SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-13-2012, 09:38 PM
mkanet's Avatar
mkanet mkanet is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,359
Considering feasibility of WMC + Ceton Echo solution

I dont see myself using SageTV once Comcast switches to encrypted local TV channels; since half of my tuners will stop working. So, looking at the feasibility of upgrading to a WMC+Ceton Echo solution.

I'm curious what the pro/cons be? What kinds of features would I be missing or gaining? Would I still have integrated IMDB+Movie Trailer lookup and youtube playback capability like I do on SageTV

Also, I would also need a way to have an Internet-based client to replace SageTV placeshifter. Of course, I would need to be able to watch any cablecard based TV channel or media file remotely. Whatever the solution is, it would have to be something that I can install on my Windows 7 Professional 64bit work PC.

What would the minimum hardware required be (besides the Windows/WMC software)? Maybe a HDHomeRun Prime + Ceton Echo?
__________________
Upgraded to Comcast X1 + Netflix/Amazon Video streaming

***RIP SageTV***
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
MattHelm MattHelm is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkanet View Post
I dont see myself using SageTV once Comcast switches to encrypted local TV channels; since half of my tuners will stop working. So, looking at the feasibility of upgrading to a WMC+Ceton Echo solution.

I'm curious what the pro/cons be? What kinds of features would I be missing or gaining? Would I still have integrated IMDB+Movie Trailer lookup and youtube playback capability like I do on SageTV

Also, I would also need a way to have an Internet-based client to replace SageTV placeshifter. Of course, I would need to be able to watch any cablecard based TV channel or media file remotely. Whatever the solution is, it would have to be something that I can install on my Windows 7 Professional 64bit work PC.

What would the minimum hardware required be (besides the Windows/WMC software)? Maybe a HDHomeRun Prime + Ceton Echo?
If you are going to get a Prime anyway, why not just use SageTV?

IMHO:
Pros - ALL channels you subscribe to can be played back. (SageTV will only playback "copy freely", but that is most of the "non-premium" channels)

Cons - WMC. (That has to be the worse interface I've seen in my life!!!) If you MB dies, all your "Premium" recording will be lost. (they are locked to the MB)
__________________
Server #1= AMD A10-5800, 8G RAM, F2A85-M PRO, 12TB, HDHomerun Prime, HDHR, Colossus (Playback - HD-200)
Server #2= AMD X2 3800+, 2G RAM, M2NPV-VM, 2TB, 3x HDHR OTA (Playback - HD-200)

Last edited by MattHelm; 12-15-2012 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Chnage "copy any" to "copy freely"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-14-2012, 12:04 PM
darcilicious's Avatar
darcilicious darcilicious is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Venus
Posts: 1,306
Also, I'm not aware of any solutions (short of something like Splashtop) that allow remote streaming of live/recorded tv via WMC (but it's been a while since I've looked into it too).
__________________
SageTV Server 7.1.x w/Gemstone and Plex Home Theater v1.0.10 w/PlexPass
HD-PVR w/v1.5.6 drivers / Hauppauge IR blaster / FiOS Extreme HD / Motorola QIP6200 / SPDIF+720p Fixed Output
on HP Media Center 8400F (Phenom 9500 QuadCore 2.2GHz, nVidia GeForce 8500 GT)
via Olevia 247TFHD/Onyko TX-SR606/Harmony 550/HP MediaSmart EX490 WHS w/12TB
Plex Media Server v0.9.9.5 on HP Touchsmart Envy 23 d16qd
Sonos Play:3, Connect / SimpleTV v2 / Roku 2 XS+Plex / iPhone 5 / iPad 2
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-14-2012, 01:06 PM
mkanet's Avatar
mkanet mkanet is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,359
Most of my Premium TV channels are flagged with "copy once". So, I "could" use the Prime as a replacement for my clearQAM HDHRs. That might work as a possible solution if my clearQAM HDHR's become obsolete if Comcast encrypts my local TV channels.

Thanks for the tip. It's been a while, but, last I checked, the Prime hack for sageTV was a bit clucky and a bit of a hassle to setup. Maybe it's gotten easier to setup and much more solid/stable these days. At least, it could be an option to consider.

PS: I actually like the WMC interface. The main "con" I think may be a problem is having an Internet compatible streaming client comparable to placeshifter.

I'm hoping that Silicondust may offer a solution (similar to Boxee) to keep my current HDHR clearQAM tunes working if/when Comcast adds encryption to local TV channels.. Then, I would be able to just keep my entire SageTV setup as-is; which works exceptionally well, knock on wood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHelm View Post
If you are going to get a Prime anyway, why not just use SageTV?

IMHO:
Pros - ALL channels you subscribe to can be played back. (SageTV will only playback "copy any", but that is most of the "non-premium" channels)

Cons - WMC. (That has to be the worse interface I've seen in my life!!!) If you MB dies, all your "Premium" recording will be lost. (they are locked to the MB)
__________________
Upgraded to Comcast X1 + Netflix/Amazon Video streaming

***RIP SageTV***
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-14-2012, 04:49 PM
Tiki's Avatar
Tiki Tiki is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southwest Florida, USA
Posts: 1,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkanet View Post
Most of my Premium TV channels are flagged with "copy once". So, I "could" use the Prime as a replacement for my clearQAM HDHRs. That might work as a possible solution if my clearQAM HDHR's become obsolete if Comcast encrypts my local TV channels.
Careful - "copy once" doesn't work with Sage.

Copy Freely = Works with Sage, can copy and play back from anywhere and even re-encode for other devices (no restrictions).
Copy Once = Does not Work with Sage. Can only playback through WMC and only on the PC that originally encoded it (I think you can also playback through a Media Center Extender - XBox 360 or Ceton Echo, but still need the original PC).
Copy Never = Does not Work with Sage. Live Playback through WMC only. Cannot record and playback later - even in WMC. This is usually reserved for certain PPV movies and events.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkanet View Post
Thanks for the tip. It's been a while, but, last I checked, the Prime hack for sageTV was a bit clucky and a bit of a hassle to setup. Maybe it's gotten easier to setup and much more solid/stable these days. At least, it could be an option to consider.
I didn't find the Prime (+ Sage DCT) any more difficult to setup in Sage than other tuners like the HDHomerun or HVR-2250. My Sage box currently has 9 tuners (mix and match of products) and so far the Prime has been the most reliable - no missed or unplayable recordings to date (knock on wood).

Though there are some folks posting about problems with corrupted recordings that are playable in VLC, but not in Sage. This appears to be a result of bad broadcasts that the Sage splitter can't interpret (but VLC can). The newest version of SageDCT has an option that uses VLC to fix the stream and re-encode on the fly so that Sage can handle it (you need to have the free VLC software installed on your PC, and click a check box in the SageDCT configuration to enable it. I haven't needed this feature, but some others have.
__________________
Server: Athlon II X4 630 CPU, Gigabyte MA770T-UD3P (AM3) Motherboard, VisionTek Radeon HD4670 PCIe w/ Component output to 50" CRT Rear-Projection HDTV (Mitsubishi), Win7-64Bit (Home Premium), 4GB RAM
Capture Devices (8 tuners): Colossus (x1), HD-PVR (x1), HDHR Prime (x2)
,USBUIRT (multi-zone)
Source:
Comcast Cable
Primary Client: Server Other Clients: (1) HD200, (1) HD300
Retired Equipment: MediaMVP, PVR150 (x2), PVR150MCE,
HDHR, HVR-2250
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:14 PM
mkanet's Avatar
mkanet mkanet is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,359
Yes, that was implied. If I used the Prime, I'd only use it mainly to replace my clearQAM HDHRs (they aren't used for any of my "copy once" flagged channels). I already have a much better solution for anything the Prime/standard HDHR can't handle. See my sig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
Careful - "copy once" doesn't work with Sage.
__________________
Upgraded to Comcast X1 + Netflix/Amazon Video streaming

***RIP SageTV***
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-15-2012, 01:14 PM
MattHelm MattHelm is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkanet View Post
Yes, that was implied. If I used the Prime, I'd only use it mainly to replace my clearQAM HDHRs ...
Depending where you live, you could hook them to an antenna and use them for "network" TV.


12 devices!!!! How many people are watching? (Just wondering, you don't have to answer)
__________________
Server #1= AMD A10-5800, 8G RAM, F2A85-M PRO, 12TB, HDHomerun Prime, HDHR, Colossus (Playback - HD-200)
Server #2= AMD X2 3800+, 2G RAM, M2NPV-VM, 2TB, 3x HDHR OTA (Playback - HD-200)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-16-2012, 07:52 PM
Skybolt's Avatar
Skybolt Skybolt is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stony Brook, NY
Posts: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkanet View Post
... I'm curious what the pro/cons be? What kinds of features would I be missing or gaining? Would I still have integrated IMDB+Movie Trailer lookup and youtube playback capability like I do on SageTV
This pertains to WMC in general, the Echo may support more in the future, but right now it's a standard MCx at best.

I think you need to re-adjust your expectations when it comes to WMC. Nothing compares to SageTv. And I mean nothing. But Sage doesn't fully support CableCard either. So take this for what it is worth.

Information on the movie/show's yes. IMDB, no.
youtube, no.
Trailers, Media Browser (Plugin) supports it to some extent.

Quote:
Also, I would also need a way to have an Internet-based client to replace SageTV placeshifter. Of course, I would need to be able to watch any cablecard based TV channel or media file remotely. Whatever the solution is, it would have to be something that I can install on my Windows 7 Professional 64bit work PC.
Maybe, a plugin called "Remote Potato" supports a remote web browser for programming and such, and recently claims to support remote TV. I haven't tried it yet. So I can not coment on it. I do use it for scheduling and such, and it works good for that. Ceton also has their companion app which does the same and acts as a remote for extenders as well. No remote viewing.

Quote:
What would the minimum hardware required be (besides the Windows/WMC software)? Maybe a HDHomeRun Prime + Ceton Echo?
Min hardware is simple. I have two setups, one is an atom 525 based with SSD and 4gb ram. Works real nice. The other is a VM based, and that works a little better, but has it's requirements as well. I am still testing extenders and setups. But the Prime is definetly the center of it.


In general, WMC, doesn't support much as compaired to Sage.
A PC running 7MC will prety much do exactly what a Sage client can do, but the extender aspect is quite differant. MKV playback is limited to ~20mbps video stream and no DTS, only AC-3. And the extenders will not play and direct rip's to Video_ts or ISO etc, with out transcoding.

The Echo claimed to be quite a bit more at one point but now is only a MCx. There is talk about supporting more.

Oh yeah, then theres the DRM thing. You can't watch DRM content on anything other then the original PC, or extender from that PC.

Ok that's all of the bad. There are plugins which make the bad less bad, but those are basics. All in all I have found workarounds for most and really like having full HD being recorded and played for TV. Much nicer then anything else I have used.

I still use Sage for my ripped content at this point. I am not ripping BD, so only my existing DVD rips, which I don't really watch much. I am switching to BD only, so my BD player is getting a workout for now.

If you haven't done so already, check out AVS, and start ~ page 100 or so and that will give you the gist of the Echo.

Last edited by Skybolt; 12-16-2012 at 07:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-17-2012, 08:42 AM
phenixdragon phenixdragon is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHelm View Post
Cons - WMC. (That has to be the worse interface I've seen in my life!!!) If you MB dies, all your "Premium" recording will be lost. (they are locked to the MB)
What are you talking about? WMC has the best UI there is out there. Nothing has been close ever since it had came out. But this is all personal preference.

And you don't lose your "premium" recordings unless your provider marks the recordings with the copy once or copy once or copy never. Comcast, or at least in my area, has never done this. It is marked copy freely and I have re-installed Window many times, various motherboards and other hardware.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:18 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenixdragon View Post
What are you talking about? WMC has the best UI there is out there. Nothing has been close ever since it had came out. But this is all personal preference.
True, after using Sage for this long, I hated how WMC presents recordings. RecordedTV HD was better but I still prefer Sage, it's much less wasted space and probably most importantly the sorting options are far, far better in Sage. One show I was watching it was nearly impossible in WMC to tell what the correct order was, while in Sage it's automatically (based on my sorting options) displayed in the right order.

Quote:
And you don't lose your "premium" recordings unless your provider marks the recordings with the copy once or copy once or copy never. Comcast, or at least in my area, has never done this. It is marked copy freely and I have re-installed Window many times, various motherboards and other hardware.
If everything's copy freely, you can use Sage.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:26 AM
jimz06 jimz06 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 68
I'm using Sage and WMC with the Prime and the only thing I feel that WMC offers is the ability to access and record Comcast premium channels (Encore, HBO), which is the only thing I use it for.

I'm struggling with WMC now because of a motherboard change. If you do searches on the various PlayReady and DRM fixes, which are essentially kluges, it's remarkable how much MS makes investing in upgraded PC (their bread and butter) hardware an unpleasant user experience. While I'm on a roll...how disappointing the first time I tried to do a recording of a show-in-progress on WMC only to find out that it will save only from the actual broadcast time the record button was clicked, i.e. not the entire buffered recording. So I limit my WMC usage as a stopgap for the occasional premium recording. On the positive side, WMC allowed me to return a rarely used cablebox in favor of an Xbox for viewing those premium channels live.
__________________
Jim

SageTV7, Windows 7, Comcast, HDHR Prime(SageDCT), HD300
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:24 AM
MattHelm MattHelm is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenixdragon View Post
... And you don't lose your "premium" recordings unless your provider marks the recordings with the copy once or copy once or copy never. Comcast, or at least in my area, has never done this. It is marked copy freely and I have re-installed Window many times, various motherboards and other hardware.
As far as I know, all cable companies now mark "Premiums" as "Copy Once" or "Copy Never". List some if they don't, I may move there!!!
__________________
Server #1= AMD A10-5800, 8G RAM, F2A85-M PRO, 12TB, HDHomerun Prime, HDHR, Colossus (Playback - HD-200)
Server #2= AMD X2 3800+, 2G RAM, M2NPV-VM, 2TB, 3x HDHR OTA (Playback - HD-200)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:28 AM
MattHelm MattHelm is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenixdragon View Post
What are you talking about? WMC has the best UI there is out there. Nothing has been close ever since it had came out. But this is all personal preference.
Like you said, personal preference. To me, the GUI is always in the way. I don't run a DVR to look at pretty pictures, but to watch TV. Even the SageTV 7 update to me was the wrong direction, but that was when I was using slower hardware. Now that I have faster hardware, SageTV 7 is OK. (please note, I'm talking the GUI, not the changes to the software)
__________________
Server #1= AMD A10-5800, 8G RAM, F2A85-M PRO, 12TB, HDHomerun Prime, HDHR, Colossus (Playback - HD-200)
Server #2= AMD X2 3800+, 2G RAM, M2NPV-VM, 2TB, 3x HDHR OTA (Playback - HD-200)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:23 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,748
I thought I liked the WMC interface- until I actually tried to use it. My complaints are basically what stanger staid. There's too much wasted space and I've really struggled with the sorting options.

More generally, it seems like the WMC interface isn't very good if you have a large number of recordings. I haven't tried RecordedTV HD. It looks like a big improvement, although I'm probably not going to be willing to shell out the $100 unless I'm ready to shelve my Sage system.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:42 PM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHelm View Post
As far as I know, all cable companies now mark "Premiums" as "Copy Once" or "Copy Never". List some if they don't, I may move there!!!
Imon has their entire HD lineup (save the ala carte channels) in Clear QAM and everything else (well probably except those ala carte channels which I don't subscribe to) marked Copy Freely.

:Cool:
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:22 PM
Skybolt's Avatar
Skybolt Skybolt is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stony Brook, NY
Posts: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
I thought I liked the WMC interface- until I actually tried to use it. My complaints are basically what stanger staid. There's too much wasted space and I've really struggled with the sorting options.

More generally, it seems like the WMC interface isn't very good if you have a large number of recordings. I haven't tried RecordedTV HD. It looks like a big improvement, although I'm probably not going to be willing to shell out the $100 unless I'm ready to shelve my Sage system.
Recorded Tv HD, works great for recordings, almost as good as Sage IMO. Media Browser needs SO much tweaking, but is worht it when you get it right. I don't think it's $100, more like $50, but it's well worth it in the end.

I actually have removed from all of my interfaces "Sports", "Movies" and "TV" and use those mentioned Plugins exclusivly. If I had to use the basic interface I would probably go with Tivo...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-18-2012, 03:56 PM
SWKerr SWKerr is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,178
I hate the WMC UI. All eye candy with inefficient navigation and sorting. I have a Windows8 box setup now with an Xbox360 for testing purposes but there is no way I would dump SageTV for it.

WMC by itself would be livable but the Xbox as an extender is limiting. Lots of things don't play at all and some that do play do not play well. (Like it crashes when you skip around.) I also hate the remotes navigation options. On the PC something like EventGhost makes it livable but on the Xbox there are no good options to get around efficiently. (Seems like I have to hit back 80 times to get out of something back to where I can select a new show)

Movies are ok with Media Browser but have to be of the right format to work on the Xbox360.

Also: My SageTV recording seem to crash on the xbox if I try to skip around much.

That said: the new Xbox360 is great as an extender for Netflix and Amazon. Also has some other decent plug-ins.
__________________

Retired SageTV in favor of Plex\Emby and YouTubeTV.

Last edited by SWKerr; 12-18-2012 at 03:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:12 AM
Skybolt's Avatar
Skybolt Skybolt is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stony Brook, NY
Posts: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWKerr View Post
... I have a Windows8 box setup now with an Xbox360 for testing purposes but there is no way I would dump SageTV for it.

...That said: the new Xbox360 is great as an extender for Netflix and Amazon. Also has some other decent plug-ins.
I agree, only for TV and using a CableCard, Sage doesn't fully support that. But for ripped content, you still can't beat Sage, especially if you already have it setup.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:55 PM
macsupergeek macsupergeek is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 160
For the Ceton beta testers on here any word on how this new firmware that allows better 1080i viewing affects other areas of the system? Did they through in any navigation tweaks or other things they left out at production time?
__________________
SERVER: Dual Core Xeon 3.0GHz 5160, 8gb RAM, Win7 x64, SageTV 9.0.13.536 w/ BMT, WebUI, OpenDCT, Java 1.70_79
TUNERS: 2 x Ceton PCIe InfinitiTV - FIOS
STORAGE: UNRAID - 8tb for archived shows, DVDs, pictures and music
CLIENTS: 2 x HD200s, 2 x HD300
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Skybolt's Avatar
Skybolt Skybolt is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stony Brook, NY
Posts: 1,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsupergeek View Post
For the Ceton beta testers on here any word on how this new firmware that allows better 1080i viewing affects other areas of the system? Did they through in any navigation tweaks or other things they left out at production time?
Right now the menu is still "Jerky", No theme support. 1080i got a little better. Some say it's fixed. I think they are on the right track, we just need the train to leave the station at this point.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ceton Datasheets for "Echo" and "Q" nebulink General Discussion 52 05-10-2012 10:54 AM
STVi Feasibility Question iolaus SageTV Studio 7 07-29-2010 01:41 AM
Audio echo on AC3? jerryt SageTV Software 0 10-08-2008 06:17 AM
Echo problem with Pinnacle 310i Glitterati Hardware Support 5 11-14-2007 08:04 AM
Audio echo while viewing live TV raddevon SageTV Software 3 05-14-2006 09:46 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.