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Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 09-14-2021, 05:57 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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ATSC 3.0 and HDHR

I admittedly don't watch much "live" TV anymore but this morning watching the local news they said that at 10 am this morning people using antennas need to do a scan because they are moving their signal to a new frequency for "Next Gen TV" (ATSC 3.0). I used to closely follow this stuff and read multiple forums (this and local antenna TV and others) but I have been less than sporadic for a while.

So I'm frantically searching around this morning and there is very little info out there about what this channel is doing... but best I can tell, they won't be broadcasting in 3.0, they are just switching frequencies because eventually they will. I'm sure they aren't moving to 3.0 broadcasting (and from what I've found this morning, most major networks aren't producing content yet) since it would require everyone on antennas to buy new hardware (right?). Are there websites tracking the move so I can confirm this?

I use a couple of older-model dual-tuner HDHRs. I'm assuming I won't need to do anything yet and will get plenty of warning when broadcasts begin to switch?
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2021, 06:11 AM
emveepee emveepee is offline
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You will need a new device to get ATSC 3.0 but the ATSC transition will be long.

Martin
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  #3  
Old 09-14-2021, 07:29 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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One place to get some info is the HDHR ATSC 3.0 subforum at https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=133

So far there isn't going to be a big transition like there was in the move from NTSC to ATSC. The FCC is not giving broadcasters additional frequencies so right now they are having to rejig things to make it work, hence the changes that you mentioned. And it doesn't appear that new TVs, or at least not many of them, have ATSC 3.0 tuners. Of course for SageTV we need a tuning device that works with SageTV that can use ATSC 3.0.

The biggest benefit for us with ATSC 3.0 will be 4K broadcast TV. There is a new HDHR tuner that can pull in these channels but I don't know if anyone has them working in SageTV yet, but people do have 4K playback working so it should be doable, assuming that SageTV recognizes the tuners. Apparently some of the current 4K content is actually upscaled 1080 or 720 content, so the benefit may not be that big.

There also could be some downsides to ATSC 3.0 - I think it includes stuff like DRM.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-2021, 07:40 AM
sic0048 sic0048 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
.... best I can tell, they won't be broadcasting in 3.0, they are just switching frequencies because eventually they will.
That's correct. Odds are they are just shifting around their current transmission frequency - something that has been going on for the past several years for various reasons (FCC sold lots of frequency bands for example). Even after they start transmitting on ATSC 3.0 they will still be broadcasting on the older ATSC 1.0 format for a long time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
.... since it would require everyone on antennas to buy new hardware (right?).
TV stations will be transmitting 3.0 in the same frequency ranges that your antenna already picks up so you don't need to buy a new antenna, but you do need a new ATSC compatible turner. Some of the new TVs are starting to have these tuners built-in, but for the most part people will probably need to get an external tuner initially to watch 3.0 broadcasts. Eventually every TV sold will have a 3.0 tuner and eventually everyone will replace their older TVs with TVs that already have the tuner installed. That process might take decades however which is why the TV stations will continue to broadcast in 1.0 for the foreseeable future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
Are there websites tracking the move so I can confirm this?
https://www.atsc.org/ is another source of information. Their "Spotlight on 3.0" section of the website has a lot of good information including a rollout map that is kept up to date pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
I use a couple of older-model dual-tuner HDHRs. I'm assuming I won't need to do anything yet and will get plenty of warning when broadcasts begin to switch?
The older HDHRs don't have a ATSC 3.0 tuner in them, so they won't be able to view/record the new 3.0 broadcasts. SiliconDust does offer a couple 3.0 external tuners now (all the HDHR tuner with 4k in the name), but it doesn't work with SageTV yet. Of course you can continue to use your older tuners with the 1.0 broadcasts until they go away which won't happen for a long time.
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Last edited by sic0048; 09-15-2021 at 07:58 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2021, 07:46 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sic0048 View Post
The older HDHRs don't have a ATSC 3.0 tuner in them, so they won't be able to view/record the new 3.0 broadcasts. SiliconDust does offer a 3.0 external tuner now, but it doesn't work with SageTV yet. Of course you can continue to use your older tuners with the 2.0 broadcasts until they go away which won't happen for a long time.
Has anyone tried to see if the HDHR Connect/Flex 4K works with SageTV? And I wonder if someone can try to get it working, I would hope that it shouldn't be too hard.
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2021, 10:20 AM
CptKirk CptKirk is offline
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Looks like NPlayer tried already (post 25)

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=25

Quote:
Does not work on MiniClient or HD300. Blank screen no video/audio.... as expected.
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  #7  
Old 09-15-2021, 10:26 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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Thanks, all, that is what I suspected.

Soooooo..... here's the weird thing. I did not rescan and I am still getting the channel just fine. Their website still says "9/14 at 10 am" and the little video explanation indicates they would indeed start broadcasting 3.0 on the previous frequency (with 1.0 moving to a new frequency, hence the need to rescan).
https://local12.com/news/local/do-yo...ntucky-indiana

In fact, the website shared above (thanks!) has this story, that apparently all my locals did the switch yesterday...
https://www.atsc.org/news/major-broa...cincinnati-oh/
But I have watched 2 of the 5 listed since 10 am yesterday and they still worked on the previous frequencies.
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Drives: Several TB of internal SATA and external USB drives, no NAS or RAID or such...
Software: SageTV v9x64, stock STV with ADM.
Tuners: 4 tuners via (2) HDHomeruns (100% OTA, DIY antennas in the attic).
Clients: Several HD300s, HD200s, even an old HD100, all on wired LAN. Latest firmware for each.
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  #8  
Old 09-15-2021, 12:03 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptKirk View Post
Looks like NPlayer tried already (post 25)

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=25
You wouldn't expect a 4K file to work in extenders, at least not without transcoding. In theory it could work in SageTV client or AndroidTV with the correct setup.

But the thing I am wondering about right now is can you setup the 4K tuners in in SageTV, tune channels and will SageTV capture a file?
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  #9  
Old 09-15-2021, 01:14 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
You wouldn't expect a 4K file to work in extenders, at least not without transcoding. In theory it could work in SageTV client or AndroidTV with the correct setup.

But the thing I am wondering about right now is can you setup the 4K tuners in in SageTV, tune channels and will SageTV capture a file?
It depends I use OPENDCT and I am not sure if the built in FFMPEG is able to capture ac-4 audio.... which I doubt as it is pretty old.
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2021, 05:28 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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This seems to be an issue with Plex as well: https://forums.plex.tv/t/for-atsc-3-...audio/647770/6
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  #11  
Old 09-15-2021, 07:26 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
This seems to be an issue with Plex as well: https://forums.plex.tv/t/for-atsc-3-...audio/647770/6
EMBY beta works great the quality is outstanding and also the sound.
Channels DVR works but sound is very low.
HDHomeRun app of course works.
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Last edited by nyplayer; 09-15-2021 at 07:29 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2021, 07:11 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
EMBY beta works great the quality is outstanding and also the sound.
Channels DVR works but sound is very low.
HDHomeRun app of course works.
How many ATSC 3.0 channels do you get and how much content is actually 4K, if you can tell? And where are you located?
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2021, 03:33 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
How many ATSC 3.0 channels do you get and how much content is actually 4K, if you can tell? And where are you located?
All the Major networks broadcast in ATSC 3.0 in addition to the old standard. No 4K yet. Portland Or.
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Last edited by nyplayer; 09-16-2021 at 03:36 PM.
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