SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #121  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:06 AM
drewg drewg is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by routerunner View Post
your current ISP, modem and router, and this is the area I think is going to create more disappointment in term of "real world" download speed which is not "up to speed", yet
What you are forgetting is that the GF connection is symmetric, which is pretty rare for high speed residential connections. So yes, downloading things may not be appreciably faster for "joe sixpack", but UPloading sure will be. Between video sharing sites and photo sharing sites and cloud backup, there is a lot of legitimate need for fast upload.

And the download is nothing to sneeze at either, if you are downloading from the right sites or using torrents. For example, I'd be quite happy with the internet2 type speeds I see at university computers. To download the latest linux kernel source from kernel.org takes ~3 seconds (200Mb/s) at a uni. computer, and ~13 seconds (50Mb/s) at home.

I would certainly pay Google $10/mo more for an uncapped 1000Mb/1000Mb connection than I'm paying Comcast for a capped 50Mb/10Mb connection, or than I used to pay TWC for an uncapped 12Mb/1Mb at my old address.

Drew
__________________
Server HW: Xeon CPU E3-1270, 16GB RAM, 9TB Raid-Z + L2Arc,
Server SW: Ubuntu 12.04 x86_64, ZFS on Linux, Java 1.6.0_21, SageTV 7.1.9.1
Tuner HW: Pinnacle 800i, Pinnacle 801e USB, HDHR
Client: HD300, HD100
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:18 AM
routerunner's Avatar
routerunner routerunner is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 1,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewg View Post
What you are forgetting is that the GF connection is symmetric, which is pretty rare for high speed residential connections.
Yes, symmetric connection are normally business leased lines, we have 100Mb/100Mb (1:1 contention ratio) where I work, but it costs thousands/mo, however GF to offer that symmetric speed at that price and for residential, must have a pretty high contention ratio...

I'm so envious of you KC residents, that I desperately need to find a catch somewhere
__________________

Automatic Power Off | Squeezeslave | DVB-S Importer | DVB Decrypter & Card Client | Tuner Preroll


Every man is a damn fool for at least five minutes every day; wisdom consists in not exceeding the limit. ~ Elbert Hubbard

Last edited by routerunner; 08-10-2012 at 09:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:34 AM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by routerunner View Post
I'm so envious of you KC residents, that I desperately need to find a catch somewhere
I'll let you know when I discover the catch. My hope is to get GF installed in my place sometime early 2013.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:50 PM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 603
I think this is more of a game changer than most realize. Currently, I host my web stuff on a VPS that I pay almost $70/mo for. Theoretically, I could host my own, provided GF has a business class with static IPs. And I'm sure they will.

We can argue the wisdom of that, but I think there are a lot of data centers and webhosts thinking that this could cause at least some loss of business. Not to mention a lot more possible competition if this spreads. Everybody and their brothers will be thinking they can be a webhosting company.

But even more basic to me is the fact that I could get those kinds of upload speeds. Everytime I have to upload a big website back to my VPS because someone messed up their site, I wish I had something like this

I may have to move back to KC
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:30 PM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by samgreco View Post

I may have to move back to KC
Come on over to KC Sam!
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:36 PM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 603
My guess is that it's changed a bit in 40 years Yes, I'm old....

I went to Northeast Jr. High in the early 70s. Still have relatives there.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:39 PM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by samgreco View Post
My guess is that it's changed a bit in 40 years Yes, I'm old....

I went to Northeast Jr. High in the early 70s. Still have relatives there.
Ah.. yes it has changed a bit since then. I guess you know of my new neighborhood then. We call it the river market district, but you may know of it as the river quay. Much more of a neighborhood now without the exploding buildings
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:45 PM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Much more of a neighborhood now without the exploding buildings


We've been talking about visiting again. I'll let you know and maybe we can connect. But the first stop is Google Fiber Demo Space.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 08-11-2012, 12:02 PM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by samgreco View Post


We've been talking about visiting again. I'll let you know and maybe we can connect. But the first stop is Google Fiber Demo Space.
Definitely let me know and we can meet for a coffee or beer.

Here's the latest ad for Google Fiber being aired here in KC.

http://youtu.be/zjDoaWqnutI
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:41 AM
hemicuda's Avatar
hemicuda hemicuda is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north of Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 1,117
Just like everything else (phones/tablets), if there's enough interest "the community" will find a way to improve it even if it "voids" the warranty. If it's android-based then there will possibly be a way to hack the firmware. Of course, that's me being uncharacteristically optimistic.
__________________
Server: MS Win7 SP1; FX8350 (H2O cooled); 8GB RAM; Hauppauge HVR-2250 (OTA); HVR-1800 (OTA); SageTV 9.1.5.x; 12+TB Sage Storage

Clients: HD300 x2; HD200 x2; Placeshifter

Service: EPB Fiber (1Gb); OTA (we "cut the cord"); Netflix, Hulu, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:36 AM
sleonard's Avatar
sleonard sleonard is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,506
You gotta have one in order to see if it's hackable. So far Google has taken a wonderful product that most everyone in the world had access to and made it even more wonderful but available to only those people that live in Kansas City.

It may be the best thing since sliced bread but it doesn't do a thing for any of the thousands of Sage users who aren't lucky enough to live in the one city in the entire world that has access.

I want an announcement telling us what the F* they are planning for the rest of us. A lot of us are in limbo with our EOL Sage systems and are well into our second year of waiting for news about how we are going to be affected.

We are some of the most loyal customers a company has ever had. EVER. I think that gives us the right to SOME news about what is going to happen for us.

Jeff, Google, I am calling you out. You've had more than enough time to let us know something. Spill some beans!

S
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:54 AM
hemicuda's Avatar
hemicuda hemicuda is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north of Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleonard View Post
You gotta have one in order to see if it's hackable. So far Google has taken a wonderful product that most everyone in the world had access to and made it even more wonderful but available to only those people that live in Kansas City.

It may be the best thing since sliced bread but it doesn't do a thing for any of the thousands of Sage users who aren't lucky enough to live in the one city in the entire world that has access.

I want an announcement telling us what the F* they are planning for the rest of us. A lot of us are in limbo with our EOL Sage systems and are well into our second year of waiting for news about how we are going to be affected.

We are some of the most loyal customers a company has ever had. EVER. I think that gives us the right to SOME news about what is going to happen for us.

Jeff, Google, I am calling you out. You've had more than enough time to let us know something. Spill some beans!

S
+1

And you're right about the limited testbed they chose. I was being optimistic that the market would spread to a larger geographical area.

If they structure it like my local (quasi-govt) ISP did, there's a fiber-to-ethernet/coax box mounted outside. I'm willing to bet the STB they offer would work on any (sufficiently fat) ethernet link as long as it could be authorized by their servers. Whether they get enough interest in the product to branch out remains to be seen. There is great potential for it with the acquisition of the SageTV devs, but Corp Suits are notoriously short-sighted and the legal weasels can really tie their hands otherwise.
__________________
Server: MS Win7 SP1; FX8350 (H2O cooled); 8GB RAM; Hauppauge HVR-2250 (OTA); HVR-1800 (OTA); SageTV 9.1.5.x; 12+TB Sage Storage

Clients: HD300 x2; HD200 x2; Placeshifter

Service: EPB Fiber (1Gb); OTA (we "cut the cord"); Netflix, Hulu, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:09 AM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleonard View Post
Jeff, Google, I am calling you out. You've had more than enough time to let us know something. Spill some beans!

S
What are you thinking they should tell SageTV users? Are you looking for a committment to say "we'll keep the EPG and forums up for ### months" or something like that? If so, I'm pretty sure that won't happen. Or are you looking for something else? Right now the stuff that is public is the stuff they can and will talk about - not much more. That's just how it is I'm afraid.

I do know that I am still using SageTV and it's EPG as is a bunch of Sage... er Google people right now. Not sure I see any reason they would want to turn that off any time soon.

PS: SageTV (and Google) seems to be fully aware of the loyalty and rabid support of this SageTV user community. That's something I discussed with Jeff over a few drinks about a month ago and he was the one that brought it up. He gave me zero reason to be concerned as a SageTV user - even if I wasn't in KC.

Last edited by Brent; 08-14-2012 at 11:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:23 AM
Rob Rob is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 568
The only concern I have is HD300/HD200's failing.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:27 PM
sleonard's Avatar
sleonard sleonard is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,506
I am reasonable certain that my current Sage (including Guide Data) will continue to work for some time and for that I am thankfull. But I do not like being on the hook year after year waiting to find out what is going to happen with A MAJOR INVESTMENT in my home entertainment system. Especially when the cat's already out of the bag for KC. There is really not much left to tell at this point except: Will Google Fiber spread to other cities? WHEN? Will I be able to get a non-fiber version in the meantime? WHEN?

Heck, they could even make an announcement of the announcement ("We will be announceming the non-fiber version at CES 2013") and that would be better than we have right now and shut me up for a few months.

If you think about it there is really very little that needs to be secret at this point. They have already made the major announcement of their flagship product including it's capabilities. What is left except to officially say whether or not there will be a version for everyone and, if so, when it can be expected?

S
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:35 PM
darcilicious's Avatar
darcilicious darcilicious is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Venus
Posts: 1,306
Quote:
Will Google Fiber spread to other cities? WHEN? Will I be able to get a non-fiber version in the meantime? WHEN?
It's quite possible that Google doesn't even know the answers to these questions yet (especially the WHEN ones).

Quote:
If you think about it there is really very little that needs to be secret at this point.
And even if they DO know the answers, company announcements of new/updated products/services are made when it makes strategic sense for THEM. And apparently, it's not time yet. Why is that so hard to understand (and accept)?
__________________
SageTV Server 7.1.x w/Gemstone and Plex Home Theater v1.0.10 w/PlexPass
HD-PVR w/v1.5.6 drivers / Hauppauge IR blaster / FiOS Extreme HD / Motorola QIP6200 / SPDIF+720p Fixed Output
on HP Media Center 8400F (Phenom 9500 QuadCore 2.2GHz, nVidia GeForce 8500 GT)
via Olevia 247TFHD/Onyko TX-SR606/Harmony 550/HP MediaSmart EX490 WHS w/12TB
Plex Media Server v0.9.9.5 on HP Touchsmart Envy 23 d16qd
Sonos Play:3, Connect / SimpleTV v2 / Roku 2 XS+Plex / iPhone 5 / iPad 2
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:37 PM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleonard View Post
There is really not much left to tell at this point except: Will Google Fiber spread to other cities? WHEN? Will I be able to get a non-fiber version in the meantime? WHEN?

Heck, they could even make an announcement of the announcement ("We will be announceming the non-fiber version at CES 2013") and that would be better than we have right now and shut me up for a few months.

If you think about it there is really very little that needs to be secret at this point. They have already made the major announcement of their flagship product including it's capabilities. What is left except to officially say whether or not there will be a version for everyone and, if so, when it can be expected?

S
I understand the frustration - believe me. But from Google's perspective doing what you are asking is like asking them to say "We have it in our long-term plans to possibly expand this Google Fiber thing beyond KC once we expand throughout KC and if we can make it economically viable and make agreements with the other cities etc etc. And we have it in our plans to sell the Google Fiber TV product beyond just Google Fiber folks as long as it is successful in the Google Fiber rollout and we can get vendors to buy it for their own systems etc etc."

There's a lot of "if's" in those hypothetical statements. It makes nobody happy to make promises before they know what they will be doing. Because we'll be pissed when it takes longer or doesn't happen or happens differently than originally planned. Plus they give away valuable advantage to competitors by telling them their long-term plans. As of today, I doubt they are 100% sure of where this will go.

There is probably nothing they will (or can) say that will satisfy us at least at this point. It's frustrating, but at least we know they didn't shut down everything I guess.

Last edited by Brent; 08-14-2012 at 12:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:52 PM
Brent Brent is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KC, Missouri
Posts: 3,695
Just thought I'd share this for some perspective of what is going on with Google Fiber so hopefully everyone can see the challenges.
So in my little neighborhood of River Market (I just moved here from the burbs earlier this summer), here's where we are with pre-registrations:



Our neighborhood only required 5% to make it's "goal" (most were 25% but ours is an older, denser neighborhood that is easier to do installs apparently). But it amazes me that only 156 people have pre-registered. I would expect we'd be over 400 at least by now. Cost to pre-register is $10 which goes towards your first months bill.

Our neighborhood or fiberhood as Google calls it is ranked #35 in the two Kansas Cities. That should put us in the install timing range of early 2013. Note that the area in the first rollouts is only in the more urban-central parts of Kansas City, KS and Kansas City, MO. They then will move outward to the more spread out suburbs. As you can see, this rollout will take some time.

Google has told us Kansas Citians that if we do not pre-register now we'll have to wait much longer to get Google Fiber even though we live in the early rollout fiberhoods. They say they will only install to those that pre-registered at first, then move to the next fiberhoods and on and on until they get time to come back to allow for new registrations. That gives one a little push to want to register if at all interested.

If Google keeps the TV stuff tied to the Google Fiber rollout and doesn't begin selling the product outside of it in the first year or more, who knows what will happen during that time. If the TV stuff works well and is well received, I would imagine the powers that be at Google might decide to "sell" it outside of the Fiber stuff. But this remains to be seen. I think the TV crew (Jeff and his co-workers) will be very busy managing things in Kansas City given this is going out to people used to a fairly "dumb" cable box. Lots of potential challenges imo.

PS: I was one of the first to pre-register that first day. I can't wait to get my hands on it to try and rid myself of TWC and it's semi-crappy cable TV. And the fast net speeds don't sound too bad either. But it will seem like a long wait even for my fortunate situation.

Last edited by Brent; 08-14-2012 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 08-14-2012, 01:04 PM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Our neighborhood only required 5% to make it's "goal" (most were 25% but ours is an older, denser neighborhood that is easier to do installs apparently). But it amazes me that only 156 people have pre-registered. I would expect we'd be over 400 at least by now. Cost to pre-register is $10 which goes towards your first months bill.
Man, sounds like Google made a mistake picking KC People in my neighborhood have been dropping the big (crappy) cable company and satellite like a bad habit when the small, local "cable" company rolled FTTH into our area. I talked to the installer and he said they were doing 3-4 installs a day.

People around here really hate the "big" cable company and would switch to just about anything else given the opportunity. I can't imagine how big Google fiber would be if it were rolled out here.

From what you say I wouldn't be surprised if despite the metro area here being significantly smaller than the KC's metros, if we would actually have had more people sign up.

Too bad the FTTH isn't really being utilized yet, they're still just offering their regular "cable" services, just over fiber so far....
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 08-14-2012, 01:04 PM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 603
Small world. I lived less than a mile from there, just on the other side of I35. And the first time I ever played live in a band, was in a banquet hall in your neighborhood
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Google Fiber GFHD100 Brent General Discussion 17 06-14-2012 01:06 PM
Long Run Ethernet or Fiber dgeezer The SageTV Community 11 11-17-2011 10:31 PM
Fiber to the Home hemicuda The SageTV Community 6 01-12-2010 12:08 PM
Google with PVR-350 allen SageTV Beta Test Software 2 10-15-2006 07:10 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.