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  #1  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:12 PM
Outvit Outvit is offline
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SageTV, What Happened To You?

The enclosed is a rant.
I ask that you give it a fair read.

I started a topic a while ago regarding horrible problems with the USB-UIRT system in SageTV and I explained that it had not been fixed in any amount of time, much less reasonable. The linked post not the first topic I've made regarding the degrading quality of the USB-UIRT capabilities of SageTV.

I've been out of town for a while and I've been remote controlling my SageTV using VPN systems and I've discovered that the problem just simply has not resolved itself, it's persisting (now, even after a reinstall of Windows). The USB-UIRT is perfectly fine as it works with GB-PVR and the free trial of BeyondTV 4.x and I'm getting really pissed off that SageTV has not fixed the USB-UIRT problems.

I've tried the email support and I went on with that for about a month. I sent them countless zip files full of my SageTV log files and SageTV’s other erroneous files. I tried every last thing they siad to try, even installing unsupported beta versions of SageTV. That turned out to be a fruitless endeavor as they merely feigned death and said "it isn’t our problem." "The problem lies with the makers of the USB-UIRT." Yet no other PVR software on the planet is having this issue. I got sick of the run around so I just got back to my busy schedule and relied more heavily on my old faithful hardware DVR by ReplayTV.

I thought of switching to GB-PVR full-time but it just wasn’t very refined like SageTV or BeyondTV and I don't wish to purchase another product for $70 plus. I purchased SageTV originally because it was a good piece of software and there was active participation in the community. It was helpful for a long time with prompt replies to my posts that were of help and value but I have seen that slipping and I've somehow fallen through the cracks.

I was out of town for a long time and that contributed to my anger because I expected SageTV to have fixed this issue by now as longstanding as it is and the fact that I'm not the only user getting this. While we may be a minority of users getting this issue it renders your software useless on a regular basis without restarting the computer every morning to ensure I'll get 2 or 3 normal channel changes before it stops changing the channels entirely. It is a very painful, tedious task to dial into the PC through VPN and restart it before a recording is scheduled to start. If you don't, well it records anyway without changing the channel.

I still love your software despite all of these challenges because you keep adding nice features, but at this point I have to admit BeyondTV is sure beginning to look quite appealing as is the new ReplayTV PC edition due to be released this September. The USB-UIRT never worked 100% from the start, and that was acceptable because it actually worked for a week or so straight, maybe further before it broke, and as you have progressively gotten higher in your version numbers it has gotten worse and worse, especially with each passing version of SageTV 5. SageTV 5 is where your quality control went out the window. It is completely, utterly, and totally crippled and there is no place to go download previous builds of SageTV that actually functioned well with the USB-UIRT.

Please, stop ignoring customers like myself. Please, show everyone that your wonderful small community spirit still exists. Please, if it is the folks at USB-UIRT who are causing the problem, then make your presence known as a company that uses and recommends their product to your customers. I assure you that you have considerably more weight in these matters than a loley person such as myself. Edit this post if you like. Dissatisfied customers aren't good for business. Then again, perhaps I was right to assume that your company still has integrity of spirit and genuinely still wants to help its customers due to its small size. I'll find out soon enough.

It may not flow wonderfully but it's from the heart.

Thank you for hearing me and kind regards,
A Sorta-Long-Time-Customer.
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:31 PM
blade blade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outvit
SageTV 5 is where your quality control went out the window. It is completely, utterly, and totally crippled and there is no place to go download previous builds of SageTV that actually functioned well with the USB-UIRT.
Obviously not everyone is having the same problems with the USB that you are, but I feel your pain.

BTW I believe you can still download previous versions. I think all you have to do is edit the download link to reference the version you want to download.
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:06 PM
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PGPfan PGPfan is offline
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Outvit, I wonder if there is any chance that your hardware (USB-UIRT itself) has gone bad? If it might help, I could loan you mine (not currently in use for the moment) to help diagnose.

-PGPfan
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:50 PM
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ToxMox ToxMox is offline
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Outvit. I'm curious what version of Java you are running. If you are running 1.5.0_06 try uninstalling that and using either 1.4.x or 1.5.0_05
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:51 PM
Outvit Outvit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade
BTW I believe you can still download previous versions. I think all you have to do is edit the download link to reference the version you want to download.
And how am I to remember the exact version number down to the 5.xx.xx level? Yah, I mean that's just no solution. I may as well load up a random number generator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PGPfan
Outvit, I wonder if there is any chance that your hardware (USB-UIRT itself) has gone bad? If it might help, I could loan you mine (not currently in use for the moment) to help diagnose.

-PGPfan
Thanks for the offer, however, I stated it works with GB-PVR, BeyondTV4 trial, and I even tried it with MythTV before I re-installed Windows XP. It works flawlessly with everything except SageTV and is operating on the latest drivers from the USB-UIRT website. I am convinced that SageTV has simply abandoned the USB-UIRT dll file.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:52 PM
Outvit Outvit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxMox
Outvit. I'm curious what version of Java you are running. If you are running 1.5.0_06 try uninstalling that and using either 1.4.x or 1.5.0_05
I believe it is 1.5.0_06 as well. I'll definetly try using 1.5.0_05, but does Sun Micro really offer outdated versions?

Last edited by Outvit; 07-26-2006 at 08:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:56 PM
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ToxMox ToxMox is offline
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Yuppers:
http://java.sun.com/products/archive/j2se/5.0_05/
If that doesn't work I would try these things in this order:
Close Sage and stop the service and delete the sage.properties file and start everything up again.
I would also reteach the IR codes from your SA remote to create a new IR file.

If that doesn't work try for one day backing up your wiz.bin and then deleting it and seeing if there is something corrupt in the wiz.bin causing it. I have noticed once or twice on the forums the wiz.bin having strage effects on tuning etc. Longshot but you never know. I know losing the wiz.bin isn't fun but it seems to be a better alternative to switching to another app altogether.

Good luck.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:01 PM
Outvit Outvit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxMox
Yuppers:
http://java.sun.com/products/archive/j2se/5.0_05/
If that doesn't work I would try these things in this order:
Close Sage and stop the service and delete the sage.properties file and start everything up again.
I would also reteach the IR codes from your SA remote to create a new IR file.

If that doesn't work try for one day backing up your wiz.bin and then deleting it and seeing if there is something corrupt in the wiz.bin causing it. I have noticed once or twice on the forums the wiz.bin having strage effects on tuning etc. Longshot but you never know. I know losing the wiz.bin isn't fun but it seems to be a better alternative to switching to another app altogether.

Good luck.
Just to check, since I upgraded using an official java updater msi package from sun microsystems. I downgraded to "J2SE Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 4" which should translate to "1.5.0_04." We'll see if that fixes it. I'm hopeful anyhow. I did the downgrade by removing "Update 6" from Windows Add/Remove programs. Which leaves "Update 4" installed consuming 118 megabytes.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:12 PM
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ToxMox ToxMox is offline
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Yup that should do it. I'd do a restart just for the heck of it.
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:19 PM
Outvit Outvit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxMox
Yup that should do it. I'd do a restart just for the heck of it.
Do you have AIM or any other messenger? PM me it?
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:28 PM
blade blade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outvit
And how am I to remember the exact version number down to the 5.xx.xx level? Yah, I mean that's just no solution. I may as well load up a random number generator.
You complained about not being able to get an older version and I made the mistake of thinking you actually wanted one. I guess that's what I get for thinking.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here who could help you find the link if you actually wanted it. If you still have a machine with your old install of Sage or a backup of the folder there will be old property files that will include the exact version number for each version you've had installed.

Last edited by blade; 07-26-2006 at 08:31 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:47 PM
Outvit Outvit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade
You complained about not being able to get an older version and I made the mistake of thinking you actually wanted one. I guess that's what I get for thinking.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here who could help you find the link if you actually wanted it. If you still have a machine with your old install of Sage or a backup of the folder there will be old property files that will include the exact version number for each version you've had installed.
What I was referring to is havent a clue what the exact #s are.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2006, 09:12 PM
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mayamaniac mayamaniac is offline
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I'm sure if you email tech support, they will provide you with whatever version you want. Also, I have all the installers dating back to 2.2, so I can send to you via rapidshare if you need an older version.

As for the USB-UIRT. There's something really odd going on with your setup. I'm using the USB-UIRT and it works fine in SageTV, latest v5.04. It ocassionally misfires a number once in a long while, but that's to be expected of IR blasters. I wouldn't know where to begin troubleshooting it without actually experience the problem in person.

But for random things to checks, java is good place to start as toxmox said.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2006, 10:35 PM
geogecko geogecko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outvit
What I was referring to is havent a clue what the exact #s are.
Here are a few to start with.

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  #15  
Old 07-27-2006, 08:51 AM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
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Hi,

If you are going to do a clean install of an older version of sage make sure you have the usbuirt installed with the latest driver before you do the sage install. I had a problem with mine way back and I believe it was because I installed it after I installed sage. At one time (and maybe still?) there was a mention in the manual of having all hardware installed before installing sage.

Not much, I know, but you just never know what is gonna muck things up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2006, 10:31 AM
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Narflex Narflex is offline
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I'd HIGHLY recommend removing Java 1.5 from your system and installing Java 1.4.2's latest release.

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html

We've found Java 1.5 to quite often be the cause of weird issues like this that seemingly have no other explanation.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:29 AM
geogecko geogecko is offline
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True, hopefully the official release of 1.6 will fix all the bugs...especially the memory leak ones...
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2006, 11:56 AM
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polen polen is offline
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You will also want to turn off the Java auto Update.

Goto Control Panel (Classic View), open Java and select Update tab, then uncheck the "Check for Updates Automatically" check box. click OK.

If at all possible, you should see if you can change your STB's channel with a Serial or Firewire connection. More reliable that way.

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Last edited by polen; 07-27-2006 at 11:58 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2006, 01:11 PM
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jlindborg jlindborg is offline
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Yeah, gotta chime in on the Java version - for weeks I struggled with mysterious issues dropping to the desktop, the wrong thing showing up in the "recording now" list (it recorded the right thing, though) and the like. After uninstalling everything, backing out all versions of Java and running the latest 5.x install for Sage which puts the older version of Java on there, it's been smooth as silk for over a week now.

As a non-Java developer who gets constant self-righteous lectures from Java heads about how great it is and how much more stable/open/better/fabulous it is than "old style" C++ apps and the like, this stuff just makes me laugh...
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2006, 05:24 PM
dblaine2 dblaine2 is offline
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I will almost bet Java is the problem. I am surprised your calls to tech support didn't relay the same info.
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