"Recording Now" gripe

[debennett2]

Why is it that whatever I am tuning into has to come up as recording now? I know it's recording technically, but for the normal end-user, they don't want to know that. It's playing to them....plus that recording message gets in the way of the more important ones that may be coming up that were actually scheduled. Is there a way to get rid of this message? What about a way to get rid of it appearing in the recorded shows section until after it has been "asked" to be recorded. It's just annoying. Thanks!

[valnar]

I agree. I understand why its like that, but it could be masked.

Robert

[Opus4]

What "Recording Now" message is this?

- Andy

[debennett2]

Originally Posted by Opus4

What "Recording Now" message is this?

- Andy

Using a customized interface (I'm too new to be familiar with who I need to give credit to), but, regardless this info shows up in the Recorded Shows section...most likely what is actually affecting this custom stuff.

[Opus4]

Then this is moving to the customizations forum, since that is where you should post feedback about any customizations. The currently recording show will not be removed from the default UI's schedule or recording lists.

- Andy

[debennett2]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Then this is moving to the customizations forum, since that is where you should post feedback about any customizations. The currently recording show will not be removed from the default UI's schedule or recording lists.

- Andy

I think you are missing the point completely. Don;t be so quick to point the finger elsewhere. This has NOTHING to do with customization. Let's take that part of it out of it. The problem lies in SageTV itself. There is no reason why joe user needs to see that the show they were watching is "recording" in the program guide or in the recorded shows section. It's just confusing and gets in the way of what we really want to see.

[mlbdude]

If you are using a custom UI the author of that UI has complete control of what you are complaining about.

[valnar]

This is the default UI. Don't tell me you don't see it?

Robert

[GKusnick]

Don't see what? There is no "Recording Now" message in the default UI. There's a red REC icon that appears above the clock when recording is in progress. Is that what you mean?

It's true that live TV recordings show up in the recordings list in the default UI, but Andy has already said that's not going to change. So if you don't want that behavior, you're going to need a customization to suppress it.

[valnar]

Yes, we mean the little red REC sign, and the fact your current viewing is listed in the recorded shows. If you have multiple tuners doing other things at once, it certainly can be an annoyance.

It's not going to change if a silent majority says nothing. That's why we're discussing it, and I agree with the original poster. I wanted to give the topic some extra weight.

Robert

[Opus4]

The original poster is dicussing a customization, which is where "Recording Now" comes from. This aspect has nothing to do with the default STV or the core, since the customized STV is in full control of what gets displayed in the UI, not some default core functionality.

For the default UI: if you only want to see scheduled recordings in the schedule or recordings list, then use the Options command and set the filter to include only Manual Recordings and Favorites. Of course, this also will not list the Intelligent Recordings. What I meant above is that there won't be additional options for Live TV vs all other types. The existing filter options will remain.

- Andy

[debennett2]

The original poster (me) is discussing the fact that the ui (default one) makes livetv appear as recordings in the ui (default). I made the mistake of referring to a "custom" ui feature. Regardless it does not take away from the fact that the default UI is flawed and very annoying. Not to mention a MAJOR flaw in the control portion of the default ui....but that is another discussion totally.

I can tell that the Sage developers take complaints to heart, and I can appreciate that, but please don't snap at someone trying to make the product better.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by debennett2

Regardless it does not take away from the fact that the default UI is flawed and very annoying.

If you want a lot more options and control settings for how the UI functions, you'll find those settings here.

...but please don't snap at someone trying to make the product better.

I don't agree that what you want to change would be an improvement for the default UI, but who is snapping? I don't see any snapping at you above. If you think it was me: I asked where you were seeing that "Recording Now" message because I work on the default UI, am therefore very familiar with it, and couldn't figure out what you were referring to. So, when I found out that it was a customization, I moved your question to where it belonged in the first place. Having it included in the recordings list seemed like an after-thought tacked onto your main complaint & is actually configurable via the filter I mentioned above. If you think that is snapping, then that's an issue you need to correct on your end regarding how you perceive other people's comments.

- Andy

[Wheemer]

I would not like sage to hide or simplify anything for me. I understand that live tv is also being recorded. So when I see that recording icon on and yet there's no scheduled recordings, thats when I know someones watching live tv somewhere.

I think it would be easy to put to bed the old way of thinking about how it should work and just adopt the new way sage deals with it. Either way, I can't understand how this could ever really be that much of a real issue for anyone.

But everybody's entitled to their own preference, so then I would either learn studio enough to accomplish it, or request it as a custimization. I don't even think it would be all that hard to accomplish, but I know very little about studio.

[debennett2]

Originally Posted by Wheemer

I would not like sage to hide or simplify anything for me. I understand that live tv is also being recorded. So when I see that recording icon on and yet there's no scheduled recordings, thats when I know someones watching live tv somewhere.

I think it would be easy to put to bed the old way of thinking about how it should work and just adopt the new way sage deals with it. Either way, I can't understand how this could ever really be that much of a real issue for anyone.

But everybody's entitled to their own preference, so then I would either learn studio enough to accomplish it, or request it as a customization. I don't even think it would be all that hard to accomplish, but I know very little about studio.

For me, and I am sure I am not alone, my sage box is standalone at the moment. I may get a client going later on down the road but I really don't care to know what that client is doing when I am trying to enjoy television. Why would I want a big red "REC" button on the screen when I am just channel surfing? What's the advantage of having the big red "REC" on the screen or the red circle in the program guide?

While I'm still "griping" about things. What's the deal with going back in the interface? Everyone knows that "enter/ok" takes you into the menu hierarchy and that "escape/back" takes you out of that hierarchy....not "back" like a web-browser. My guess is that whomever developed this was more into web development than into intuitive 10-ft interfaces. Let's say I don't want a Sage "home" button on my remote (cause mine didn't come with one labeled that). Now let's go into the program guide. I can map the alt-left to my remotes "esc/back" button and go back to the main menu. Let's say I go to the program guide, find a channel, watch some of it, go back into the program guide, find another channel, watch some of that, and so on for a little bit. Now how do I go back to that main menu (in order to retire Sage to the tasktray or to do whatever else I planned to do in Sage)? Just bad design. The developers seem to take a stance where what we want to do is what is going to happen, we know best, and some people agree with us so we must be correct approach to all of this. I could be wrong and have been before but that is how it is coming across to me.

Don't mean to start a war here but those two things (especially the back button) render sage crippled for me and my family.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by debennett2

For me, and I am sure I am not alone, my sage box is standalone at the moment.

Not alone, but I'd guess in the minority.

I may get a client going later on down the road but I really don't care to know what that client is doing when I am trying to enjoy television.

And your way is the only way? Sage should work exactly like you wish it to, regardless of how others wish it to work?

Why would I want a big red "REC" button on the screen when I am just channel surfing?

Why should it not be there, something is recording.

What's the advantage of having the big red "REC" on the screen or the red circle in the program guide?

What's the disadvantage?

While I'm still "griping" about things. What's the deal with going back in the interface? Everyone knows that "enter/ok" takes you into the menu hierarchy and that "escape/back" takes you out of that hierarchy....not "back" like a web-browser. My guess is that whomever developed this was more into web development than into intuitive 10-ft interfaces. Let's say I don't want a Sage "home" button on my remote (cause mine didn't come with one labeled that).

Maybe you could use Menu

Now let's go into the program guide. I can map the alt-left to my remotes "esc/back" button and go back to the main menu. Let's say I go to the program guide, find a channel, watch some of it, go back into the program guide, find another channel, watch some of that, and so on for a little bit. Now how do I go back to that main menu

I hit Menu.

(in order to retire Sage to the tasktray or to do whatever else I planned to do in Sage)?

I hit power if I want to leave Sage.

Just bad design.

Or perhaps one you're just unfamiliar with.

The developers seem to take a stance where what we want to do is what is going to happen, we know best, and some people agree with us so we must be correct approach to all of this. I could be wrong and have been before but that is how it is coming across to me.

More like everything you've been complaining about lately is stuff that has been a certain way since Sage's inception, and, to my recollection, nobody else has made the fuss you have.

I certainly don't think it's a "bad design", if it were, I suspect there would be a chorus of complainers.

Don't mean to start a war here but those two things (especially the back button) render sage crippled for me and my family.

That seems a bit over the top.

Sage works differently than most other PVRs out there, subtly in some ways, and significantly in other ways. Given that Sage is still here, and apparently thriving after being on the market for several years, they must be doing something right.

Your tone of late certainly isn't helping get you good responses. Your posts come of as "Sage is wrong, I want it my way, all else be damned." The simple fact is, no program, out of the box, can work exactly the way everyone wishes it to.

Sage is unique in that it's possible (simple in many cases) to redefine it's operation to your tastes. You've been given some, IMO, very reasonable suggestions for your issues (Andy pointed out a simple filter that would eliminate LiveTV from the Recordings menu), all of which you've completely blown off, insisting that Sage is wrong.

Quite simply, you can't expect any app to work exactly as you like, with Sage there are relatively simple things you can do to "solve" most of the issues you've raised. However your continuance to ignore those options and your continued insistence that Sage is simply wrong, comes off as very confrontational.

Hence the "snappy" responses.

[debennett2]

Not alone, but I'd guess in the minority.

I seriously doubt that.

And your way is the only way? Sage should work exactly like you wish it to, regardless of how others wish it to work?

Not at all. To suggest that my way is the best way would be arrogant. I am not arrogant. What I do see here is a rather reclusive user-base compared to any related forums I am a member of. Not too much going on at all when you take into consideration the ability to create add-ons and whatnot for Sage now.

Not my way but I don't see anyone giving me any good argument on the contrary of my issues.

Why should it not be there, something is recording.

If only all potential users of Sage WERE geeks like myself and looked at everything technically. Let's be real though. If your mother/sister/aunt/grnadma/father/penal walked into your home:

1) Could they figure out how to use your remote easlily?
2) Don't you think when they went to the program guide and saw that something was recording that it would raise questions?

I know what it is suppose to be telling me but I don't see why someone should care. If you want to see what someone is watching, maybe you need either better parental controls or another hobby.

Maybe you could use Menu

I DO hit menu to use the program guide. I'm not sure if you have used any other 10-ft interface before but they all have something in common: there is a button to move you forward and one to go back. Let's introduce granny to the picture again here. Are you going to sit next to her and when she DOESN't hit "menu" on the remote smack her upside the head?! This is the ONLY HTPC software I am aware of that behaves like this and one of the major reasons I jumped ship for nearly 4 years.

I hit power if I want to leave Sage.

OK. Let's say I use MORE than SageTV. Let's say I have an HTPC interface I use that launches into Sage just for it's TV abilities. Should I have to occupy my power button just for Sage? Should I not be able to just use my power button to power up/down my home theater equipment if I chose to?

Or perhaps one you're just unfamiliar with.

The problem is that I am familiar with it and am familiar with intuitive design. Like I have said before, it's easy to make something great, it's another thing to make it easy to use. I'm not talking about setup...that IS for advanced users but the interface itself and the control of said interface should be at the lowest levels of easy.

Quite simply, you can't expect any app to work exactly as you like, with Sage there are relatively simple things you can do to "solve" most of the issues you've raised. However your continuance to ignore those options and your continued insistence that Sage is simply wrong, comes off as very confrontational.

That's the second reference to the fact that I don't read manuals or know how to perform a search. Completely off-base.
I challenge you to find a way to navigate SageTV thoroughly using your remotes direction buttons, ok/enter, escape/exit, and numbers keys then. That is all one should need but, for some reason, you think I should need more...

[abasu2003]

1) Recording icon:
So, you are saying that when you are watching Live TV, you don't want it to tell you its "recording" live tv because you are just watching live tv? and so you don't want it to say recording in the program guide, and the recordings screen? Is this correct?

My initial answer would be that if you adopted your paradigm that live tv isn't being recorded just "watched," it would be a tad confusing. you are recording what you are watching. that lets you know that a file is being saved, that you can rewind that file, that you need to stop the recording or else it will continue to record. i could see problems developing if you took that functionality out since you no longer have an indicator that your tv is "on," that something is recording. i think its better to think of live tv as essentially recording programs.

but, i would think you can make a customization for this. i dont' know why you are so against going that route. there are a number of things that i don't like about the default UI (particularly the recordings screen) but i've found customizations that make it look the way i want.


2) in re: to "Home" function:
ok. simmer down and calmly explain what it is you want because I still don't get it but I think what you want is definitely available in Sage. On your keyboard, if you hit "Home," it takes you back to the sage menu. You could map that to any key on your remote. is that what you want?

[nielm]

Originally Posted by debennett2

Everyone knows that "enter/ok" takes you into the menu hierarchy and that "escape/back" takes you out of that hierarchy....not "back" like a web-browser.

10ft ui's don't normally have keyboards -- up/down/left/right/Enter, plus playback controls, and maybe a number pad is all you can really rely on.

BTW, in most cases 'left' takes you up a level in the hierarchy (except in the program guide).

Originally Posted by debennett2

'm not sure if you have used any other 10-ft interface before but they all have something in common: there is a button to move you forward and one to go back.

Not on my remote.

OK. Let's say I use MORE than SageTV. Let's say I have an HTPC interface I use that launches into Sage just for it's TV abilities. Should I have to occupy my power button just for Sage? Should I not be able to just use my power button to power up/down my home theater equipment if I chose to?

This is what tools like Girder are for -- for having more that one function for a button depending on which app you are in.

[debennett2]

On your keyboard, if you hit "Home," it takes you back to the sage menu. You could map that to any key on your remote. is that what you want?

I understand that but what I want is the functionality everyone has grown accustom to. I don't want to have to have this extra "home" button. It's rather egocentric on behalf of Sage developers to think that whatever button would be best suited for "home" on my remote should automatically be given up to SageTV....especially when the circumstance could be easily avoided and, by doing so, make control easier.

10ft ui's don't normally have keyboards -- up/down/left/right/Enter, plus playback controls, and maybe a number pad is all you can really rely on.

Who said anything about keyboards? I certainly did not. I'm making a statement that if you can limit the number of buttons needed then I don't see a LOGICAL reason why you wouldn't make SIMPLICITY available to the end user.

This is what tools like Girder are for -- for having more that one function for a button depending on which app you are in.

I see where you are going with that and I would agree (I'm an avid girder fan), however, my goal (as it should be) is to integrate both interfaces so that jumping from one to another (i.e. closing sage or opening sage) does not change the look or feel during this transition. To say I should hit power during THIS transition and THEN when I wanted to actually turn the entire system off would be confusing at best.

I think the arguments everyone has are valid if you don't expect much from your HTPC. My goal has always been to make my HTPC experience (for my family and guests more than me) the most enjoyable and user-friendly experience possible....not necessarily "Wow" everyone by holding the reigns of the UI at all times to make sure there is no confusion.