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SageTV Github Development Discussion related to SageTV Open Source Development. Use this forum for development topics about the Open Source versions of SageTV, hosted on Github.

View Poll Results: What is your Dream SageTV Client
The HD300 extender client is perfect for my needs 24 17.39%
HD300 extedender for 2015+ (4K, h265, Altmos, Hi10p) 83 60.14%
Linux/Windows PC NUC 19 13.77%
Kodi x86 Windows or Linux client 9 6.52%
Android Kodi client 7 5.07%
Android SageTV client 44 31.88%
Speciality device (FireTV, Apple, Roku, game console) 45 32.61%
Plex/UPnP client on any device is fine 14 10.14%
Also support DRM streaming (eg Netflix, Hulu, Spotify) 56 40.58%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:59 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7up View Post
To everyone requesting that a currently popular streaming device, roku, Firetv etc be supported with a dedicated SageTV app may I ask how you expect this device to be able to handle mpeg2 HD content? I'm all for it but but would like to hear how this is possible.
I think you guys are sort of missing the point though, there really is no hope for new extenders other than these devices. There is very little chance (IMO) of getting a new round of HD300s, and even less chance (essentially zero IMO) that there will be a new hardware extender made.

What we're left with is making use of what's available that can run 3rd party software, and that's streaming devices like the Roku, Fire, Android, etc (Xbox One maybe), and "PC"s.

Of those, PCs are already done, SageClient an Linux Placeshifter already run on those.

Roku, Android, etc, these are devices that already have an install base of millions of people. What better way to gain interest, raise awareness of a SageTV OS project than for it to work on devices that millions of people already have connected to their TVs? Sure MPEG-2 is a challenge, but it's not insurmountable.

And for the rest of us techies who understand the difficulties with MPEG-2 and want higher quality, well there is a supply of (used) extenders, and there's always the Windows/PC client option as well.

It just sort of seems like people think SageTV LLC is back and there's a real possibility that there will be new hardware for SageTV. Well unless you/we step up to build it, no one else is going to. How many here are willing to take that financial risk on....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarredduq View Post
I'm thinking with the power of today's PC's that you would be able to transcode in real-time to h.264.
And ffmpeg supports Quicksync and NVenc, so you really don't need much raw CPU power at all.
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  #82  
Old 03-25-2015, 06:37 AM
nyplayer nyplayer is online now
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
And ffmpeg supports Quicksync and NVenc, so you really don't need much raw CPU power at all.
Where can you get FFMPEG that does hardware encoding?
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  #83  
Old 03-25-2015, 06:39 AM
valnar valnar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarredduq View Post
I'm thinking with the power of today's PC's that you would be able to transcode in real-time to h.264.
Even with modern CPU's, I think that would destroy the fluidity we enjoy with FF/RW.

I would rather have a weaker cpu with integrated mpeg2 support (Raspberry) than a powerful cpu without it (Roku).

The only thing the CPU needs to do is menus and artwork, and I believe the new RPi2 can handle that easily as Plex is more intense than any Sage menu. I don't have any benchmarks, but I believe the RPi2 900MHz ARM Cortex-A7 should be at least as fast as the Sigma SMP8654 at 600Mhz. Although if the Dev Gods want to pick a particular platform for a new 'extender', I would plead for the Cubox instead. It has integrated IR and SPDIF. The lowest cost option shouldn't be a primary goal, but it's not my choice.
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  #84  
Old 03-25-2015, 06:40 AM
mechling-burgh mechling-burgh is offline
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Don't Samsung, LG, Vizio have built in media play back in there smart TVs that can play back mpeg2 and interlaced videos. I know I can take my recordings on a hard drive and play them back on my mother in-laws Samsung without making them mp4's. Could we not work with those they may not be the best option but they may be a viable one at least.
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  #85  
Old 03-25-2015, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
Where can you get FFMPEG that does hardware encoding?
I found it from here:
https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Medi...GPU-Tanscoding
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  #86  
Old 03-25-2015, 07:57 AM
dgeezer dgeezer is offline
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I mostly agree with Stanger89. That's why I mentioned the x-newa plugin for Kodi. If something similar could be developed this would basically mirror the entire SageTV client inside Kodi, but use Kodi for playback. This works very well with Npvr. It keeps watched status across multiple clients and comskip works. Since I now use a chromebox for Kodi the playback of 1080i is fine.

I was just about to propose to the family powers that be that we switch to Npvr solely when this announcement came out. One of our tvs already just has a chromebox with kodi and a roku. This organises viewing pretty well. One device for ripped content and recorded TV and the roku for streaming. I've pretty much given up on the one box dream.
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  #87  
Old 03-25-2015, 08:12 AM
valnar valnar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgeezer View Post
I've pretty much given up on the one box dream.
How soon we forget that we've never had only one box, unless you go back to the day where you tuned everything through a VCR.

Before Netflix streaming, Hulu, Youtube and the rest, I've always had at least 2 or 3 boxes. Cable tuner box for the kids (live TV), Blu-ray/DVD player and my Sage HD300. If Sage didn't exist, that would be a Roku, Xbox, Playstation, Wii, XBMC client or something else. And then there is my new TV which has Netflix and the like baked in already.

At this point I'm happy if I can cram everything into TWO boxes! The HD300 isn't going anywhere since it gives the best Sage experience, so my primary concern is fitting everything else into some other box. It looks like that may need to be a general purpose Intel NUC. 'Seems to be the only way I can get Plex + Squeezelite to play together nicely.

I'll still keep my Blu-ray player.
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  #88  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:37 AM
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BobbyDing BobbyDing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
I think with the many varied potential pieces of hardware out there, and all with different playback capabilities, any future development must be based on the ability to selectively transcode on the server. Whether it is mixing down audio, transcoding MPEG-2 to H.264, or scaling down 4k source video to an HD player, the ability of the server to play back anything on any device is going to be key.
.
Yup. Thus the popularity of Plex...
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  #89  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:41 AM
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BobbyDing BobbyDing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgeezer View Post
Martin, I don't know if it will be possible once the SageTV client code is released, but a plugin similar to x-newa might work for a lot of SageTV users.
.
That would be wonderful. I like X-NEWA too..
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  #90  
Old 03-25-2015, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valnar View Post
How soon we forget that we've never had only one box, unless you go back to the day where you tuned everything through a VCR.
Well back when I started using Sage (or shortly thereafter) I had everything in one box, and one interface, and it stayed that way until Blu-ray came out.

I had SageTV on a server with SageClient on a PC in my theater. Sage handled all my TV, ripped movies, and even my discs (it can play DVDs). It really was great and I understand the appeal of one interface. If there was a way to go back to that, without major usability/quality compromises I would.
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  #91  
Old 03-25-2015, 11:28 AM
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BobbyDing BobbyDing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7up View Post
If you know FireTV can't process mpeg2 properly including both kodi and spmc, why do you then jump to the request for SageTV PVR add-on? I'm not trying to be sarcastic but at some point people need to be realistic regarding options for future sagetv clients.
Speaking for myself of course, I find viewing 1080i on the FireTV/SPMC with Software de interlacing is quite acceptable on secondary <32" TV's (kids room, bedroom, workshop). We don't watch sports or the 480i channels (two of the most noticeable for interlacing). Lastly, we almost never watch live TV. So having sage process the recordings before we watch them works just fine. I also plan on trying MCEBuddy for the same purpose.

Now the main entertainment center TV is a different story. That's presently where the HD300 sits. That's where I want the best quality. And where I hope the future HD400 (whatever that or its equivalent may be) will find a home.

Bobby
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  #92  
Old 03-25-2015, 01:14 PM
7up 7up is offline
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I will say it again so there is no confusion. The current mpeg2 deinterlacing on FireTV with Kodi is poor. While that may not be of concern to a particular environment, poor deinterlacing isn't acceptable and shouldnt be the goal.

One solution for using a box such as a FireTV would be real time transcoding to h.264 analogous to TV integration in Media browser 3. I'm sure I'm not the only one but how many people have setup a MB3 server and familiar with hardware required? After selecting a channel in real time to view are you prepared to wait 10-12 seconds for stream to start? Its a cool solution but a significant step backwards from an hd300 in terms of realtime DVR functionality.

Sorry if this isnt what everyone wants to hear. While a dedicated device such as a NUC or Chromebox would probably be better at duplicating HD300 functionality, one opton would be to develop an Android app and let the end user choose hardware.

Last edited by 7up; 03-25-2015 at 02:17 PM.
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  #93  
Old 03-25-2015, 03:14 PM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7up View Post
I will say it again so there is no confusion. The current mpeg2 deinterlacing on FireTV with Kodi is poor. While that may not be of concern to a particular environment, poor deinterlacing isn't acceptable and shouldnt be the goal.

One solution for using a box such as a FireTV would be real time transcoding to h.264 analogous to TV integration in Media browser 3. I'm sure I'm not the only one but how many people have setup a MB3 server and familiar with hardware required? After selecting a channel in real time to view are you prepared to wait 10-12 seconds for stream to start? Its a cool solution but a significant step backwards from an hd300 in terms of realtime DVR functionality.

Sorry if this isnt what everyone wants to hear.
I don't disagree, but what are the options really? I think it's unrealistic/naive to think there will ever be a continuation of, or update to the HD300, ie a special purpose SageTV extender. It's just not going to happen in an open source environment.

That leaves us with PC clients and developing "apps" for popular devices. An Android app should work on the Fire, or many other devices.

I wonder what TabloTV does, from their videos, it's not 10-15 seconds for playback to start, it's more like 3-5, which is inline with what an HD PVR takes to start, if not less.
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  #94  
Old 03-25-2015, 03:35 PM
emveepee emveepee is offline
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Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
Where can you get FFMPEG that does hardware encoding?
Andy wrote one http://babgvant.com/files/folders/ra...ntry21946.aspx he was working on it when I interrupted him to add ffmpeg to SageDCT (for xbmc users at the time)

Martin
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  #95  
Old 03-25-2015, 03:53 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emveepee View Post
Andy wrote one http://babgvant.com/files/folders/ra...ntry21946.aspx he was working on it when I interrupted him to add ffmpeg to SageDCT (for xbmc users at the time)

Martin
One of the users here already has a network encoder that transcodes in realtime. My cpu is strong enough to use it. .. that is what I replaced Sagedct with. You can also use it without transcoding. I beta tested it and it should be released shortly.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...&postcount=101
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Last edited by nyplayer; 03-25-2015 at 03:57 PM.
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  #96  
Old 03-25-2015, 04:15 PM
7up 7up is offline
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I have a Tablo. Its an interesting device with lots of potential but software is immature. Tablo features as DVR are light years behind SageTV. Tuning live channel is 12-15 seconds or 3-4 seconds if it was last channel viewed. Tablo apps work across multiple streaming devices as it transcodes mpeg2 -> h.264. Tablo transcoding is fine for film content but poor for video content. Sports are particularly problematic with Tablo. MB3 does a much better job transcoding.

What are options? If people want the best SageTV experience, short of ordering more HD300/or customizing new hardware(not likely to happen) NUC or Chromebox are good options. If using a popular streaming device is more important, its not reasonable to expect same level of performance/experience as an Hd300.

The only device i can think of that would allow online streaming apps, be able to decode mpeg2 and reasonably priced would be a generic Android box. Perhaps these should be considered.

Last edited by 7up; 03-26-2015 at 09:07 AM.
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  #97  
Old 03-25-2015, 04:35 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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The one thing that I am not willing to compromise on is the ability to be able to skip around in a file while watching sports. Sage has always done this flawlessly but very few of the options do this well and this may be impossible to do if you are transcoding the file.
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  #98  
Old 03-25-2015, 04:37 PM
7up 7up is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner View Post
The one thing that I am not willing to compromise on is the ability to be able to skip around in a file while watching sports. Sage has always done this flawlessly but very few of the options do this well and this may be impossible to do if you are transcoding the file.
I completely agree.
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  #99  
Old 03-25-2015, 05:01 PM
7up 7up is offline
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Let me throw out another thought. Chromebox running Kodi is a very capable device. Considering its popularity, what about a SageTV app within or launched from Kodi similar to what Silicondust recently released? I know its not the single box solution many would prefer but the upside is good hardware to run SageTV client, support for most file formats, blu-ray rips, 4k etc and Kodi for whatever you wish to do with it. Kodi has large user base which also has upside of exposing a lot more people to SageTV

Last edited by 7up; 03-25-2015 at 11:14 PM.
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  #100  
Old 03-26-2015, 08:15 AM
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This is a crazy suggestion, but I wonder what would happen if Silicon Dust got involved with this whole mix? Maybe we should make them aware of this?
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