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Old 12-16-2016, 10:16 AM
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Electric cars and plug-in hybrids

Anyone here own an electric car or plug-in hybrid (not including Tesla, as they are out of the price range)?

Noticed there are some pretty inviting year-end incentives from Ford, Kia and possibly Toyota with regards to their cars.

Chime in - negative and positive comments welcome. And how much in real dollars does it cost, or add to your electrical bill (real users, not theoretical numbers) to keep charging these babies...
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
Anyone here own an electric car or plug-in hybrid (not including Tesla, as they are out of the price range)?

Noticed there are some pretty inviting year-end incentives from Ford, Kia and possibly Toyota with regards to their cars.

Chime in - negative and positive comments welcome. And how much in real dollars does it cost, or add to your electrical bill (real users, not theoretical numbers) to keep charging these babies...
I've got a 2015 Chevy Volt and love it. It goes about 40 miles on pure electric (closer to 45 if I drive real conservatively) then the gas motor kicks in which will take me another 300+ miles. (It has an 10 gal gas tank.) Note that the gas motor is just a generator, the drive train on the car is all electric.

For a full charge it takes about 11 kwh. My electric company charges about 0.12 per kwh. So 40 miles costs me about $1.30. Many municipalities in my area offer free charging, including the (small) city where my office is located.

Cost "out the door" was $37,500. I got the $7,500 Federal tax credit making it a $30,000 vehicle.

The only down side is that it has two bucket seats in the back making it a 4 person vehicle. (I have had 5 in it but that's not recommended.)

I did "the math" before buying it and can tell you if you are looking for the lowest total cost of ownership (initial price - lifetime fuel - maintenance + resale value) the Prius is still king. I just couldn't picture myself driving around in one of those.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tmiranda View Post
I've got a 2015 Chevy Volt and love it. It goes about 40 miles on pure electric (closer to 45 if I drive real conservatively) then the gas motor kicks in which will take me another 300+ miles. (It has an 10 gal gas tank.) Note that the gas motor is just a generator, the drive train on the car is all electric.

For a full charge it takes about 11 kwh. My electric company charges about 0.12 per kwh. So 40 miles costs me about $1.30. Many municipalities in my area offer free charging, including the (small) city where my office is located.

Cost "out the door" was $37,500. I got the $7,500 Federal tax credit making it a $30,000 vehicle.

The only down side is that it has two bucket seats in the back making it a 4 person vehicle. (I have had 5 in it but that's not recommended.)

I did "the math" before buying it and can tell you if you are looking for the lowest total cost of ownership (initial price - lifetime fuel - maintenance + resale value) the Prius is still king. I just couldn't picture myself driving around in one of those.
excellent info - thanks. When you say full-charge, that's when it's practically fully drained? And it takes 5-7 hours to charge up? Our electric company charges .37 as the top rate! But I hear they may have better plans for electric car owners, dropping to the mid- 20 cent range for midnight to 6am charging. We tried the Volt, but both being 6' with long legs, it was too cramped for us. The Prius V and Ford C-Max fit us better, although the Volt is the prettiest by far
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
excellent info - thanks. When you say full-charge, that's when it's practically fully drained? And it takes 5-7 hours to charge up? Our electric company charges .37 as the top rate! But I hear they may have better plans for electric car owners, dropping to the mid- 20 cent range for midnight to 6am charging. We tried the Volt, but both being 6' with long legs, it was too cramped for us. The Prius V and Ford C-Max fit us better, although the Volt is the prettiest by far
Yes, when it's totally drained. Charging takes about 4 hours on a 220V charger, 7-8 on a 110V charger.

There is an option ot start charging at a specific time to take advantage of cheap rate times.

I'm 5'7"
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:54 PM
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I'm leasing a Fiat 500e. Love it. Very fun to drive, and the lease deal was amazing (essentially, I'm paying less for the lease on the Fiat as I was paying for Gas in my SUV previously). I drive it just enough to stay on track with the 10,000 mile/year lease, and still have the SUV, my old mustang, or the wife's car for the balance of my driving. I never even purchased a fast charger, and use the included 110V charging cord for just about all my charging (I have charged with the fast chargers at Disneyland a couple times).

PLUS, it's an obnoxious orange color, with a crazy white, orange, and black interior - which is just icing on the cake.
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:06 PM
Soleil Soleil is offline
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Smile

We bought a Volt 2016 a little over a year ago, so far we love it and have had zero issues.

In last 12 months:
19,000 km electric with 300$ can. we average 25$ can per month.
4,000 km on gas for a little over 200$ can

In Quebec, electricity is cheap (0.08$/kwh) and gas is expensive (over 1 dollar Can per liters)

In the summer temp, we can do 110 km of city driving before switching to the Generator, during winter it is more like 70km before the generator kicks in.
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Soleil View Post
We bought a Volt 2016 a little over a year ago, so far we love it and have had zero issues.

In last 12 months:
19,000 km electric with 300$ can. we average 25$ can per month.
4,000 km on gas for a little over 200$ can

In Quebec, electricity is cheap (0.08$/kwh) and gas is expensive (over 1 dollar Can per liters)

In the summer temp, we can do 110 km of city driving before switching to the Generator, during winter it is more like 70km before the generator kicks in.
How do you figure out how many kwh's you're using to charge the vehicle?
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
I'm leasing a Fiat 500e. Love it. Very fun to drive, and the lease deal was amazing (essentially, I'm paying less for the lease on the Fiat as I was paying for Gas in my SUV previously). I drive it just enough to stay on track with the 10,000 mile/year lease, and still have the SUV, my old mustang, or the wife's car for the balance of my driving. I never even purchased a fast charger, and use the included 110V charging cord for just about all my charging (I have charged with the fast chargers at Disneyland a couple times).

PLUS, it's an obnoxious orange color, with a crazy white, orange, and black interior - which is just icing on the cake.
any idea how many kwh's you use for a full charge when fully drained, or how much your electric bill increased monthly? Edison, PG&E or SDG&E? I imagine your electric company has a reduced rate for EV owners?
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
How do you figure out how many kwh's you're using to charge the vehicle?
The Volt tells you.
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:12 AM
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(I have charged with the fast chargers at Disneyland a couple times).
OT - PM me next time you're at Disney, I live 45 minutes away and go all of the time. Beer is on me
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
How do you figure out how many kwh's you're using to charge the vehicle?
For us, It is easy only when the battery is completely empty, the Volt 2016 has a 14 kWh usable on the battery. Some people installs a Watt meter on there EVSE, but we did not.

Our household electricity consumption is pretty stable from month to month, even in the winter since we have a Natural Gas Furnace, hot water and stove.

Over the last year our monthly bill has increase on average 25$ per month. Which is 8 to 9 times less $$$ than our Minivan 2001 we had before the Volt 2016. But your mileage will vary, electricity is very cheap here.
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:31 AM
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any idea how many kwh's you use for a full charge when fully drained, or how much your electric bill increased monthly? Edison, PG&E or SDG&E? I imagine your electric company has a reduced rate for EV owners?
I am rarely charging from empty, but it takes about 20 hours with the small 120V EVSE. That EVSE is limited to 13 Amps, so that would be around 30kWh.

Most my charging is done at work, so I can't really comment on the actual electric bill increase. Even if I did it all at home and on a high tier at $0.35/kWh, that'd be what, $10 for a full charge (90 miles).

So, worst case, over my 3 year lease, and 30,000 miles, I'd have to spend $3300 to charge every mile I drive at high tier. Combined with the down and lease payments, it still be under $10,000 for those three years total cost of ownership.
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Soleil View Post
For us, It is easy only when the battery is completely empty, the Volt 2016 has a 14 kWh usable on the battery. Some people installs a Watt meter on there EVSE, but we did not.

Our household electricity consumption is pretty stable from month to month, even in the winter since we have a Natural Gas Furnace, hot water and stove.

Over the last year our monthly bill has increase on average 25$ per month. Which is 8 to 9 times less $$$ than our Minivan 2001 we had before the Volt 2016. But your mileage will vary, electricity is very cheap here.
so if you were paying .24 cents per kwh, then your monthly bill would have increased by $75 - sound right?
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:15 AM
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another advantage of a pure electric vehicle, is maintenance is essentially nonexistant. I think he maintenance schedule on my fiat says to change the cabin air filter every 30,000 miles, and change the coolant every 150,000 miles. Brakes a rarely ever used on the cars, due to regenerative braking, so i expect they'd last a very long time.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:05 AM
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I am rarely charging from empty, but it takes about 20 hours with the small 120V EVSE. That EVSE is limited to 13 Amps, so that would be around 30kWh.

Most my charging is done at work, so I can't really comment on the actual electric bill increase. Even if I did it all at home and on a high tier at $0.35/kWh, that'd be what, $10 for a full charge (90 miles).

So, worst case, over my 3 year lease, and 30,000 miles, I'd have to spend $3300 to charge every mile I drive at high tier. Combined with the down and lease payments, it still be under $10,000 for those three years total cost of ownership.
Something seems off with your numbers... $10 for 90 miles sounds expensive.
Consider that a typical gas car gets in the neighborhood of 30 mpg, so 90 miles should use about 3 gallons of gas. At current prices of $2.30 per gallon, that's $6.90 for 90 miles in a conventional gas-powered car. I would expect electric to be less than that, even at $0.35/kWhr.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:33 AM
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Something seems off with your numbers... $10 for 90 miles sounds expensive.
Consider that a typical gas car gets in the neighborhood of 30 mpg, so 90 miles should use about 3 gallons of gas. At current prices of $2.30 per gallon, that's $6.90 for 90 miles in a conventional gas-powered car. I would expect electric to be less than that, even at $0.35/kWhr.
And if you genuinely had to charge at $0.35/kWh, compared to $2.30/gallon it wouldn't make sense to drive electric. $0.35/kWh is my highest tier, as I was just showing worst case conditions. If you genuinely were going to be charging a significant amount at home, SCE (my electric company) has EV Time of use rates, where the overnight rate is I think $0.13/kWh. Since I charge most my use at work, where it is free to me (and the company only pays $0.075/kWh), I have no reason to change my home rates.
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:23 PM
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$0.35/kWh, ouch! I pay around $0.027/kWh out here in North Central Washington state. Thank you, hydro power.

Maybe I should consider an electric car. Too bad there doesn't seem to be a lot of AWD options, which would probably be a requirement for me.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:43 PM
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And if you genuinely had to charge at $0.35/kWh, compared to $2.30/gallon it wouldn't make sense to drive electric. $0.35/kWh is my highest tier, as I was just showing worst case conditions. If you genuinely were going to be charging a significant amount at home, SCE (my electric company) has EV Time of use rates, where the overnight rate is I think $0.13/kWh. Since I charge most my use at work, where it is free to me (and the company only pays $0.075/kWh), I have no reason to change my home rates.
wish we lived in a SCE zone

http://www.sdge.com/clean-energy/ev-rates
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:26 PM
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wish we lived in a SCE zone

http://www.sdge.com/clean-energy/ev-rates
Even with that $0.22/kWh rate, my fiat's 3.6 miles/kWh would cost the same as a gasoline vehicle getting 57mpg (at San Diego's typical $3.50/gallon).

$0.22/kWh 3.6 miles/kWh = $0.061/mile
$3.50/gal 57 miles/gallon = $0.061/mile
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:10 PM
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$0.35/kWh, ouch! I pay around $0.027/kWh out here in North Central Washington state. Thank you, hydro power.
It wasn't until I read that through a second time that I realized your decimal place was one additional position to the left. Wow.
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