SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-31-2010, 06:48 PM
nebulink nebulink is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 295
Windows 7 64bit or WHS 32bit?

I am getting a new unit this week to replace my SageTV Media server.

Which OS would you guys recommend? My server is coming with 8GB RAM and I am not sure WHS supports more than 4GB RAM plus it is only 32bit. I am surprised WHS wasn't available in a 64bit flavor.

Thanks for all your opinions.

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-31-2010, 11:21 PM
Skirge01's Avatar
Skirge01 Skirge01 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
You could do a search for the benefits of WHS, since this has been discussed many, many times before. Essentially, it comes down to whether or not you want/need the features that WHS provides. If not, you have your answer.

That said, the next version of WHS is 64 bit only and will therefore support more than 4GB of ram. No 32-bit OS (except for specially modified enterprise server OS's) support more than 4GB of ram, due to memory address limits inherent to 32-bit.
__________________
Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case
Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB
Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion
Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT
Software: SageTV 7
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-31-2010, 11:30 PM
inlvnv inlvnv is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 95
I'm guessing all replies will be biased toward which ever OS those posters are using.

I've Been running WHS for the past 3 years myself. 32bit is correct and will recognize up to 3GB ram. Perhaps WHS 2.0 will be 64bit. Anyway, rarely a problem with WHS so far. Easy setup, auto backup of all PCs, remote access, pooled storage and option to duplicate. Negatives are - can't backup system drive and may not have Win2003 drivers for some of your device, although xp drivers work fine.
__________________
Server: Norco 450B server case w/ 1kw PS. Intel i3-530, 3GB RAM and HVR-1800.
Drives: 500GB sys, 2x 2TB, 9x1.5TB, 2x1TB and 1x750GB pooled. 750GB non-pooled for SageTV

Routers: DIR-655 and DIR-825 Bridges: 2xDAP-1522.
Installed: WHS OS, SageTV for WHS, PlayOn and Orb.
SageTV Plugins: PlayOn in OnLine Services.
SageTV clients: HD-200->Samsung LN52A750 and HD-100->Samsung LN40A650
Clients: 5 HP laptops, home built PC, iMac, PS3, PSP, XBox360, 3 iPhones 3gs (through OrbLive).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-01-2010, 06:40 AM
nebulink nebulink is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 295
Does anyone have any idea when WHS 64bit will be released?

I have not been able to find any sort of release date for it. Also, I am sure there will be no way to upgrade from 32bit to 64bit without a complete reinstall.

Thanks for the opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-01-2010, 09:35 AM
Skirge01's Avatar
Skirge01 Skirge01 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
There was a build leaked last week, which is discussed in an earlier link I provided. Something noted by CNet was that the leaked build was clearly an early build and needed quite a bit more work. So, no one knows when it will be released.
__________________
Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case
Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB
Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion
Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT
Software: SageTV 7
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Oats Oats is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
The rumor is WHS 2 will be out late 2010/early 2011. So it is a long way off.

If it were me I would use whatever OS I have laying around unless you want the backup features of WHS (then you will have to deal with something to backup your Sage install). What is happening with your old Server OS?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:01 PM
inlvnv inlvnv is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 95
WHS 2 looks sweet, looking forward to doing a clean install.

Skirge01 - Enjoyed reading your blog. That's one sweet setup you have there.
__________________
Server: Norco 450B server case w/ 1kw PS. Intel i3-530, 3GB RAM and HVR-1800.
Drives: 500GB sys, 2x 2TB, 9x1.5TB, 2x1TB and 1x750GB pooled. 750GB non-pooled for SageTV

Routers: DIR-655 and DIR-825 Bridges: 2xDAP-1522.
Installed: WHS OS, SageTV for WHS, PlayOn and Orb.
SageTV Plugins: PlayOn in OnLine Services.
SageTV clients: HD-200->Samsung LN52A750 and HD-100->Samsung LN40A650
Clients: 5 HP laptops, home built PC, iMac, PS3, PSP, XBox360, 3 iPhones 3gs (through OrbLive).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-01-2010, 01:08 PM
sic0048 sic0048 is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,372
I use WHS for my SageTV system, but I wanted a single machine to run 24/7 and I liked the features in the WHS OS.

That being said, I'll throw in a couple more things to consider.

1) Make sure you check your tuners and other peripherals to make sure they will work with 64bit and RAM in larger than 4gb amounts. It is pretty clear that some of the Hauppauge PCI tuners do not like more than 4gb RAM. Better to know this before you decide what you want.

2) If you go with WHS, keep in mind the biggest complaint is that it doesn't back itself up (and there is no other software that can as far as I know). So there is definitely a risk of data loss with the WHS system drive going out. I'm considering moving my SageTV setup to a virtual machine running on my WHS hardware. That way I can still have just one physical machine running 24/7, but be able to back up my SageTV system to protect against loss. I'm not really concerned about the actual recorded content (ie I don't duplicate or put those shows in the WHS drive pool), but I don't want to loose my wiz.bin and other important files.
__________________
i7-6700 server with about 10tb of space currently
SageTV v9 (64bit)
Ceton InfiniTV ETH 6 cable card tuner (Spectrum cable)
OpenDCT
HD-300 HD Extenders (hooked to my whole-house A/V system for synched playback on multiple TVs - great during a Superbowl party)
Amazon Firestick 4k and Nvidia Shield using the MiniClient
Using CQC to control it all

Last edited by sic0048; 02-01-2010 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Spelling - I suck at it :)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-01-2010, 01:30 PM
Skirge01's Avatar
Skirge01 Skirge01 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlvnv View Post
Skirge01 - Enjoyed reading your blog. That's one sweet setup you have there.
Thanks. If I can find a few days worth of spare time, I have a few more interesting things I want to do with the server and blog about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sic0048
2) If you go with WHS, keep in mind the biggest complaint is that it doesn't back itself up (and there is no other software that can as far as I know). So there is definitely a risk of data loss with the WHS system drive going out. I'm considering moving my SageTV setup to a virtual machine running on my WHS hardware. That way I can still have just one physical machine running 24/7, but be able to back up my SageTV system to protect against loss. I'm not really concerned about the actual recorded content (ie I don't duplicate or put those shows in the WHS drive pool), but I don't want to loose my wiz.bin and other important files.
Without a doubt, this is the biggest complaint I have and you are correct that there's no way for other software to do so. WHS2 will fix this shortcoming, however.
__________________
Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case
Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB
Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion
Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT
Software: SageTV 7
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-01-2010, 06:09 PM
nebulink nebulink is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 295
I think I will be going with Windows 7 Premium 64bit with RDP Hack. I may also move my mail server to this machine within it's own VM.

Currently all my receivers are pvr-500's I wouldn't mind upgrading them to something newer and better if there is such a thing. Maybe I will wait and see if cable card support is coming anytime soon.

Thanks for the input.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-07-2010, 03:57 PM
crobs808's Avatar
crobs808 crobs808 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 67
Installing a 32-bit OS does not make sense if you have more than 3GB of RAM
__________________
Server: Win7 Ultimate 64-bit, 2x Quad Xeon E5420, ATI 4870X2, 8x Pioneer BDR-203
Hardware: Hauppauge HD-PVR
Software: Windows Media Center (formerly SageTV)
Source: ATT U-Verse HD
Output: Panasonic 50" Plasma / LAN
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-07-2010, 04:13 PM
davephan's Avatar
davephan davephan is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,911
Acronis does work with Windows 7 64 bit. I'd recommend Acronis Workstation 10 with the Universal Restore option. With Universal Restore, you can recover to different hardware. You can also schedule it to image every day with a combination of full, differential, and incremental images.

I was going to build my current (4th system) with either WHS, Windows 7, or XP Pro. I decided to stay with XP Pro since Windows 7 isn't officially supported and some people have trouble with it. I'm not sure why you need more than 3 gigs of RAM. My RAM consumption is normally about a gig. I haven't heard of SageTV consuming much more than that much RAM.

As others mentioned WHS has a major flaw, since you cannot backup the operating system. A scratch rebuild is a time consuming and annoying hassle verses rolling a system back to a previous image. A few minutes to start the recovery process, the rest of the 30 minutes unattended. If you use SageTV every day, you don't want a lot of downtime if you have a computer problem.

Dave
__________________
SageTV: LIAN LI PC-K58, Gigabyte GA-EX580UD5, i-7 950 3.06 gig quad LGA 1366 CPU, Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler 1366 bracket, Memory 24 gigs GB, PNY NVIDIA GeoForce 9800 GT 1024 MB, Corsair 750w PSU, Samsung 500GB SSD boot, 3 SSD recording drives
Capture cards: 2 - HDHR Primes - Comcast Xfinity CableTV
Extenders: 1-HD-300, 2-HD-200
Software: Windows 7 Pro X64, Ghost 15, VideoReDo TVSuite 4 h.264, Playon (Netflix), OpenDCT
UnRAID File Server 4.7 Pro: Lian-Li PC-G70B, MBD-X8SIL-F-O, i3-540, 16 TB
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-07-2010, 04:21 PM
crobs808's Avatar
crobs808 crobs808 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by davephan View Post
As others mentioned WHS has a major flaw, since you cannot backup the operating system.
Not true. I use Symantec Ghost 11.5 (old but works) to create weekly images of my WHS, and I have successfully re-ghosted to a brand new harddrive (as a test to see if it would work or not), and it booted up and ran just fine. No need to reinstall anything or setup settings again. Using Symantec Ghost is like the HDD crash never happened since it is a full image everytime you ghost, with boot files and all.
__________________
Server: Win7 Ultimate 64-bit, 2x Quad Xeon E5420, ATI 4870X2, 8x Pioneer BDR-203
Hardware: Hauppauge HD-PVR
Software: Windows Media Center (formerly SageTV)
Source: ATT U-Verse HD
Output: Panasonic 50" Plasma / LAN

Last edited by crobs808; 03-07-2010 at 04:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:09 PM
Fuzzy's Avatar
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jurupa Valley, CA
Posts: 9,957
I believe there are tombstone issues that arrise when doing so. i think the only way the imageing.recovery will work is if the pool data doens't change between image and restore. probably why it worked in your test case.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer)

unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers.
Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA.
Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:12 PM
davephan's Avatar
davephan davephan is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,911
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobs808 View Post
Not true. I use Symantec Ghost 11.5 (old but works) to create weekly images of my WHS, and I have successfully re-ghosted to a brand new harddrive (as a test to see if it would work or not), and it booted up and ran just fine. No need to reinstall anything or setup settings again. Using Symantec Ghost is like the HDD crash never happened since it is a full image everytime you ghost, with boot files and all.
It's good that you tested recovering WHS with an image. That's news to me that the WHS boot drive can be recovered with an image, loosing nothing in OS partition or the drive pool.

If the recovery was done immediately after the image was taken, it may not be an accurate test. If you create the image of the boot drive, then make changes to the files in the pool and boot drive, then let the computer run for a week, then recover it back one week. You then could verify that no files were lost or tombstone data became lost or corrupted.

I haven't found any imaging product that actually supports WHS recoveries. The Symantec web site shows that Ghost 15.0 doesn't support WHS (it isn't listed as one of the supported operating systems). Acronis doesn't support WHS recoveries either.

The newer Ghost 15.0 does support cold imaging, similar to PING, Partition Image is Not Ghost, which might have a better chance at recovering WHS, but I don't know if the recoveries would be successful or reliable.

Dave
__________________
SageTV: LIAN LI PC-K58, Gigabyte GA-EX580UD5, i-7 950 3.06 gig quad LGA 1366 CPU, Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler 1366 bracket, Memory 24 gigs GB, PNY NVIDIA GeoForce 9800 GT 1024 MB, Corsair 750w PSU, Samsung 500GB SSD boot, 3 SSD recording drives
Capture cards: 2 - HDHR Primes - Comcast Xfinity CableTV
Extenders: 1-HD-300, 2-HD-200
Software: Windows 7 Pro X64, Ghost 15, VideoReDo TVSuite 4 h.264, Playon (Netflix), OpenDCT
UnRAID File Server 4.7 Pro: Lian-Li PC-G70B, MBD-X8SIL-F-O, i3-540, 16 TB
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-07-2010, 09:51 PM
crobs808's Avatar
crobs808 crobs808 is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by davephan View Post
The Symantec web site shows that Ghost 15.0 doesn't support WHS (it isn't listed as one of the supported operating systems). Acronis doesn't support WHS recoveries either.
Just to be clear I said "Symantec Ghost" not "Norton Ghost"...believe it or not, there are two different versions, and "Symantec Ghost" is the Corporate version which does support WHS (version 11.5 or higher)
__________________
Server: Win7 Ultimate 64-bit, 2x Quad Xeon E5420, ATI 4870X2, 8x Pioneer BDR-203
Hardware: Hauppauge HD-PVR
Software: Windows Media Center (formerly SageTV)
Source: ATT U-Verse HD
Output: Panasonic 50" Plasma / LAN
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-07-2010, 10:32 PM
davephan's Avatar
davephan davephan is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,911
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobs808 View Post
Just to be clear I said "Symantec Ghost" not "Norton Ghost"...believe it or not, there are two different versions, and "Symantec Ghost" is the Corporate version which does support WHS (version 11.5 or higher)
According to the Symantec web site, there are two versions of Ghost
Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.5 and Norton Ghost 15.0

http://www.symantec.com/themes/ghost/index.jsp

Norton Ghost 15.0 doesn't say anything about supporting WHS

http://www.symantec.com/norton/ghost

Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.5 doesn't say anything about supporting WHS

http://www.symantec.com/business/ghost-solution-suite

The Norton Ghost 15.0 looks like the only imaging product in the home consumer product list

http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/index.jsp

Ghost solution Suite and Backup Exec look like the only imaging products in their Business product line

http://www.symantec.com/business/pro...llproducts.jsp

I haven't found any Symantec product that claims they can image and recover WHS. I haven't found any other product that claims it can image and recover WHS. I know Symantec also has a product called BESR, which I use at work to image and recover servers. BESR cannot image and recover WHS either.

Can you post any URLs of any products that claim they can image and recover WHS? I'd like to see the products that claim they can image and recover WHS because I've been looking for them for months.

Dave
__________________
SageTV: LIAN LI PC-K58, Gigabyte GA-EX580UD5, i-7 950 3.06 gig quad LGA 1366 CPU, Zalman CNPS9700 CPU cooler 1366 bracket, Memory 24 gigs GB, PNY NVIDIA GeoForce 9800 GT 1024 MB, Corsair 750w PSU, Samsung 500GB SSD boot, 3 SSD recording drives
Capture cards: 2 - HDHR Primes - Comcast Xfinity CableTV
Extenders: 1-HD-300, 2-HD-200
Software: Windows 7 Pro X64, Ghost 15, VideoReDo TVSuite 4 h.264, Playon (Netflix), OpenDCT
UnRAID File Server 4.7 Pro: Lian-Li PC-G70B, MBD-X8SIL-F-O, i3-540, 16 TB
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:00 PM
Fuzzy's Avatar
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jurupa Valley, CA
Posts: 9,957
??? Ghost does not support WHS. The reasoning is to recover a WHS drive pool, you ahve to regenerate the tombstones (which are stored on the system drive). If you restore old tombstones connected to a more recent drive pool, you WILL corrupt data. Doing the system reinstall option in the setup is the only way to restore a failed system, because it recreates the tombstones upon reconnecting the drive pool. There is no provision in any version of ghost (or any other imaging software) to do so.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer)

unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers.
Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA.
Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:03 PM
Fuzzy's Avatar
Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jurupa Valley, CA
Posts: 9,957
He DID say ghost 11.5, which is the version of ghost that is included in Symantec Solution Suite 2.5.. however, it is no different than any other version of Ghost 11.5, and certainly doesn't have any more features than Ghost 15. Included in the list of features it doens't have would be true WHS support. Yes, it can image a WHS system partition, and yes, it can restore that partition to the drive.. That does NOT mean it will fully restore a WHS system after a drive failure.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer)

unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers.
Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA.
Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-08-2010, 12:01 AM
stevech stevech is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,643
Wouldn't using a 64 bit OS lead to unavailable drivers for certain tuners?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moving Sage Windows To WHS mayhewda SageTV Software 5 10-27-2009 08:26 AM
WHS vs Windows Server 2008 kevine General Discussion 7 06-03-2009 08:16 AM
Windows Home Server (WHS) questions aobbdb SageTV Software 13 12-10-2007 07:31 PM
Windows Home Server (WHS) krwren SageTV Software 79 07-04-2007 11:41 AM
64bit processors with 32bit OS Question Stuntman Hardware Support 8 09-08-2006 10:12 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.