SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > SageTV Development and Customizations > SageTV Clients Development

Notices

SageTV Clients Development This forum is for discussions relating to SageTV Open Source Clients Development.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-22-2018, 07:40 PM
photon photon is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 158
Next gen HD300 replacement?

The HD300 is a beautiful solution for easy no learning curve plug and play client solution with remote. HD300s are now rare and near unobtainable. And then there is the question of where are we with a solution to HD300 era tech going obsolete as tech evolves? Will we have a solution in the near future that does what the HD300 does?

There is the Android MiniClient and I see that some use it on Android TV devices. In my searching it seems that Remote control is a kludge compared to HD300 and doesn't seem to do everything sageTV does. I have the MiniClient on my phone so I see it's potential to use the Android platform to take us into the future but it doesn't play back everything (DVDs) at this point in time and controlling it on my phone is a challenge. Useful for watching my recorded TV when I am traveling though. Perhaps updates to SageTV could make it possible for DVDs to be delivered in a format the MiniClient on Android can play?

The links below look nifty since they seem to have nice remotes but specs can't be found for the less expensive hardware and no info on the remote capability with Android Miniclient. Would be great if you could just teach a universal remote sage TV commands point it at a box like this and have it work like an HD300 once the mini client is loaded on screen.
https://www.amazon.com/Android-Marsh...6664277&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.com/Rveal-Media-R...7377172906801a
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-23-2018, 06:36 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,538
I don't think we'll ever see a dedicated hardware box like the HD300. Technically it's not that hard (no harder than doing a miniclient for Android or iOS), but, I think for most people, taking over the hardware to do a single task, seems like a wast of the capabilities of the hardware

Most people (including myslef) has always wanted youtube, netflix, (insert streaming service here), to be accessible from within SageTV, and that's never going to happen. Right now, using the Android MiniClient, I'm having best experience I've ever had with SageTV, and I have 3 retired HD300 boxes that been replaced.

I get the remote issues. First when I went to the shield, the first thing I bought was a flirc so that I could use my huge remote. But, after a while, I started to actually use the shield remote, and found the experience to be better, and today, that's all I use. Sure, there are some things that you cannot do with a 5 button remote, but 99% of the time, the actions I need are just there (yes I had to change a little).

I think most people fall into the "i'm not going to change, I want everything to change for me", and I don't see that happening here.

Can you buy DVDs today? I ripped all my DVDs to MKV years ago. If you have blurays, I guess sage can play them, but you don't get menus, so you could probably rip those as well.

Unless someone comes on board that is a video developer, I'm doubtful the miniclient will evolve much beyond what it is today. I certainly don't use it on a phone/tablet (I'll use plex and the sagetv webserver to do what I need there). It's not meant for a phone/tablet, it just happens to run on it, since, it's plain Android under the hood. Persaonlly, I'd like to see a real sagetv app for the phone/tablet, but I'm not hopeful for that either. For a TV, for a collection that is basically entirely h264 ts files and mkv/mp4 files, my family is the happiest we have been since moving to SageTV.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-23-2018, 07:10 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
When it comes to DVD I think people are going to have to bite the bullet and find a batch conversion process that works to convert from VOB files to an MKV or MP4 file. Those types of files are much more supported than DVD file structures.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-23-2018, 10:15 AM
photon photon is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 158
Thanks to both of you. I'm trying to understand the full picture so I buy the right Android TV box. DVDs and BD are not a deal breaker. I'll just come up with a plan such as pull the original disks out of storage and rerip or move on from them.

I see the advantages of an Android TV box. With all the apps available they can do far more that just SageTV.

I guess the next question is how does one choose an Android TV box? What specs are important to look for?
Should I look for one that comes with a remote with lots of buttons or use a universal remote that I can program from an existing sage remote? I would like to be able to have an options button is that possible?
Or will only remote buttons which navigate visible functions such as up, down, left, right, and select buttons work with on Android TV with the miniclient?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-23-2018, 10:42 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
I think the two main options are the Nvidia Shield and the Xiaomi MiBox. I have a MiBox and it works fine although I haven't used it a ton for SageTV. It is currently in my daughter's room and she uses it for YouTube and Netflix. Some folks have complained about having issues with Netflix which may be related to HDCP handshaking with specific types of TVs. They are pretty cheap at $69 (only at WalMart) so not much risk if you don't use it for SageTV. You might also want to buy a USB-ethernet adapter on Amazon for about $10 as they don't have ethernet ports, just wifi. This isn't well documented but the MiBox has an IR receiver and it works with my Harmony remote. But I am not sure if all buttons work - I will have to try that out.

I haven't tried the Shield but it is the Cadillac of streaming devices. If you don't mind paying a bit more you get what is pretty much the best streaming box of any type. I think the only issue is that the newer version of the Shield does not have an IR receiver.

In terms of ripping - no need to rerip. You can point Handbrake at a folder with a DVD file structure and it will convert it to a single MP4 file with the settings that you choose for audio tracks, etc. It may take a while depending on the speed of your PC. There are other similar tools as well - I bet MakeMKV can do this as well.

And I think that there are even batch tools out there that can go through a folder and rip all of the movies that it finds, assuming that you have a structure like /DVDs/Movie1 /DVDs/Movie2. The only issue is making sure that it picks the right title as there can be several files on a DVD. This is less likely to be an issue with Movies but it might cause problems for ripping DVDs of TV shows that are all the same length.

The other thing to consider if you are buying a TV is getting a TV with AndroidTV built in. Sony and Sharp are the two brands that have this these days, at least on their mid-high end models.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-23-2018, 11:49 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
I get the remote issues. First when I went to the shield, the first thing I bought was a flirc so that I could use my huge remote. But, after a while, I started to actually use the shield remote, and found the experience to be better, and today, that's all I use. Sure, there are some things that you cannot do with a 5 button remote, but 99% of the time, the actions I need are just there (yes I had to change a little).
I am using Harmony remotes to control all the A/V equipment in the house. I know the mini-client has most of the keyboard commands programmed into it. If I could figure a way to access the keyboard commands with the Harmony remote without screwing up all of the other functions of the Mi Box, I would retire my HD300s.
__________________
Server: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU @3.00GHz; 8GB (2 x 4GB) PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz; 3-1TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s 64 MB Cache 7200RPM HDD; Windows 7; SageTV 9
Tuner: (2) HDHomeRun Prime
Client: HD300; Onkyo TX-SR607; Sony XBR-65X850D
Client: HD300; Samsung UN46B7000
Client: Nexus Player / Mini-Client; Sony KDL-32L4000
Client: SageTV Placeshifter 7
Client: SageTV Client 9
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-23-2018, 12:02 PM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
If you are using the newer hub based Harmony remotes that have Bluetooth then you should be in luck. I haven't tried this but it should work. Some info here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidTV/c...ow_i_cant_get/

You can set up a new device for the Harmony remote which is a PC Bluetooth keyboard. The MiBox will accept input from a Bluetooth keyboard. So add this to the SageTV activity and have it send the bluetooth keyboard commands. So when you press the Guide key on your Harmony you will be sending a Bluetooth keyboard Ctrl-G command to the MiBox. You likely have to remap almost all of the keys on your Harmony to the keyboard shortcuts but that is a one-time exercise. Or you might be able to do the remapping in SageTV instead.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-23-2018, 01:46 PM
TwistedMelon TwistedMelon is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 554
TODAY, if you buy any Android TV box other than NVIDIA Shield, you're throwing your money away.

At the moment it's the only one with wide availability, active support and a guarantee to be updated (already confirmed it's getting Android O).

On top of everything else, it's also by far the one with the most capable (fastest) hardware.

Like Stuckless, I'm finding that even with Flirc (which you can set up to emulate an entire keyboard or more) I'm using the Shield remote. It's FAST - super responsive and feels great in the hand.

But.... if you do want HD300 (or multiple) there should always be some listed on eBay and their prices are much lower today than 2-3 years ago (and only going down).
__________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon Inc.
While you're clicking, check out my Mini Theater custom build.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-23-2018, 01:59 PM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
I have been quite impressed with the MiBox for $69. But it is hard to get.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-23-2018, 04:17 PM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 611
I just replaced a MiBox with a Shield. I was looking for a bit more flexibility and the Amazon Prime app, which you could side load on the MiBox, but there always seems to be issues with that.

I was pleasantly surprised by the performance difference. I hadn't used the Sage Mini Client on the MiBox because it was a bit sluggish and my HD-200 was just a bit better. That seems to be gone with the Shield. Smooth and fast.

I used the Flirc on the MiBox and just plugged it into the Shield and it works exactly the same way. The only thing that I have had issue with on BOTH boxes is the Back button. Can't seem to ever get that to work.

But I use a Harmony 700 and have all of the buttons working in Sage and Kodi (again, except Back).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-23-2018, 05:13 PM
photon photon is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 158
I have been watching Ebay for a HD300. Not seeing them or not looking at the right moment.

I'm also feeling the need to get with the program and move beyond HD300. It seems that I'll have to jump in with both feet and wing it. Cost isn't really a guiding criteria as long as I get it right the first time and don't end up buying again to get it right. Performance does matter to me so it sounds like the Shield is the one to get despite the remote. They publish more detailed specs than others such as those I linked. I should find out how an air mouse works and if you can use 3rd party remotes. Flirc isn't clear to me yet how it works and what you need to do. It appears to be just a USB dongle. I'm get the impression I might be able to use a sageTV remote with it? Need more time to google and read. I may just stew on this a while and watch ebay.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:23 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by samgreco View Post
I used the Flirc on the MiBox and just plugged it into the Shield and it works exactly the same way. The only thing that I have had issue with on BOTH boxes is the Back button. Can't seem to ever get that to work.
Can you upload your Flirc configuration?
__________________
Server: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU @3.00GHz; 8GB (2 x 4GB) PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz; 3-1TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s 64 MB Cache 7200RPM HDD; Windows 7; SageTV 9
Tuner: (2) HDHomeRun Prime
Client: HD300; Onkyo TX-SR607; Sony XBR-65X850D
Client: HD300; Samsung UN46B7000
Client: Nexus Player / Mini-Client; Sony KDL-32L4000
Client: SageTV Placeshifter 7
Client: SageTV Client 9
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-24-2018, 07:05 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by photon View Post
I have been watching Ebay for a HD300. Not seeing them or not looking at the right moment.
Keep an eye on the Marketplace subforum here. There have been at least a couple for sale this month.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:09 AM
photon photon is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Keep an eye on the Marketplace subforum here. There have been at least a couple for sale this month.
Thanks. Looking now I can't tell if those are available or gone. Sending pm
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:16 AM
TwistedMelon TwistedMelon is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 554
You can use some third-party Android remote (bluetooth) with current Shield systems, but none are even half as good as the original Shield remote and none offer as many useful buttons - the shield in addition to the visible button you can see also does play/pause and volume UP and DOWN (using the capacitive strip down the middle).

If you buy an older Shield or a Shield PRO, then you have an IR receiver built-in and you can use any number of universal remotes, though I haven't looked into how extensive its built-in support is for IR codes.

Flirc is a USB keyboard/HID emulator. You pick keyboard shortcuts and assign to them specific IR codes from the remote of your choice - it only works well with remotes using NEC protocol or similar (TiVo, Samsung, etc.) If you're using a universal remote like a Harmony, there are pre-canned "Flirc" profiles that will give each button a unique workable code than the Flirc will recognize by default without teaching. Using a universal remote with Flirc will get you only about 50-80% the responsiveness/speed of the original Shield remote (depending on the brand of universal - JP1(cheap) remotes are by far the best, Harmony second and everyone else somewhere below that, regardless of price). Using an original NEC-code-sending remote (like TiVo's) will get you maybe 70-80%

Here's a tip I haven't shared anywhere else and I haven't seen anyone else share:

You should always place the Shield sitting flat (with its top side up) and its front facing the direction from which you're operating the remote from. Seems pretty obvious right? The thing is they sell a stand to place it on end and some people will attach it behind a TV, maybe with its bottom flat against the back of the TV. Using these orientations will cause issues with the remote. General lag to missed button presses and periodic lock-ups to complete failure to respond to the remote.
__________________
Bruno
Twisted Melon Inc.
While you're clicking, check out my Mini Theater custom build.

Last edited by TwistedMelon; 01-24-2018 at 09:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:37 AM
samgreco samgreco is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Villa Park, IL (Outside Chicago)
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
Can you upload your Flirc configuration?
I can do it later as I'm not home now. But honestly, you're going to have to teach it all of the codes from whatever remote you're using anyway. Especially since I can't remember what version of remote I selected in my Harmony setup.

But, as I recall, I used a combination of the (at the time I started this I had a FireTV) FTV and Kodi and keyboard controllers to make it work.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:40 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
With a shield can't you use a Harmony set up to emulate a Bluetooth keyboard, which is a HID, like I describe in post 7? Same idea as a Flirc but no hardware required, assuming that you have a Harmony remote that has Bluetooth.

From what you say about the Shield it appears that the original Shield is of more value to SageTV users than the newer Shield. Is that the case? Any downside to the original Shield?
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:08 AM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Yukon, OK
Posts: 3,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by samgreco View Post
I just replaced a MiBox with a Shield. I was looking for a bit more flexibility and the Amazon Prime app, which you could side load on the MiBox, but there always seems to be issues with that..
Not sure it will do anything but I recently made a complaint to Amazon that their Prime Video app shows as not compatible with the MiBox 3. Got a response back that they would basically send the request up the chain.
__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3
Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver
Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:29 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 6,567
Have you had any issues with Netflix on your MiBox? Some folks have complained about problems but I have never had any issues.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:31 AM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Yukon, OK
Posts: 3,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Have you had any issues with Netflix on your MiBox? Some folks have complained about problems but I have never had any issues.
I've had zero Netflix issues with our MiBox.
__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3
Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver
Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HD300 Replacement options Dargason SageTV Clients Development 29 03-27-2017 09:55 AM
Replacement UK Adaptors for HD200 and HD300 emotionnotion SageTV United Kingdom 1 06-14-2016 12:50 PM
Another promising HD300 Replacement mikejaner Hardware Support 87 02-29-2016 01:11 PM
Is this a possible HD300 replacement? stuckless General Discussion 6 11-20-2011 08:45 AM
HD300 replacement jbrandon Hardware Support 3 11-16-2011 04:45 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.