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  #1  
Old 08-02-2020, 09:47 PM
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xjim1 xjim1 is offline
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Need Help Deciding New Hardware

You may have heard of the recent demise of my crusty/trusty file server. I've been trying to decide whether to buy a refurb unit or go with a new mobo and keep the case I have. The unit will act primarily to serve up my video library. For years it was an XP box with a single core Athlon processor, which worked just fine for that one and only purpose(No Sage software involved).

Most of the refurb units I see are typical business desktop systems. Great if you don't need a lot of drive storage. But then I found a (probably more than)slightly used server with the capacity I need and a case to drool over. And with a nifty Xeon cpu to boot. The price is definitely in my range.
https://www.newegg.com/hp-z-series-z...9SIAC0F8X67635

On the other hand, I also like the case I already have; plenty of drive slots (up to 8), a working PSU, and well it looks darn sexy, especially with a potted plant on it. Looking at a motherboard replacement would also require a new processor and memory, at minimum, coming in a good $100+ more; stretching my expand-o-matic budget. Some years ago I swore off building my own anymore; too much work and a headache to boot. But I have to admit the research part the past few days has been a bit of fun.
https://www.newegg.com/p/1JW-00EE-00035
https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5...82E16819116992

Sooo, should I keep my case and build a new system, or toss the case into the boneyard and take my chances with a plug-n-play refurb server in a fancy chassis?
Any and all ideas welcome.
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2020, 12:02 AM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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When I plan for a server, I go with what will get the job done and use the least amount of power when idle. I suspect the Xeon will not be a good pick in that regard as it has twice the TDP as your Haswell pick, but that's not definitive. I have 3 Haswell CPU's running in my server rack and they do a decent job at being low power at idle. My only complaint about them is a common one: this generation and Broadwell have all the power regulation on the CPU, so they do run a little hotter than the previous generation. This typically just means you will not get boost clock speeds for as long and in some cases (probably not this one), the stock heatsink isn't sufficient for some motherboards. Weird, I know, but it has something to do with the motherboard not implementing an Intel feature correctly.
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Capture: 1x Ceton InfiniTV 4 (ClearQAM), 2x Ceton InfiniTV 6, 1x BM1000-HDMI, 1x BM3500-HDMI.

Clients: 1x HD300 (Living Room), 1x HD200 (Master Bedroom).
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2020, 05:28 AM
KeithAbbott KeithAbbott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
When I plan for a server, I go with what will get the job done and use the least amount of power when idle.
For similar reasons, I went with a chip with a 35W TDP. I calculated the electricity cost difference between using a 35W chip and a 65W chip, it's about $45/year for me. Granted, it's probably something less than that since those chips will not be run at full throttle all the time. Since I don't use comskip, and I don't transcode, I don't require an extremely powerful processor.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2020, 05:15 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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I kind of go the other direction on this, I throw a little money at it with the hopes that I won't have to touch it for 7 to 10 years. If you are using comskip or doing any transcoding, then it pays to have some horsepower, and with the newer processors they do throttle down nicely when not under a load.

Do have a Microcenter store anywhere near you?

www.microcenter.com

Sometimes you can find a package mobo/cpu combo for a great price.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2020, 08:59 PM
Zogg Zogg is offline
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The AMD Ryzen 5 3600 is priced at $155 at a lot of places. I recently purchased one with an inexpensive B450 motherboard and set up a new unRaid server with it. It's very fast and runs great. Lots of bang for the buck.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2020, 12:06 AM
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xjim1 xjim1 is offline
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Well so far it looks like it's 4-0 new mobo.
Looks like the Xeon tdp stat is 130w to the 4590's 84. I hadn't given too much thought to that. One thing I've not been able to decipher is a processor's 'non-load' frequency. Nothing in the specs seems to note this. Is that pretty much assumed these days on both Core and Xeon cpu's? I'm definitely sensitive to the cooling capabilities of a case, which is why I'm so impressed with the Z420's cooling conduits. I can't match that with my case.

I do use Handbrake a lot and been using it on my new-to-me Sage server (gen 3 Core). Compared to my old file server, it's like getting running water in the house after hauling it from the well for years. But I would like to off-load that to my file server again. The Xeon and Core 4590 chips are comparable in that regard.

I'll take a look at Microcenter. They have a shop down in Denver. It'd be nice to actually walk into a computer store again (remember CompUSA?).

I'm still mad at AMD for playing musical sockets years ago. I should probably let them out of the dog house, as I'm no fan of Intel, either. It's just where the dart landed.

Well, keep those cards and letters comin'. I need to hear some pro/con refurb thoughts.
Thanks much.
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:16 AM
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SHS SHS is offline
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That what I build not to long ago a big upgrade
Windows 10 Pro
Harddrive Pooling Software = Drive Bender
Antec Performance Series P101 Silent Black/0.8 mm SPCC ATX Mid Tower Case with 8 x 3.5" HDD / 2 x 2.5" SSD Removable Trays (I chose this case because it has 8 3.5 bay)
Corsair CX Series CX750 (New) CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non-Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Intel Core i3-9100 Coffee Lake 4-Core 3.6 GHz(4.2 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W BX80684I39100 Desktop Processor
MSI B360 GAMING PLUS LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel B360 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Desktop Memory Model F4-2666C15D-16GVR
Corsair Hydro Series, H60 2018 (CW-9060036-WW), 120mm Radiator, Single 120mm PWM Fan, Liquid CPU Cooler
LG Black Blu-ray Burner SATA WH16NS40
Seagate BarraCuda 2.5" 250GB SATA III 3D TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) ZA250CM1A002 (Bootdrive)
Used LSI SAS 9211-8i 8-port 6Gb/s Internal IT-MODE and Cables (NOTE: Buy the right cable you need forward cable)
2x Supermicro CBL-0097L-03 51/51cm SFF-8087 To 4x Sata Forward Breakout + Sideband
4x Seagate IronWolf ST8000VN004 8TB 7200 RPM 256MB Cache SATA (With plans to add 4 more over course of this year)
USB 2.0 4 Ports PCI Slot Bracket
Molex to SATA Power Y Splitter Adaptor Cable Lead 2 Way 4 Pin To 2 x 15 Pin
Re-used Hauppauge WinTV quad-HD
Re-used other Hauppauge device
Re-used Hauppauge USB HD-PVR 2 and PCIe Colossus 2
Re-used 128GB SSD for Caching Transcoding temporary path
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:05 PM
emveepee emveepee is offline
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The biggest factors for me right now in a system is how well does it do hardware transcoding and will h/w transcoding easily work in docker on linux in the future. Handbrake as a tool and you might consider if migrations to Plex, Emby, jellyfin, Channels DVR or NextPVR are in your future. I expect OpenDCT will also use this with the correct knowledge of how to set it up.

The only caveat is I have idea if dav1d is going to make many systems obsolete or not.

Martin
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2020, 06:14 PM
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SHS SHS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emveepee View Post
The biggest factors for me right now in a system is how well does it do hardware transcoding and will h/w transcoding easily work in docker on linux in the future. Handbrake as a tool and you might consider if migrations to Plex, Emby, jellyfin, Channels DVR or NextPVR are in your future. I expect OpenDCT will also use this with the correct knowledge of how to set it up.

The only caveat is I have idea if dav1d is going to make many systems obsolete or not.

Martin
It really going to depend on your source input
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2020, 06:25 PM
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KryptoNyte KryptoNyte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjim1 View Post
I'll take a look at Microcenter. They have a shop down in Denver. It'd be nice to actually walk into a computer store again (remember CompUSA?).
Oh yeah, I remember CompUSA. It is nice to walk into a store where they still sell real computer hardware. At this point, it's nice to walk into any retail store.
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  #11  
Old 08-04-2020, 07:18 PM
emveepee emveepee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post
It really going to depend on your source input
Transcoding is not only input. Flexbility is also about streaming to compatible devices, streaming to remote clients with low bandwidth and who really knows how someone will use a PVR in the coming years. h264 is still a challenge for many refurbished business PC's even with earlier versions of QuickSync.

Martin
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2020, 06:32 PM
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xjim1 xjim1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post
That what I build not to long ago a big upgrade
...
Antec Performance Series P101 Silent Black/0.8 mm SPCC ATX Mid Tower Case with 8 x 3.5" HDD / 2 x 2.5" SSD Removable Trays (I chose this case because it has 8 3.5 bay)...
An impressive setup. I started looking at current case offerings and seeing how much has changed since I last built a system. Looks like a lot more modularity and an increase focus on cooling (guessing that gaming is the biggest market for cases anymore, larger ones anyway). Makes me realize I'm just being sentimental about saving what I have. I think being practical, and what I want to spend, trying my luck with another refurb system(have 2 already) is the way to go.
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2020, 06:58 PM
xjim1's Avatar
xjim1 xjim1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emveepee View Post
The biggest factors for me right now in a system is how well does it do hardware transcoding and will h/w transcoding easily work in docker on linux in the future. Handbrake as a tool and you might consider if migrations to Plex, Emby, jellyfin, Channels DVR or NextPVR are in your future. I expect OpenDCT will also use this with the correct knowledge of how to set it up.

The only caveat is I have idea if dav1d is going to make many systems obsolete or not.

Martin
As a slow adopter to newer technologies, I'm comfortable with allowing things to mature a bit before I decide to migrate. But with decreasing variety of content and the continuous erosion in video quality I'm seeing on OTA channels, my Sage recording has slowed considerably over the past several months. So who knows what the next year or so will bring. But I've got enough dvd's squirrelled away on old hard drives to keep me busy recoding for the foreseeable future.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2020, 07:26 AM
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SHS SHS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emveepee View Post
Transcoding is not only input. Flexbility is also about streaming to compatible devices, streaming to remote clients with low bandwidth and who really knows how someone will use a PVR in the coming years. h264 is still a challenge for many refurbished business PC's even with earlier versions of QuickSync.

Martin
I was ref the app them self keep in mind min of us still relay on analog source that where things get a limited to only a few apps unlike ATSC and DVB
How ever the best for now is QuickSync as better support across more OS platform then Nvidia and AMD

Last edited by SHS; 08-06-2020 at 07:34 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2020, 04:36 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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One of the other reasons to get a new case is to have newer types of USB ports on the case like USB 3 and USB C. Those can be useful for external hard drives, USB memory sticks, etc.
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Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:48 AM
Malfunction Malfunction is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogg View Post
The AMD Ryzen 5 3600 is priced at $155 at a lot of places. I recently purchased one with an inexpensive B450 motherboard and set up a new unRaid server with it. It's very fast and runs great. Lots of bang for the buck.
I'm really happy with the Ryzen 5 2600. AMDs give you great bang for the buck and low power consumption.
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  #17  
Old 10-01-2020, 12:32 AM
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tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
I kind of go the other direction on this, I throw a little money at it with the hopes that I won't have to touch it for 7 to 10 years. If you are using comskip or doing any transcoding, then it pays to have some horsepower, and with the newer processors they do throttle down nicely when not under a load.

Do have a Microcenter store anywhere near you?

www.microcenter.com

Sometimes you can find a package mobo/cpu combo for a great price.
Do you ever render any Handbrake transcodes on your Sage server? With my lowly Athlon Quad core, Iím not sure if Sage could operate very well while Handbrake was running a days worth of transcodes.
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  #18  
Old 10-01-2020, 12:45 AM
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tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post
That what I build not to long ago a big upgrade
Windows 10 Pro
Harddrive Pooling Software = Drive Bender
Antec Performance Series P101 Silent Black/0.8 mm SPCC ATX Mid Tower Case with 8 x 3.5" HDD / 2 x 2.5" SSD Removable Trays (I chose this case because it has 8 3.5 bay)
Corsair CX Series CX750 (New) CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non-Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Intel Core i3-9100 Coffee Lake 4-Core 3.6 GHz(4.2 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W BX80684I39100 Desktop Processor
MSI B360 GAMING PLUS LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel B360 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Desktop Memory Model F4-2666C15D-16GVR
Corsair Hydro Series, H60 2018 (CW-9060036-WW), 120mm Radiator, Single 120mm PWM Fan, Liquid CPU Cooler
LG Black Blu-ray Burner SATA WH16NS40
Seagate BarraCuda 2.5" 250GB SATA III 3D TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) ZA250CM1A002 (Bootdrive)
Used LSI SAS 9211-8i 8-port 6Gb/s Internal IT-MODE and Cables (NOTE: Buy the right cable you need forward cable)
2x Supermicro CBL-0097L-03 51/51cm SFF-8087 To 4x Sata Forward Breakout + Sideband
4x Seagate IronWolf ST8000VN004 8TB 7200 RPM 256MB Cache SATA (With plans to add 4 more over course of this year)
USB 2.0 4 Ports PCI Slot Bracket
Molex to SATA Power Y Splitter Adaptor Cable Lead 2 Way 4 Pin To 2 x 15 Pin
Re-used Hauppauge WinTV quad-HD
Re-used other Hauppauge device
Re-used Hauppauge USB HD-PVR 2 and PCIe Colossus 2
Re-used 128GB SSD for Caching Transcoding temporary path
Do you do any simultaneous Handbrake conversions while running Sage media extenders? Any CPU problems with that?
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2020, 08:24 AM
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SHS SHS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
Do you do any simultaneous Handbrake conversions while running Sage media extenders? Any CPU problems with that?
No and also have other apps run along side of SageTV like NextPVR and Emby going to and from time to retest Plex new update
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  #20  
Old 10-01-2020, 11:06 AM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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I switched from using Handbrake to VideoProc because Handbrake always took my I7 4 core processor to 100%. VideoProc uses much less CPU.
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Client: (2) HD300
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Client: (2) Mini-Client, Fire TV Stick 4K
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