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View Poll Results: What is your Dream SageTV Client
The HD300 extender client is perfect for my needs 24 17.39%
HD300 extedender for 2015+ (4K, h265, Altmos, Hi10p) 83 60.14%
Linux/Windows PC NUC 19 13.77%
Kodi x86 Windows or Linux client 9 6.52%
Android Kodi client 7 5.07%
Android SageTV client 44 31.88%
Speciality device (FireTV, Apple, Roku, game console) 45 32.61%
Plex/UPnP client on any device is fine 14 10.14%
Also support DRM streaming (eg Netflix, Hulu, Spotify) 56 40.58%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 03-17-2015, 04:53 PM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWKerr View Post
I really don't think you could find a consistent hardware platform that could run a stand alone SageTV client like the SageTV extenders. By the time you got something working they would have a new model and you would have to support it. Or they could stop making it and the you are SOL. The Pi is the only thing I could see as working as a long term client but really it is kind of slow... and you would never get Nexflix and Amazon running on it consistently.

I think focusing on clients for the cheap existing platforms like FireTV, Roku, Google TV etc is the way to go. Plus then you could concentrate on a great DVR experience and leave the Online DRM mess to others external apps.

I would really just like to get the TV menu experience of Gemstone. (with the integration of imported TV into the recorded library)
To me Movies, Music and online options are not really necessary anymore. I would probably rather just use Kodi or Plex for those.
Almost all the cheap extenders have apps for the major Online vendors and running as a DVR app off those seems like the easiest thing to support over time.
The RPis would still work very well if kept to the miniclient model, where most the UI work is still done on the server. Trust me, the processor in the Pi is many magnitudes faster than the MediaMVP, and it handled rendering a sage UI decently enough (as long as you didn't use transparency, which it did not fully support).
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2015, 07:38 PM
jchiso jchiso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
The RPis would still work very well if kept to the miniclient model, where most the UI work is still done on the server ...
I would love to see this happen, but judging by the responses in the "Come Back" thread, many people don't seem to think this is a viable option ...
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2015, 07:48 PM
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There is lots of good hardware to choose from but part of the decision needs to be whether this new device will be focused as primarily as a SageTV extender or will also have streaming capabilities for other online content.

I currently have a Fire TV and while it works well for what it is, I don't consider it ideal choice for an extender and even running Kodi its not perfect.

SageTV app for Roku would be interesting but performance would likely be a massive step backwards for anyone who has ever used an HD300.

Chromebox/NUC. I currently have Chromebox loaded with OpenELEC and Kodi will playback almost anything you throw at it, no special drivers required. On topic of Kodi, while it would be great to see an SageTV PVR add-on, I'd prefer SageTV not be demoted to being just another backend. If anything, when SageTV becomes OS, Kodi should be figuring out to make SageTV its default PVR engine/app.

RPi2 is a great choice if one wants a low cost device. Can it decode h.265?

Generic Android boxes are wild card. Hardware in many of the new models supports mpeg2, h.265 etc. and if you run Android OS you have option to use device for other streaming service apps getting closer to the mythical "one box to rule them all." Unfortunately most are currently still running Android 4.4 and good luck getting support from China. When these boxes finally get Android 5.x and Android TV interface, they might be a good option.

Next generation HD400 which supports (4K, h265, Altmos, Hi10p) would be great although not sure how realistic it is to develop new hardware at this point in time.

I'd say if you want to maintain streaming, develop an Android 5.x app and let users choose hardware. If creating a new HD300, use Chromebox hardware as platform.

Last edited by 7up; 03-18-2015 at 01:19 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2015, 08:30 PM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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If the open sourcing would allow evilpenguin and others to fully integrate the PlayOn plugin into Sage, including full HD (including netflix, hulu, and all the other stuff it can do), and even integration (if possible) of PlayLater, then any extender device running Sage (including existing extenders) would be the "streaming+Sage" device you are looking for, wouldn't it? (Arguably better if PlayLater allowed you to download content to your device/server for later local viewing). My impression of why many here have shied away from PlayOn is that it still has slight compatibility issues regarding netflix and it doesn't do reliable HD most times. If that was all fixed, I don't see why that wouldn't be a great solution to the desire for an extender device that could also stream.

FWIW, my household uses the current PlayOn plugin frequently, with no real gripes. We don't have cable so it's mostly for watching archived TV shows (wife loves cooking reality shows and they look fine on our 42" family room TV even when only SD quality) and me watching live ESPN streaming sports via the WatchESPN app (with my parents' password), which looks acceptable even on my 84" projection screen. So, yeah, it's not DTS-HD and 4K or anything, but I guess we're just not that picky.
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  #25  
Old 03-18-2015, 06:13 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Hm, my ideal extender, that's a tricky one, but Tiki's got a good list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
For me the following are essential:
  1. Needs to "just work" with minimal fuss.
  2. Needs to play back at high quality for video and audio (full HD resolution, without pixellation, lag, stuttering, de-interlacing artifacts, etc.).
  3. Needs to integrate fully with the Sage Server (so I can access the guide data, manage the recording schedule, keep track of watched status, etc.)
  4. Needs to support "live" tv.
  5. Ideally, it should support the same UI as Sage
So the HD300 extender covers the above (HD200 comes close). If I was going to improve on that I would want:
  • Support for streaming DRM'd sources (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.)
  • Support for newer video and formats (4k, 3D, H.265)
  • Improved HDMI hardware (HD300 was a little finicky about cable length)
  • Improved cooling (HD300 ran hot).
  • Low Cost
For me the tricky part is related to #3, how do you accomplish that. I know at one time I was hoping for an "HD400" based on the Sigma 891x processor. It had (or was going to have) a Gennum VXP video processor on board (VXP is what Lumagen uses for Deinterlacing/denoise/sharpening, and what Anthem uses for the VP in their processors).

But at the same time, I think the HD300 model of "OK" video processing but "Source Direct" output is a better way to go, it's cheaper, and allows using ridiculously expensive external video processors if you want

Quote:
Originally Posted by valnar View Post
I guess the real question is whether Jeff thinks we can continue a relationship with Sigma, or just start looking elsewhere. ie. Is the HD300 dead?
I think we have to assume the HD300 is dead, well I suppose it's possible someone could start a kickstarter or something to order new batches of HD300's from their manufacturer. But I think there's zero chance of a (SageTV) community backed new extender.

If a "dedicated" hardware extender is what everyone wants, I think the only viable option is to find some existing hardware that a Sage client could be made to run on. Like an rPi. Actually a Chromebox might be a better option, way more power but still the same cost as an HD300. Plus less work since you could just build a custom linux distro with unchanged Sageclient/Placeshifter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchiso View Post
I would love to see this happen, but judging by the responses in the "Come Back" thread, many people don't seem to think this is a viable option ...
The Pi would make "a" nice extender for, for some people in some circumstances, but it would be a very poor choice to be "the" extender. The Pi has some playback limitations that mean it can't handle everything SageTV can, and that was one of the things that made the HD300 so great/popular, it played everything Sage could, TV, DVDs, Blu-rays (including bitstreamed HD audio).

All that said, and all that blue skying done....

If I were "leading" the SageTV OS development, with the rise, and importance of "apps" these days, I would probably focus on developing SageTV "apps", Android, iOS, Fire, Roku. These are, IMO, "low hanging fruit" that would get SageTV available to the most people, most devices, for the least work. And really that's what needs to happen for SageTV to live on as a vibrant OS project (like Kodi).

I think it would be prohibitively difficult (if not impossible due to licensing) to build Netflix, Amazon, etc into a SageTV solution.

Open Source SageTV with a Roku app would be something I could recommend to my family.
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  #26  
Old 03-18-2015, 06:22 AM
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PiX64 PiX64 is offline
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+1 to Tiki's list and Stangers

I know this is more client based discussion but I would personally love to have the appliance style machine for a Server. I don't want to constantly tinker and such anymore. Arguably this is one of Sage's coolest feature (the endless possibilities of customization, plugins, addons, etc.).

Right now TabloTV for me is and has been very much an appliance. I sit this little self contained server/tuners on my network, plug a drive, and done. Sure Occassionally I have to reset it with the little button on the back, but honestly in the past year that has happened maybe 5 times.

in either case a stable just works client is a huge win.
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  #27  
Old 03-18-2015, 07:50 AM
mechling-burgh mechling-burgh is offline
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Would an add in card like this one solve the digital audio problem for the pi?
http://www.gearbest.com/development-...FeJr7AodnEoAZA
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  #28  
Old 03-18-2015, 08:03 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechling-burgh View Post
Would an add in card like this one solve the digital audio problem for the pi?
http://www.gearbest.com/development-...FeJr7AodnEoAZA
The Pi already outputs DTS and AC3 over HDMI - all this card is for is if you aren't using feeding an HDMI device, you can get DTS and AC3 via Coax or Toslink. This does nothing to get HD Audio capability on the Pi (which I believe is what others were referring to as the pi's "digital audio problem".
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2015, 03:58 PM
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There one other possible as we know the HD300 come with Sigma 8654 you do know the Hauppauge MediaMVP HD come with Sigma 8655 and it you can download GPL Compliance source code for it here
ftp://ftp.hauppauge.com/Support/Medi...%20Compliance/
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2015, 12:22 PM
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Naylia Naylia is offline
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Haven't looked much at RPi2, but doesn't it beef up the horsepower quite a bit over the RPi Model B?
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  #31  
Old 03-20-2015, 02:08 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylia View Post
Haven't looked much at RPi2, but doesn't it beef up the horsepower quite a bit over the RPi Model B?
Only the CPU, not the GPU. It still uses the VideoCore IV with all its limitations. That includes its inability to decode Blu-Ray video.
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  #32  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:26 AM
wayner wayner is offline
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Isn't it kind of strange that the one codec which seems to be causing issues for the current gen players is MPEG-2 which is the oldest and least complex codec. Why isn't it automatically supported by everything?
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  #33  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Wayneb View Post
The one new ARM device that might work well is the soon to be released Nvidia shield console, it has HDMI 2.0 and also does 4K H2.65. Has built Netflix 4K support also.
Do all 4K TVs come with HDMI a 2.0? I haven't been paying attention.
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  #34  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Do all 4K TVs come with HDMI a 2.0? I haven't been paying attention.
Yes all they do, no need worry and don't buy in to 4K HDMI cables nonsense
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  #35  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:48 AM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Isn't it kind of strange that the one codec which seems to be causing issues for the current gen players is MPEG-2 which is the oldest and least complex codec. Why isn't it automatically supported by everything?
It's because H.264 is far better for streaming, which is the most common use case for ARM devices. It's not that the devices don't support MPEG2 but that the license necessary is an added cost that most likely won't be used by the majority of users. This is the reason that the MPEG2 and VC-1 licenses are an extra cost for the Raspberry Pi while H.264 is included.
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  #36  
Old 03-21-2015, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
It's because H.264 is far better for streaming, which is the most common use case for ARM devices. It's not that the devices don't support MPEG2 but that the license necessary is an added cost that most likely won't be used by the majority of users. This is the reason that the MPEG2 and VC-1 licenses are an extra cost for the Raspberry Pi while H.264 is included.
Yup but some people just don't get if had drop the MPEG2 licenses then this would have all change just like H.264 license rules that should put any lingering fears to rest: using H.264 to distribute more less some what free to end users, and won't cost anything until at least 2015. After that, it's up in the air, and that's a bridge we'll have to cross when we come to it -- there's a chance the MPEG-LA could start charging a royalty for free video from then on but so far nothing, but if that did start change you know where this going to go all be look at Google VP8 or Theora OGG codec or something else and we be saying $#%#$% to MPEG-LA and it patent holders.
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2015, 09:36 AM
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Why does the HD300 run so hot? The HD200's aren't even close, at least not from the feel of the exterior case.

I have to admit, I love the metal cases on these units. It gives them a feel of quality that you just don't get from other streamers.
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2015, 10:26 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
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I have never paid attention to all the various codec and format technicalities, but I'm guessing that OTA can't switch to h.264 or h.265 broadcasting or it would render every single current TV tuner worthless? Or do built-in TV tuners bypass all the codec stuff and just directly translate waves at certain frequencies into pictures and sounds?
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj View Post
I have never paid attention to all the various codec and format technicalities, but I'm guessing that OTA can't switch to h.264 or h.265 broadcasting or it would render every single current TV tuner worthless? Or do built-in TV tuners bypass all the codec stuff and just directly translate waves at certain frequencies into pictures and sounds?
I beat you didn't know this but we all ready have OTA H.264 it called ATSC-M/H
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2015, 10:56 AM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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I beat you didn't know this but we all ready have OTA H.264 it called ATSC-M/H
But how many tv's on the in the market support it?
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