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SageTV Media Extender Discussion related to any SageTV Media Extender used directly by SageTV. Questions, issues, problems, suggestions, etc. relating to a SageTV supported media extender should be posted here. Use the SageTV HD Theater - Media Player forum for issues related to using an HD Theater while not connected to a SageTV server.

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2006, 08:22 AM
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JParedis JParedis is offline
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Question Can't get SageTV to work with directly connected MediaMVP

I got 2 network ports on my PC and had the brilliant idea to use one for network, the other for connecting the MediaMVp directly to the PC with a cross cable. I read in Hauppauge manual that this would be a quicker connection.

But I just can't get it to work. As I made the cross cable myself, and have to go through a patch pannel, I first thought something was wrong with the hardware setup. So I tried it with the original Hauppauge software, and this ones works just fine - so guess it isn't a hardware issue.

FYI, I did put on the MediaMVP network card fixed IP 192.123.1.1, as Hauppauge states booting the MVP takes +3 minutes if you don't. I'm wondering, as no DHCP gives the MVP an IP address and I read somewhere that Hauppauge got around that by 'simulating' DHCP in their service, would this be the problem (SageTV service not able to get the MVP to work without a DHCP giving it an IP address)?

Has anybody got experience with this? I have now connected all back via network, so it works (but it takes minutes before the MVP finds the first time the service!).

Should be possible ... Still wondering on how the MVP gets its IP with a direct connection ...
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2006, 08:51 AM
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MrApollinax MrApollinax is offline
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AFAIK the Sage extender service works this way:

1. Upon power up the MVP sends out a BOOTP REQ
2. The Sage Extender Service ACKs with boot file information and BOOTP/TFTP addressing info
3. MVP downloads mvp.bin
4. mvp.bin loads into system memory and the MVP boots off of this new image
5. The MVP then bounces it's own ethernet port (probably to clear any existing IP info) and then sends out a DHCP request.
6. DHCP server ACKs
7. MVP gets IP address and REQs the SageTV interface
8. SageTV server sends info
9. SageTV extender application loads and is displayed.
10. Extender is now up and running.

I'm guessing that the Hauppauge image has a "default" IP address it reverts to in the event of a DHCP timeout which allows for a direct connection.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2006, 09:20 AM
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JParedis JParedis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrApollinax
AFAIK the Sage extender service works this way:

1. Upon power up the MVP sends out a BOOTP REQ
2. The Sage Extender Service ACKs with boot file information and BOOTP/TFTP addressing info
3. MVP downloads mvp.bin
4. mvp.bin loads into system memory and the MVP boots off of this new image
5. The MVP then bounces it's own ethernet port (probably to clear any existing IP info) and then sends out a DHCP request.
6. DHCP server ACKs
7. MVP gets IP address and REQs the SageTV interface
8. SageTV server sends info
9. SageTV extender application loads and is displayed.
10. Extender is now up and running.

I'm guessing that the Hauppauge image has a "default" IP address it reverts to in the event of a DHCP timeout which allows for a direct connection.
Thanks for that info, it does give me a better view on how all this works (although I tool around with PC and a bit network, my knowledge on networking is low - but I'm picking up bits and pieces ).

How can steps 1 to 4 occur without the MVP having its own IP address?

The main issue/question however is, how does this than work when the MVP is directly connected to the PC (so no network, no DHCP, straight forward connection via a cross cable)? It does work with the Hauppauge service, not with the SageTV service. Maybe as you wrote the Hauppauge service image includes an IP in case no DHCP response is given. This may than also result in finding out that SageTV service does not support a directly connect MVP setup
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2006, 12:55 PM
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JParedis JParedis is offline
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In case anybody else wants to connect an MVP directly to a PC using a cross cable, I obtained following info from the support team:

"SageTV doesn't assign ip by defaults but you might be able to do it by adding miniserver/clients=MVP/00:11:22:33:44:55/192.168.X.Y to your Sage.properties file in the SageTV directory. Make sure SageTV and the service are closed when adding this.

Where 00:11:22:33:44:55 is the mvp mac address and the ip is local to the server ip."

Tried it once, no luck. But knowing myself, I may have done something wrong so will try again.

And in case you are wondering, Hauppauge does state that a direct connection is quicker than via network. As I got 2 ports anyway, it could be done (again, works with Hauppauge software).

No killing me, but would be a nice to have it working.
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2006, 08:28 AM
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hemicuda hemicuda is offline
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Near as I can tell from reading posts and "wiresharking" my LAN the Hauppauge s/w has a (limited?) DHCP server built in and will assign the MVP an IP. Running sage you will either need to use that workaround (no idea if it works) or set up some kind of DHCP server on your PC and assign the MVP a static IP. For some reason the MVP needs to receive a static IP from the DHCP server to even accept an IP. I had mine set to give it anything that was available in the pool when the MVP powered up and it never would connect to the Sage server. The static IP via DHCP method seems to be the most stable environment so far. I've powered mine off several times, relocated it to another room, put it in standby, and had power outages. So far it's still doing its thing.
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2006, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemicuda
... For some reason the MVP needs to receive a static IP from the DHCP server to even accept an IP. I had mine set to give it anything that was available in the pool when the MVP powered up and it never would connect to the Sage server. The static IP via DHCP method seems to be the most stable environment so far. I've powered mine off several times, relocated it to another room, put it in standby, and had power outages. So far it's still doing its thing.
I have read at several posts that many had their DHCP give the MVP a static IP (which I read as giving always the same IP). I also read at places that this is (probably) not tackling the source of the issue.
Sadly enough, my router/DHCP can't have MAC based fixed IP assiged - it's a all DHCP or nothing approach. But my MVP does work via LAN .... more or less. It does take upto 6 minutes before the MVP gets its IP address, and can't connect to the server 'till than. I'm still looking into why this is happening. But once connected, it works.
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2006, 08:30 AM
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if you're using a hardware router/DHCP you might look into DD-WRT 3rd party firmware. it works on several brands from what little i've read. i have a linksys WRT54G, but opted to use a spare linux box for better remote access setup. good luck.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2006, 01:06 PM
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I have a working setup using this simple DHCP server software (freeware):
http://perso.orange.fr/philippe.jounin/tftpd32.html

I have a crossed cable between the MVP and the PC... Works perfectly
I'm using Sage 6 beta :-)

All the best
Anders
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2006, 03:39 AM
lotus lotus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drnemo
I have a working setup using this simple DHCP server software (freeware):
http://perso.orange.fr/philippe.jounin/tftpd32.html

I have a crossed cable between the MVP and the PC... Works perfectly
I'm using Sage 6 beta :-)

All the best
Anders
I have the same setup using tftp32 as my DHCP server and normally use a network switch for connections from the MVP to the server. As I had a spare LAN port on the server and was investigating other MVP boot issues I connected my MVP using a crossed LAN cable. The MVP boot failed as the LAN interface on the server is only enabled when the MVP enables its LAN port. It takes a few seconds before my server interface is up and the DHCP request has already been sent by the MVP and lost before this completes.

The LAN port enable time is related to the particular hardware and driver. I added an old 100BaseT interface card to the server for testing I found that this card brings up the interface faster and the MVP can get an IP and boot! This whole process is not reliable when the time to get the DHCP response is so short and no retries seem to be made to recover any lost requests that happen when the LAN port is coming up.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2006, 01:25 PM
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So the options are:

1. Use the MVP via LAN, and have the LAN DHCP give the MVP an IP address.
Several issues reported with dynamic DHCP, it can work. Several however have set their DHCP to give the MVP a fixed IP address (probably MAC driven) and for many this resolved the issues they had.

2. Use the MVP via cross cable directly connected to the PC.
In case of the PC has to run a DHCP service giving the MVP its IP address. Freeware available doing so - reported by users to work.
(Untested - change the properties of SageTV to have it give the MVP an IP address. No report that it works).


I probably will have to purchase another router (current an E-Tech Broadband Router not supporting DHCP assigning fixed IP addresses) as I do not want my PC to run the DHCP service. I got multiple PC's and also a LAN printer, and don't want my PC to be a bottle neck for the others (daughter wouldn't like it ).
If any suggestions (if you have a router with DHCP that can give dynamic IP's + fixed IP based on MAC) do let me know - any prooven concept has my preference.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2006, 01:44 PM
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MeInMaui MeInMaui is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JParedis
So the options are:

1. Use the MVP via LAN, and have the LAN DHCP give the MVP an IP address.
Several issues reported with dynamic DHCP, it can work. Several however have set their DHCP to give the MVP a fixed IP address (probably MAC driven) and for many this resolved the issues they had.

2. Use the MVP via cross cable directly connected to the PC.
In case of the PC has to run a DHCP service giving the MVP its IP address. Freeware available doing so - reported by users to work.
(Untested - change the properties of SageTV to have it give the MVP an IP address. No report that it works).


I probably will have to purchase another router (current an E-Tech Broadband Router not supporting DHCP assigning fixed IP addresses) as I do not want my PC to run the DHCP service. I got multiple PC's and also a LAN printer, and don't want my PC to be a bottle neck for the others (daughter wouldn't like it ).
If any suggestions (if you have a router with DHCP that can give dynamic IP's + fixed IP based on MAC) do let me know - any prooven concept has my preference.
I've had both a netgear and a dlink router that were able to assign reserved IP addresses via DHCP. I expect all of their routers should do it. If you're trying to save some money, you can do this using your current router if you restrict the DHCP server to have a range of only 1 IP address available for DHCP and then configure all of your other networked devices' IP addresses manually (so they don't use DHCP)

I also had initially tried to connect the MVP directly to my htpc via a crossover cable. I too came to the conclusion that the network connection of the computer was not detecting/initializing fast enough for the MVP to boot. I was able to solve this by placing a dumb switch between the MVP and the computer. This kept the computer network connection always active. I had also set up a freeware DHCP server onthe htpc to assign the MVP IP address. While not ideal, I can verify that this worked. I'm not running that way anymore. I now just have everything on the network using my dlink router's DHCP server, but I thought I'd share my experience. Hope this helps a little.

Aloha,
Mike
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2006, 12:58 AM
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I have a revision "D3" MVP and I have filed a bug report in that the MVP boots fine from 6.0.11 beta but when 6.0.12 beta is installed the MVP gets stuck at the "SageTV Media Center Booting - Please Wait" splash screen.

Upon switching the server back to 6.0.11 the MVP starts from where it was stuck without needing a power off/power on.
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:13 AM
lotus lotus is offline
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In the DHCP RFC specification there is a section on the retry strategy required to ensure DHCP is reliable. It seems from observing my MVP that this is not implemented (or poorly implemented?) in the MVP. So any small delays, packet loss etc. cause the MVP to fail to boot at the DHCP step and there is no attempt to recover except by the user power cycling the unit.

I have started another thread with some details on what I see with my MVP when DHCP fails which could shed some light on the DHCP issue for other users having issues booting.http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=20765

Would be nice if someone at Sage can confirm that the DHCP in the MVP implements the retry strategy specified in the RFC?
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Old 10-19-2006, 12:34 PM
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JParedis JParedis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInMaui
I also had initially tried to connect the MVP directly to my htpc via a crossover cable. I too came to the conclusion that the network connection of the computer was not detecting/initializing fast enough for the MVP to boot. I was able to solve this by placing a dumb switch between the MVP and the computer. This kept the computer network connection always active. I had also set up a freeware DHCP server onthe htpc to assign the MVP IP address. While not ideal, I can verify that this worked. I'm not running that way anymore. I now just have everything on the network using my dlink router's DHCP server, but I thought I'd share my experience. Hope this helps a little.

Aloha,
Mike
That's interesting, as my MVP used to be connected to a dumb switch which was connected to the router. I did connect it straight to the router as I have some performance issues on the MVP, and that may well be when my startup DHCP issues started. I'm going to put it back on the dumb switch and come back on that one (moving it didn't resolve the issues anyway).

My issue, I got is covered in another threat, is that when I play some video's (including google video), I got a desync between image and sound. Got is also with some DVD's. All these play ok on the pc/server, not on MVP. That's one of the reasons I wanted to try a direct connection.

Maybe stupid question, but what does htpc stand for? Guess it's the pc running the SageTV service, just wondering on the ht.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:08 PM
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HTPC=Home Theater Personal Computer
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Maybe stupid question, but what does htpc stand for? Guess it's the pc running the SageTV service, just wondering on the ht.
HTPC = Home Theater PC

Edit: Beat me to it.
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2006, 11:50 PM
Lucas Lucas is offline
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The issue I mention above has been confirmed as fixed in the next release.

Here's the log entry from my Sagetv.0.txt when it happens

Πεμ 10/19 20:55:42.665 Server got broadcast packet: java.net.DatagramPacket@1fcd7d4
java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 8
Πεμ 10/19 20:55:42.849 at java.lang.String.substring(Unknown Source)
Πεμ 10/19 20:55:42.850 at sage.as.a(Unknown Source)
Πεμ 10/19 20:55:42.850 at sage.a.a.for(Unknown Source)
Πεμ 10/19 20:55:42.850 at sage.SageTV$5.run(Unknown Source)
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  #18  
Old 10-20-2006, 02:11 PM
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JParedis JParedis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JParedis
That's interesting, as my MVP used to be connected to a dumb switch which was connected to the router. I did connect it straight to the router as I have some performance issues on the MVP, and that may well be when my startup DHCP issues started. I'm going to put it back on the dumb switch and come back on that one (moving it didn't resolve the issues anyway).
Yep, that did it. I put the MVP back on the switch and now it boots quicker. I'm talking here about the first boot - so the MVP's initial boot - not the SageTV second boot (which also had thus a problem in one of the builds).

I'll go to the DHCP threat to read/discuss a bit more on the DHCP issue.

Regarding connecting the MVP cross cable to the htpc on its second network connection, I believe I know what my options are.

Just one more question. I downloaded that free DHCP software, but can't see that I can limit it to a MAC address? If I got this running, have my MVP not active, and my daughter starts her PC, there is a risk it gets an IP from this DHCP service ... So I would need to be able to limit this DHCP software to serve any request but from that specific network connector. Any idea's?
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  #19  
Old 10-20-2006, 03:37 PM
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I think the simplest thing is to manually configure the IP address on your daughter's computer so that it does not request an IP from the DHCP server.

You can try checking out this DHCP server also. It is the one that I used. Unfortunately I don't remember whether or not it could restrict IP addresses to specific MAC addresses, but at least it's another option.

Aloha,
Mike
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