hauppauge Colossus HDMI capture (CATV)
Clients: SageTV client on Windows 7 HTPC, NVidia Sheild
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-01-2018, 04:57 PM
fresnoboy fresnoboy is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by texneus View Post
Huh, that's interesting. When I see glitches it's identical on both systems, right down to the amount of picture missing and the pattern it shows in its place. It was very surprising to me to see how similarly DXVA and Shield hardware acceleration reacted to glitches. I have found though that using LAV + quicksync or software decoding on the PC smooths quite a bit of it out, however...but now I'm really getting off topic...

To answer your final question, I have not had any luck with place shifter on Linux. I tried on Ubuntu and had to disable 3D acceleration to get the menus to work and even then playing video just gave me sound and a black screen. I suspect linux placeshifter simply predates Intel graphics too much. Ive seen similar on windows with old video players (specifically TMT3) that worked with an older GPU. I've heard it does work with NVidia but have not confirmed...
Ah, when I was comparing windows to the Nvidia Shield app, I was comparing the Windows CLIENT to the Shield app. Not placeshifter. Windows placeshifter has some of the same issues that the Nvidia app does. the client in my experience is totally solid.

thx
mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-02-2018, 08:46 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,699
It would be really nice if Placeshifter worked properly. Client is a bit of a pain as you have to do a lot of client-side configuration that isn't necessary on Placeshifter. The downside is that Placeshifter uses up some of the JVM heap on your server but that isn't an issue if you are running the server on Linux.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-02-2018, 02:47 PM
texneus texneus is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 269
Er, I WAS talking about the Windows client, not placeshifter in Windows. Try filing a bug report and see what the devs can do about whatever issue you have. I don't seem to have any issues so not much I can contribute other than to confirm the requested clients can work as requested...
__________________
Server: Asrock C236WSI, Xeon E3-1225, 32GB RAM, NAS4Free (FreeBSD) 11.1 w/Ubuntu VM for SageTV
Tuners: HD Homerun Quatro (OTA), Hauppauge Colossus HDMI capture (CATV)
Clients: SageTV client on Windows 7 HTPC, NVidia Sheild
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-03-2018, 10:09 AM
jchiso jchiso is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnoboy View Post

Does the linux client work well on a NUC? That may be the easier way to go and avoid windows painfulness...
Iíve not seen Linux Placeshifter work on any Intel HD Graphics system. No video is displayed at all.

That being said, Iíve run Server, Client, and Placeshifter on a few Zotac small-form-factor PCs with Windows 7, 8, and 10. Same deal with an Asrock BeeBox. These sub- $200 systems all support resolutions of at least 4K/60hz ...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-04-2018, 06:03 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,585
This might be a bit of a tangent, but i wonder if SageTV (client) would run on these intel boxes using ReactOS as a means to avoid the windows license but still run a windows app.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-13-2018, 01:44 PM
panteragstk's Avatar
panteragstk panteragstk is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 3,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
This might be a bit of a tangent, but i wonder if SageTV (client) would run on these intel boxes using ReactOS as a means to avoid the windows license but still run a windows app.
Very interesting. I'll have to check this out.
__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA
Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60
Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u
Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-07-2018, 11:06 AM
7up 7up is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 176
ReactOS project looks very cool and maybe for a client behind firewall router it would work fine but is there any increased security risk compared to real version of Windows? Cost of a Windows license is dirt cheap but I'd consider using ReactOS as base for SageTV.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:41 PM
cat6man's Avatar
cat6man cat6man is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: West of NYC, East of SF
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by texneus View Post
Not a NUC but a run of the mill desktop Haswell generation i3 that I even under clock about 25% since it runs in a fan less enclosure. I'm not sure about newer AMDs but Intel have nailed it for this kind of work for many years now. The bigger problem will be having to put up with Windows and it's EDID weirdenss and propensity to self destruct over time.

You are correct that windows is not OTT friendly. Shield is definatly superior there. Kodi can handle some of the free services, but navigation and finding something to watch is pretty awkward. Worst case is you'll still have a shield (or Roku, or FireTV...) for OTT.

The following though intrigues me. What issues are you having? Shield is one of the few Android boxes that properly supports MPG2 playback, and it works flawless for me...and the only UI issue I have is the chintzy POS remote (although I do use Gemstone, not the default UI). The devs did well accommodating it, but just about everything requires multiple button presses to do something that isnt up/down/left/right/enter or back. I use a Flirc instead.
my issue with the shield is the inability to get native resolution passthrough.
this degrades the video quality noticeably, to my eyes.
the hd300 is wonderful for its ability to turn off all scaling, de-interlacing, etc.
combined with turning off all similar processing by Fios, i can let the video processing be done where it is done best.........if a NUC could bring back hands-off native passthrough, i'd definitely head in that direction as it would give me both video quality and 4K capability.
__________________
Q: dad, when will you stop changing all the electronics?
A: never, so you might as well get used to it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:44 PM
cat6man's Avatar
cat6man cat6man is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: West of NYC, East of SF
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogg View Post
I'm using a 7th gen Core i3 NUC as my HTPC running Win 10 and SageTV and it works great. It's an impressive little box. I have PlayOn on it also and I never notice any hiccups in playback while it's downloading videos.

I bought the NUC new last year to run WMC and other things, so it's a bit of overkill for just a playback client. I'd look for a good used 3rd or 4th gen CPU NUC if you want to keep it cheap. I've also wondered about those PC stick computers, and they might work fine, but I needed some storage.
can't we run the client under linux on a NUC?
that gets rid of the windows license issue.
__________________
Q: dad, when will you stop changing all the electronics?
A: never, so you might as well get used to it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:18 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post
can't we run the client under linux on a NUC?
that gets rid of the windows license issue.
There is no full client for linux, just a placeshifter.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-20-2018, 09:14 AM
bigbill's Avatar
bigbill bigbill is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 391
I bought the new shield a few months back to replace the Mibox. When I was using the shield on wireless it was pretty bad, choppy playback more often than not. The Mibox did not do that at all on the same WiFi. As an experiment I bought a pair of Netgear 1000v2 Ethernet over power adapters so I could try the wired connector on the shield. Now it works perfectly with my mpeg2 recordings and mp4 recordings. Pulling real ethernet thru the coach is on the todo list, but will not be a "fun" project due to very confined spaces under there. -Bill
__________________
Sage Server: SageTV v9.2.1(64)
Hardware Dell T20 Mini Tower, 4th Gen Pentium, 8GB RAM, Win10 Pro 64 bit, 3 x 4TB WD Green, 128GB SSD boot drive. Capture: 1 Quad HDHR, 2 Dual HDHR, (OTA Winegard HD8200U, CM4221HD), 2 @ STP-HD200's, 1 @ HD300, 1 @ Nvidia Shield 2017, 1 @ Mibox. TV's: 70", 55" & 40" Sony's - Playon/PlayLater, Blue Iris.

Motorhome Sage Server: SageTV v9.1.8 Intel NUC6CAYH, HD200, Nvidia Shield 2017, 1 Dual HDHR 4TB Passport storage, Winegard BatWing RV antenna.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-04-2018, 12:03 PM
cat6man's Avatar
cat6man cat6man is offline
Sage Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: West of NYC, East of SF
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post
can't we run the client under linux on a NUC?
that gets rid of the windows license issue.
just to follow up and make sure i'm not missing anything, if i were to use windows on an intel NUC, would the sagetv client permit native resolution passthrough?
__________________
Q: dad, when will you stop changing all the electronics?
A: never, so you might as well get used to it.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:53 PM
Galaxysurfer Galaxysurfer is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, AB CANADA
Posts: 282
I use an Asus vivo minipc ( similiar to a Intel nuc ) with a Minix
NEO-A3 Wireless Double Sided Air Mouse to control it. maybe you could get away with something like this ? https://www.asus.com/us/Stick-PCs/VivoStick-PC-TS10/

Last edited by Galaxysurfer; 07-13-2018 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sage MiniClient Issue on NVIDIA Shield JrClocker SageTV Clients Development 16 04-03-2018 08:33 PM
Shield / Client issues ptaylor SageTV Clients Development 0 04-27-2017 06:13 PM
Mini client on Shield TV won't connect to server cculpepp SageTV Clients Development 5 03-15-2016 10:19 AM
sage client on 'chinook-15' intel M mini itx skorson Hardware Support 10 07-18-2007 01:36 PM
Best Intel CPU for HD Client? aglennon Hardware Support 19 09-13-2006 09:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.