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SageTV Media Extender Discussion related to any SageTV Media Extender used directly by SageTV. Questions, issues, problems, suggestions, etc. relating to a SageTV supported media extender should be posted here. Use the SageTV HD Theater - Media Player forum for issues related to using an HD Theater while not connected to a SageTV server.

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  #1  
Old 07-17-2007, 09:18 PM
hufnagel hufnagel is offline
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One stream, many MVPs

Is it possible to have a single common stream piped to multiple MVPs, and have that stream controllable by each? I recognize that if any MVP were to signal an action (stop, start, ff, rew, etc.) then all MVPs would show the same.

Can this be done?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2007, 02:20 AM
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rickgillyon rickgillyon is offline
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I'm probably telling you what you already know here, but even if all 4 of your MVPs watch the same recording/live tv from the same tuner, it's recorded first so all can control the video independently.

If you're asking if you can specifically tell Sage to make them all react together on exactly the same video feed, I don't believe it's possible as it's contrary to the way that Sage works...
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2007, 03:28 AM
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nielm nielm is offline
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It's technically possible -- but you would need to do some coding.

You need to start an STV Forked action thread, or Java plugin thread which monitors what is happening on all the MVPs using the Java API to request the status (currently playing file, seek position, play/paused state) from each MVP's UIContext.

As soon as one MVP is seen to be doing something different, then the other MVP's should be synced...

The implementation is 'left as an exercise for the reader'
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:51 AM
jdamore jdamore is offline
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I have been thinking of this idea for a long time now. I know it is possible but would require a LOT of work. I just don't know how much work.

Have you ever had a party and you wished you had an home audio distribution system playing throughout the house? Or, wished you were able to watch the "big game" in the kitchen when whipping up some snacks while your guests are watching it on the big screen.

The ideal options (imoa) would be to have a menu item to view the clients and play what they are playing. Whether its live/recorded TV or just music, you will see/hear with minimal latency between the 2 or more clients. It would be great to have the ability to pick up the remote to the room you are in and have control over the synchronized clients.

I wish I was a software guy..
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2007, 01:15 PM
hufnagel hufnagel is offline
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jdamore...

you = hammer
description = head

you nailed it brother!
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2007, 01:24 PM
stevech stevech is offline
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one to many is most often done with IP multicast (RFC 2588) and LAN devices that support it or are L2-transparent. And the MVPs too.

In my profession, we do this with MPEG camera encoders that do IP multicast. It is easy to do for small LANs, but only if all network devices support it. To me the simultaneous-viewer issue is to reduce disk accesses, since the 2nd and 3rd viewers still leave lots of capacity in the 100BT LAN. For bridged WiFi, the story is different, of course.

I'd think that in Sage's market, the need for simultaneous viewing of the same content is relatively rare.

Last edited by stevech; 07-18-2007 at 01:28 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:29 PM
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hemicuda hemicuda is offline
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Someone could start a Pole to unscientifically gage demand
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2007, 06:47 AM
paulbeers paulbeers is offline
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You can do this currently with a non-software version. I do this very thing with a distrubition amp. It distributes autio and video throughout the house. All I do is VNC into my server and kick something off. Definately not the sexiest way, but it works.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2007, 08:18 AM
jdamore jdamore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbeers View Post
You can do this currently with a non-software version. I do this very thing with a distribution amp. It distributes autio and video throughout the house. All I do is VNC into my server and kick something off. Definately not the sexiest way, but it works.
I thought about doing something like that but then I thought about all the calls I would get from the wife asking "how, how, how". Shes an ace when it comes to navigating through Sage and shes big on blasting music in the HT so it could be heard in the whole house. If she could synchronize the upstairs stereo to the HT stereo (downstairs) that would be huge WAF.

Stevech-
I agree with you that Sage currently may not have a large market for synchronized video. I don't think I would use it more than a couple times a year. Music is a whole new chapter. To anyone who views the AVS forum, there are questions all the time about different methods to distribute audio and this feature of Sage may get suggested. Result? Broadening the market from just a server/client pvr system to also a way to distribute audio.

Last edited by jdamore; 07-19-2007 at 10:17 AM.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:02 AM
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GKusnick GKusnick is offline
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But for whole-house music distribution, precise synchronization is essential, and I seriously doubt you're going to get it by shipping compressed audio over a general-purpose PC LAN and decoding it independently in each room. There are commerical products for digital audio distribution over IP, but they require a dedicated subnet just for audio, using switches and decoders designed for that purpose.
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2007, 12:11 PM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKusnick View Post
But for whole-house music distribution, precise synchronization is essential, and I seriously doubt you're going to get it by shipping compressed audio over a general-purpose PC LAN and decoding it independently in each room. .
But is precise synchronization absolutely neccessary? For instance, my mother would like to have TVs in different rooms watching the same show as she moves from room to room. If they are off sync a second or two, is it the end of the world? I don't think its that big a deal unless you have the volume cranked so that the different TVs are stepping on each other.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2007, 03:02 PM
paulbeers paulbeers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
But is precise synchronization absolutely neccessary? For instance, my mother would like to have TVs in different rooms watching the same show as she moves from room to room. If they are off sync a second or two, is it the end of the world? I don't think its that big a deal unless you have the volume cranked so that the different TVs are stepping on each other.
YES! All it takes is traveling between rooms and hearing an echo to lower any WAF or MAF (in this case). Before I went with a distribution amp for my audio/video, I tried using Xlobby and syncing multiple PC's unfortunately the sync would be lost and then my wife would get annoyed. It doesn't even take a second in difference, even a fraction of a second and it is annoying. Try watching live tv on a tv in one room and an MVP in an anjoing room on the same channel on "live TV' and tell me if that doesn't annoy you.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2007, 05:20 PM
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbeers View Post
YES! All it takes is traveling between rooms and hearing an echo to lower any WAF or MAF (in this case). Before I went with a distribution amp for my audio/video, I tried using Xlobby and syncing multiple PC's unfortunately the sync would be lost and then my wife would get annoyed. It doesn't even take a second in difference, even a fraction of a second and it is annoying. Try watching live tv on a tv in one room and an MVP in an anjoing room on the same channel on "live TV' and tell me if that doesn't annoy you.
I didn't think that it would be a big deal if you couldn't hear both TVs at the same time. If I have the tv going in both rooms, then I should be able to turn down the volume, since I don't need to be able to hear that particular tv everywhere in the house.

I do know annoying it can be when you are hearing both tvs stepping on each other and creating an echo.
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2007, 06:12 PM
stevech stevech is offline
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I have a $35 modulator for std def. Just feed video and audio to it and set it for cable channel 76 or so which is unused here as are the adjacent channels. Insert it onto your cable just past your house amplifier (to stop ch 76 from exiting your house).

Quality suffers.

As to the remote, you can run IR over the cable TV coax too, as I do, inexpensively, or use RF extenders for IR.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2007, 06:22 PM
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GKusnick GKusnick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
I didn't think that it would be a big deal if you couldn't hear both TVs at the same time.
Perhaps not for TV. But again, music is a different kettle of fish. When I move from room to room, I expect the music to keep sync with my mental metronome, even if there's a moment or two when I'm out of earshot. It's jarring to walk into another room and find that my internal soundtrack is a second or two off.
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:12 PM
jdamore jdamore is offline
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Do the MVPs send back information regarding its status of playback (ie:time in milliseconds)? What exacly are the MVPs sending back?

GKusnick-
Mental metronome is a perfect way to put it. I can relate to that


Being unsynchronized above 50ms is where it begins to be unaccceptable to me. If the MVPs have a buffer, i'm sure they could be within a couple of milliseconds of each other.
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:12 AM
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Folkboat Folkboat is offline
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Indeed synchronized music using multiple MVP's would be fantastic.

Distributed Music systems seems to be pretty hot right now, probably due to the ability to download any music you want. Utilizing wireless MVP's for music distribution eliminates the need for in-wall wireing.

I realize this might be a difficult task to accomplish, however it would become a significant feature for Sage. If not an entirely new market for them.

Just my two cents.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2007, 10:45 AM
CollinR CollinR is offline
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Could you not do this by plugging a single MVP into a capture card used by VideoLAN and having that act as a network encoder. Give it a custom channel in the lineup and point all other clients to that channel and jump to front. Then any changes on the MVP connected to VideoLan will be seen on all other clients watching that specific channel.


I wish I knew how to get VideoLAN to work as a network encoder though.

Others may choose to reseach the MyTheater plugin, IIRC it uses VideoLan to stream the feeds to Sage.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2007, 08:04 PM
ChePazzo ChePazzo is offline
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actually, for that, you just need an extra tuner that accepts composite a/v. Don't even need the VideoLAN, just a regular network encoder.

You could control what's playing on that MVP via the webserver plugin ("play in extender xxxxxx") and the first TV-connected MVP that tuned into the A/V channel would pick initiate the recording.

Of course, if your goal is to reduce network bandwidth, then even Multicast isn't going to help you. Multicast has to fork at some point into a series of unicast streams. Typically, the benefit is when the multiple dests are multiple hops away, you can reduce the load through the network, but just at the customer endpoint, you need to unicast to each dest. In the case for SageTV and MVPs, since they all have to be on the same LAN, you really don't get much benefit from Multicast unless your switches support it, in which case you really only save bandwidth from server->switch.
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