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SageTV Software Discussion related to the SageTV application produced by SageTV. Questions, issues, problems, suggestions, etc. relating to the SageTV software application should be posted here. (Check the descriptions of the other forums; all hardware related questions go in the Hardware Support forum, etc. And, post in the customizations forum instead if any customizations are active.)

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  #1  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:40 PM
Netdawg Netdawg is offline
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How to Grow to the Next Level?

I have been a long, long time believer in SageTV. I've been using Sage for at least the last 10 years. My first version was version 6. I remember back in 2011 when Google purchased. Those were trying times, but I stuck with it even to the happy day when it went opensource. I'm now running the same server for the last 8 years, windows 7, version 9, using OpenDCT with CableCard on an HDHomerun Prime. ComSkip works great. Even with the age, it runs pretty good. I have to restart the server every couple weeks and do service tweaks to OpenDCT every now and again. The server gets slow and memory seems to fill up. I have 3 Samsung 50 in tvs (720p) each connected to an HD300 or HD200. It's time to make some upgrades. I definitely need some bigger TVs (65in - 70in) getting a bright screen with 1080p would nice.

Client: With all that said, does the HD300/HD200 still do the job? is there a better, reliable miniclient (wife friendly)?

Server: Naturally my hardware is freaking old. I have several virtual instances of Ubuntu running in Hyper-V. Linux runs so much better in virtual compared to Windows. From a redundancy standpoint, I'd love to have my server virtual rather than physical. I know this is a crazy broad question, but can the SageTV gods give me some good direction. The obvious answer is buy lots of new hardware, upgrade to Windows 10, reinstall everything and keep it all physical. Could there be a better way? SageTV via Linux? Virtual verses Physical?
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2019, 09:03 PM
JustFred JustFred is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdawg View Post
I'm now running the same server for the last 8 years, windows 7, version 9, using OpenDCT with CableCard on an HDHomerun Prime. ComSkip works great. Even with the age, it runs pretty good. I have to restart the server every couple weeks and do service tweaks to OpenDCT every now and again. The server gets slow and memory seems to fill up. I have 3 Samsung 50 in tvs (720p) each connected to an HD300 or HD200. It's time to make some upgrades.
I didn't see any indication about whether you're already running 64-bit windows, but I'm confident you'll find that simply upgrading to Sage9-x64 will have a dramatic improvement with respect to past slowdowns and needing to restart the server due memory limitations.

Quote:
Client: With all that said, does the HD300/HD200 still do the job? is there a better, reliable miniclient (wife friendly)?
Only you can answer that. Personally, since all our viewing is done on a Tv, I find it impossible to beat the simplicity, reliability and performance of the HD200/300.

Quote:
Server: Naturally my hardware is freaking old. ... The obvious answer is buy lots of new hardware, upgrade to Windows 10 ...
Sage doesn't really benefit from the latest, fastest hardware (see my sig; no new h/w there!). If you're going to stick with Windows, why inflict yourself with Win10's grief?

I don't see myself dumping Win7 any time soon. The fact that MS will no longer "officially support" Win7 after next year means very little for a box that functions as an appliance. The security risks are minimal. I actually look forward to no more major OS patches and their disruption.
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System #1: Win7-64, Core2-Quad Q9400, 8 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HDHR-US (1st gen white) tuners. HD-200.
System #2: Win7-64, I7-920, 8 GB Mem, 2TB HD. Java 1.8.0_131. Sage v9.1.6.747. ClearQAM: 2x HDHR3-US tuners. HD-200.
System #3: Win7-64, I7-920, 12 GB Mem, 4TB HD. Java-64 1.8.0_141. Sage-64 v9.2.1 ATSC: 2x HVR2250; Spectrum Cable via HDPVR & USB-UIRT. 3x HD-200.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2019, 09:06 PM
Netdawg Netdawg is offline
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Good Advice

Thanks for your insight. I'm running 32 bit W7. So going to 64 bit is an option I should consider...especially if it kills the memory issues. Thanks for replying to my post. I appreciate someone helping think direction.
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  #4  
Old 03-10-2019, 09:12 PM
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tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdawg View Post
Thanks for your insight. I'm running 32 bit W7. So going to 64 bit is an option I should consider...especially if it kills the memory issues. Thanks for replying to my post. I appreciate someone helping think direction.
do you now, or have plans later, to run a set top box via Firewire? Thatís why Iím stuck with Win7 32 bit, because of the 1394 channel changing I use on one box. I have USBUIRT unit, but have never been able to make work
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  #5  
Old 03-11-2019, 07:07 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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I think that the HD200/300s still provide the best experience with SageTV. The main downside versus other options is that they don't run Netflix, etc so you will need a second source for that. But if you are buying new TVs that are larger than 60" then odds are they will have that built in.

In terms of server hardware they way to go for SageTV is unRAID as a server and run SageTV as a docker. I have been doing this for a while now and it is rock solid. unRAID is also very useful to act as a file server, VM host, and to run other docker applications.

The other downside to SageTV extenders, and to SageTV in general, is that we are moving to a 4K world and the extenders don't support 4K and there aren't really any encoders that support 4K.

You mention buying bigger TVs that are 1080p - can you even buy larger TVs that are 1080p rather than 4K?
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:54 PM
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Thomas Wischgol Thomas Wischgol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
The other downside to SageTV extenders, and to SageTV in general, is that we are moving to a 4K world and the extenders don't support 4K and there aren't really any encoders that support 4K.

You mention buying bigger TVs that are 1080p - can you even buy larger TVs that are 1080p rather than 4K?
A 4K TV would still be just as good at displaying 1080p. I use a PC-based client running at full 4K. But the content I am watching is pretty much all 1080p or less. But I prefer driving the display at 4K so I have more pixels for looking at pictures. I am not sure you can really notice all that much difference for video material. But I do notice that it is smoother as in less stuttering when running at 4K for larger TVs (mine is 70 inch). For all the smaller TVs in the house I use less powerful PC clients or HD200/300s.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:40 PM
Netdawg Netdawg is offline
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Great Discussion

This is exactly the type of discussion I was hoping to start. SageTV HD200/300s have always been good, but it's the next level I want to position myself for. I have friends that use traditional DirecTV and Cable STBs. I must admit that there picture is much more vibrant and brighter than mine. Maybe it's just 10 year old TVs. I crave the bright, vibrant, smooth picture they have.

You all have given me some buzz words to Google. I'll definitely check out unRAID and docker. Those are new to me. In the past when I try to connect a PC to the TV even with a Windows remote, it's always been kinda clumsy. That's why I was interested in an extender solution that is stable and provides a picture better than the HD200/300's.

I do watch Netflix. My solution for getting Netflix on Sage is to use PlayLater to download the series I want to binge watch and then watch as if it was a regular recording.

As far as the server, it seems having something I can quickly restore is important. My box now doesn't have the capture cards it used in the olden days. All encoding is done via HDHomerun Prime by design so that the hardware is physically separate from the server.

One more comment. I do have a Plex server. I like how it makes playing video smooth, I really don't like that there's no way to watch live TV. That's really handy when the weather is bad or for a group of folks that wants to watch breaking news. For that reason, I'm sticking with Sage, but I'd like it to be impressive when you sit in front of the TV.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:02 PM
jpwegas jpwegas is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Wischgol View Post
A 4K TV would still be just as good at displaying 1080p. I use a PC-based client running at full 4K. But the content I am watching is pretty much all 1080p or less. But I prefer driving the display at 4K so I have more pixels for looking at pictures. I am not sure you can really notice all that much difference for video material. But I do notice that it is smoother as in less stuttering when running at 4K for larger TVs (mine is 70 inch). For all the smaller TVs in the house I use less powerful PC clients or HD200/300s.
We have a decent amount of below 1080 content (DVDs mostly) and the scaling on our 6 month old 4K TV (a Vizio) doesn't look so great for lower resolution content. The 4K looks great for the gaming systems we have but if I was using it only for Sage with an HD300 I would have just stuck with a 1080 TV.

--John
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:35 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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I recently got my first 4K TVs, although they are not more expensive models. Maybe it is my imagination but I think that the 1080p (or lower) content looks a bit sharper on my 4K TV.

Plex is good for some stuff but my TV watching is primarily sports and nothing beats SageTV for skipping around files to minimize the time it takes to watch sporting events.

To me it is no longer a big deal that SageTV doesn't integrate Netflix et al since you can buy Rokus or FireTVs for next to nothing and that is assuming that your TV doesn't access them through its built in apps.
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Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:23 PM
Netdawg Netdawg is offline
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Thanks!

Thanks! I appreciate the insight on the 4K TVs and the built in apps. It would be nice to have that feature built in to the TV for impromptu streaming of shows.
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:27 PM
Netdawg Netdawg is offline
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At one time I had USBUIRT working back when my provider was DirecTV. If I remember correctly, I went DB9 (com port) to USB and USB into the DirecTV STB. It seems like there was a trick to get the STB to accept commands from a serial port. After that it was fine. I only used it for a year or so. Then, upgraded from HD-PVR to HDHomerun Prime/CableCard. It is possible, but like all things requires trial and error along with several trips to the local computer store for the correct connectors/adapters.
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:33 PM
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Thomas Wischgol Thomas Wischgol is offline
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I would expect that the brightness issue can be attributed to the age of your TV. The fluorescent backlighting just does not have the same capabilities as LEDs.

As far as scaling is concerned, I am pretty happy with the scaling the ATI graphics card does for lower resolution content. I have not yet compared it to the picture quality of an HD300 but obviously the ATI card has a lot more compute power to throw at it and improve picture quality.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2019, 06:25 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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You can watch live TV with Plex.

https://www.plex.tv/tv/

You just need to have a Plex Pass.

https://www.plex.tv/plex-pass/ It is $4.99 a month so you can try it and see if you like it.
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Server: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU @3.00GHz; 8GB (2 x 4GB) PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz; 3-1TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s 64 MB Cache 7200RPM HDD; Windows 7; SageTV 9
Tuner: (2) HDHomeRun Prime
Client: HD300; Onkyo TX-SR607; Sony XBR-65X850D
Client: HD300; Samsung UN46B7000
Client: Nexus Player / Mini-Client; Sony KDL-32L4000
Client: SageTV Placeshifter 7
Client: SageTV Client 9
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:13 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdawg View Post
Thanks! I appreciate the insight on the 4K TVs and the built in apps. It would be nice to have that feature built in to the TV for impromptu streaming of shows.
There are some TVs that have built in AndroidTV - Sony TVs for example. On such TVs you should be able to use SageTV without any external hardware, just install the SageTV AndroidTV app.

The TVs that I bought are Roku TVs. They are made by Sharp, but the Sharp brand was bought by a Chinese company a few years ago so they are "lower end" TVs but I haven't had any issues with them. The only downside is that some services that I use don't have Roku apps - namely Crave which is a Canadian competitor of Netflix.
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #15  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:22 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
There are some TVs that have built in AndroidTV - Sony TVs for example. On such TVs you should be able to use SageTV without any external hardware, just install the SageTV AndroidTV app.
I have a Sony with the Android OS and I hate it. It just decides to reboot whenever it wants, even in the middle of watching a show. Sorry I did not go with Samsung.
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Server: Intel Core i5-3330 CPU @3.00GHz; 8GB (2 x 4GB) PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz; 3-1TB WD Blue SATA 6.0Gb/s 64 MB Cache 7200RPM HDD; Windows 7; SageTV 9
Tuner: (2) HDHomeRun Prime
Client: HD300; Onkyo TX-SR607; Sony XBR-65X850D
Client: HD300; Samsung UN46B7000
Client: Nexus Player / Mini-Client; Sony KDL-32L4000
Client: SageTV Placeshifter 7
Client: SageTV Client 9
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2019, 04:13 PM
Netdawg Netdawg is offline
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Thanks!

Thanks everyone for the insight. You've given me a lot to think about. I had no idea that SageTV android app was available. I heard plex was supporting live tv now, but didn't know much about it. I'll pursue all these avenues. Thanks again!
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:49 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkGuy View Post
I have a Sony with the Android OS and I hate it. It just decides to reboot whenever it wants, even in the middle of watching a show. Sorry I did not go with Samsung.
Good to know. I won't worry about paying extra for a TV with AndroidTV. I still prefer HD200s and HD300s as my clients but they can't do 4K. That doesn't matter to me yet but it may at some point in the future.
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