SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > SageTV Development and Customizations > SageTV Clients Development

Notices

SageTV Clients Development This forum is for discussions relating to SageTV Open Source Clients Development.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2016, 10:03 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,711
Android MiniClient vs Extenders (HD300, HD200, etc) vs Full Sage Client (Windows)

I just wanted to start a thread that would potentially help people understand the differences between each of these solutions.

Ultimately I'd like to provide a Table with a Check List. If people could post some pros/pros, in format something like...

H265
Android: YES
HD300: No
Full Client: MAYBE (full client might do software decoding, but could possible do hardware decoding if video card supports it, and using XXX decoder)

DVD PlayBack
Android: NO
HD300: YES
Full Client: YES

Here is the Feature Comparison List

I think ultimately the list woud provide a feature gap analysis between HD300 and the Android client, but, also, I think that it would help people understand what kind of client they need. (ie, if DVD playback is really important, then the Android Client is not likely the right choice)

Last edited by stuckless; 04-02-2016 at 12:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-01-2016, 10:50 AM
KeithAbbott KeithAbbott is online now
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,306
This sounds like a great idea. For DVD playback, you may want to be more specific (i.e. Clients can playback physical DVDs), and as far as ripped DVDs go, you may want to specify the format type(s) (vob structures, iso files, etc.)

Also, there are hardware differences. For instance, HD300 can utilize IR remotes, and can utilize a remote IR to be able to hide the unit. Probably quite a few other hardware differences beyond that...
__________________
Server: MSI Z270 SLI Plus ATX Motherboard, Intel i7-7700T CPU, 32GB Memory, Unraid 6.9.2, sagetvopen-sagetv-server-opendct-java11 Docker
Tuners: 2 x SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime Cable TV Tuners, SiliconDust HDHomeRun CONNECT 4K OTA Tuner
Clients: Multiple HD300 Extenders, Multiple Fire TV Stick 4K Max w/MiniClient
Miscellaneous: Multiple Sony RM-VLZ620 Universal Remote Controls
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-01-2016, 07:49 PM
SageWizdom SageWizdom is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: https://github.com/SageWizdom/SageConnect
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
H265
Android: YES
HD300: No
Full Client: MAYBE (full client might do software decoding, but could possible do hardware decoding if video card supports it, and using XXX decoder)
When you state support for H265 above is that straight payback support or can I make the assumption that it is H265 support for all (most) features? ex. comskip, ff/rw, other? I think much of this really happens on the server, but not sure.

My question is really around H264, but may apply to 265 also. I notice that specifically with transcoded video, FastForward 1 & 2 (or rewind) are very unhappy. However I'm not sure if that is the server end or the decoder end.
__________________
Server: Centos Server 14.04 LTS - 64Bit, VM in XenServer, 2 cores of a Intel i7, 2-4 GB Ram, 8 GB system Disk, 1.8 TB storage, SageTV V9.0.4.232, HDHR Prime x 1

Clients: PC Client x 1, HD-300 x 1, AppleTV x 2, WebClient (phone/tablet) x 3
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-02-2016, 05:16 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageWizdom View Post
When you state support for H265 above is that straight payback support or can I make the assumption that it is H265 support for all (most) features? ex. comskip, ff/rw, other? I think much of this really happens on the server, but not sure.

My question is really around H264, but may apply to 265 also. I notice that specifically with transcoded video, FastForward 1 & 2 (or rewind) are very unhappy. However I'm not sure if that is the server end or the decoder end.
Yeah H265 uses hardware decoding on Android TV boxes so it fully supports skipping, etc.

When you Transcode, on the fly, FF/REW will not be as responsive, but h264 encoded files should play just fine (they do for me, and all my recordings are h264).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-02-2016, 08:52 AM
pdermody pdermody is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7
Native Output Switching
Android: No
Full Client: No
HD300: Yes
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-02-2016, 11:16 AM
valnar valnar is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,242
Send a message via ICQ to valnar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdermody View Post
Native Output Switching
Android: No
Full Client: No
HD300: Yes
Yeah, this and embedded CC/Sub support is available on the HD300's too. Until those are replicated in some fashion to a different device, the HD300's are worth their weight in gold. I'm also a big fan of the Sigma Design chips in general.
__________________
Server: ASUS Q87M-E, Intel i5-4590S, 8GB RAM, DR-400-6 RM case, 2x Addonics Disk Array 3SA, 9TB disk, 2x HDHomeRun, HD-PVR 1212, Win8.1-64bit, Sage 9
Client 1: HD300 on Panasonic Plasma TC-P50ST60
Client 2: HD300 on Vizio 40"
Others: Sage Client & Placeshifter
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-02-2016, 12:43 PM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,711
Feature List

I create/updated the Feature list
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-02-2016, 12:55 PM
valnar valnar is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,242
Send a message via ICQ to valnar
The Windows client supports embedded subtitles now?
__________________
Server: ASUS Q87M-E, Intel i5-4590S, 8GB RAM, DR-400-6 RM case, 2x Addonics Disk Array 3SA, 9TB disk, 2x HDHomeRun, HD-PVR 1212, Win8.1-64bit, Sage 9
Client 1: HD300 on Panasonic Plasma TC-P50ST60
Client 2: HD300 on Vizio 40"
Others: Sage Client & Placeshifter
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-02-2016, 12:56 PM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by valnar View Post
The Windows client supports embedded subtitles now?
I just assumed so... if that is not the case, then I'll update the list. (I don't run windows, and I've never used the windows full client, so, I can't say for sure).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-02-2016, 02:03 PM
valnar valnar is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,242
Send a message via ICQ to valnar
Nope, the Windows client doesn't support embedded subtitles in MKV/MP4 files. One of the big reasons those extenders are so popular. If an enterprising developer wants to fix that, I'd open up those Intel NUC's as decent replacements.
__________________
Server: ASUS Q87M-E, Intel i5-4590S, 8GB RAM, DR-400-6 RM case, 2x Addonics Disk Array 3SA, 9TB disk, 2x HDHomeRun, HD-PVR 1212, Win8.1-64bit, Sage 9
Client 1: HD300 on Panasonic Plasma TC-P50ST60
Client 2: HD300 on Vizio 40"
Others: Sage Client & Placeshifter
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-05-2016, 04:06 AM
Clift Clift is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 555
What about 1080i ATSC?

I know it says mpeg2ts, but I just want to make sure since most ARM based devices don't do mpeg2 deciding in hardware. Is this a Shield exclusive or does it decode in software?
__________________
Server:W7 Ultimate, SageTV 7.1.9
Capture Devices: HVR-2250, 2x HD PVR 1212
Clients:
1x STX-HD100
3x STP-HD200
@cliftpompee
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-05-2016, 04:34 AM
valnar valnar is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,242
Send a message via ICQ to valnar
I'm not at home to check, but I'm not sure Windows support native output switching either.
__________________
Server: ASUS Q87M-E, Intel i5-4590S, 8GB RAM, DR-400-6 RM case, 2x Addonics Disk Array 3SA, 9TB disk, 2x HDHomeRun, HD-PVR 1212, Win8.1-64bit, Sage 9
Client 1: HD300 on Panasonic Plasma TC-P50ST60
Client 2: HD300 on Vizio 40"
Others: Sage Client & Placeshifter
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-05-2016, 04:58 AM
EnterNoEscape's Avatar
EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clift View Post
What about 1080i ATSC?

I know it says mpeg2ts, but I just want to make sure since most ARM based devices don't do mpeg2 deciding in hardware. Is this a Shield exclusive or does it decode in software?
The Shield, Nexus Player and FireTV (not FireTV Stick) all have hardware MPEG2 decoding support.

Although I have to say the Nexus Player is probably the worst at dealing with interlaced MPEG2 content. The HD300 kills it quality-wise.
__________________
SageTV v9 Server: ASRock Z97 Extreme4, Intel i7-4790K @ 4.4Ghz, 32GB RAM, 6x 3TB 7200rpm HD, 2x 5TB 7200rpm HD, 2x 6TB 7200rpm HD, 4x 256GB SSD, 4x 500GB SSD, unRAID Pro 6.7.2 (Dual Parity + SSD Cache).
Capture: 1x Ceton InfiniTV 4 (ClearQAM), 2x Ceton InfiniTV 6, 1x BM1000-HDMI, 1x BM3500-HDMI.

Clients: 1x HD300 (Living Room), 1x HD200 (Master Bedroom).
Software: OpenDCT :: WMC Live TV Tuner :: Schedules Direct EPG
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-05-2016, 05:09 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clift View Post
What about 1080i ATSC?

I know it says mpeg2ts, but I just want to make sure since most ARM based devices don't do mpeg2 deciding in hardware. Is this a Shield exclusive or does it decode in software?
NVidia Shield and Nexus Player both support hardware decoding of MPEG2 streams. Basically the MiniClient will use hardware decoders for mpeg2, h264 and h265 if the device has support for it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-05-2016, 05:37 AM
KeithAbbott KeithAbbott is online now
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 1,306
How about including a row for which java heap the device uses (client = client, HD300/Android = server). After all, that is one of the big selling points of the client.
__________________
Server: MSI Z270 SLI Plus ATX Motherboard, Intel i7-7700T CPU, 32GB Memory, Unraid 6.9.2, sagetvopen-sagetv-server-opendct-java11 Docker
Tuners: 2 x SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime Cable TV Tuners, SiliconDust HDHomeRun CONNECT 4K OTA Tuner
Clients: Multiple HD300 Extenders, Multiple Fire TV Stick 4K Max w/MiniClient
Miscellaneous: Multiple Sony RM-VLZ620 Universal Remote Controls
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-05-2016, 06:35 AM
stuckless's Avatar
stuckless stuckless is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAbbott View Post
How about including a row for which java heap the device uses (client = client, HD300/Android = server). After all, that is one of the big selling points of the client.
That's kind of a hard one to put down empirically... I run a 700mb JVM on Linux and I connect 3-4 MinClients and I've never had an issue with memory. I know on windows it seems to be a different story. It would be a hard one to put into #s into the chart, though. It's almost a seperate JVM/Connections chart
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-05-2016, 07:43 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by valnar View Post
I'm not at home to check, but I'm not sure Windows support native output switching either.
It does not, that's exclusive to the hardware extenders (unless the Android clients do).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-10-2016, 11:46 AM
phareous phareous is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 235
So can you maybe post a suggestion on the comparison chart on how to deal with lack of DVD/Bluray playback? I'm assuming the only solution would be to convert the ripped folders into MKV/H264?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2016, 10:15 AM
panteragstk's Avatar
panteragstk panteragstk is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 3,312
That's what I did. MakeMKV has a batch version that will scan a folder and output .mkv to another (or same if you want) with whatever settings you choose. Worked very well for me.

Having said that, I don't use SageTV for movie playback any longer. I've been using Plex and it works great.

On my Windows clients I was using the external player plugin to use MPC-HC for movie playback. Much more reliable than Sage due to directshow being a PITA.
__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA
Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60
Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u
Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-19-2016, 07:37 AM
sacrament055 sacrament055 is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 474
I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing the same sorts of issues I'm seeing with the ShieldTV mini client.

I'm seeing with IJK PLayer occasional slow motion on the video which then catches up (much like when I start watching something). I've seen it crash back to the ShieldTV desktop a couple times.

EXO Player seems to play better except when I try to skip it loses track of the video but audio keeps playing.

I figured I'd check if it's just me so that I can figure out what on my system is causing this or if it's a known issue.

I do not see any problem using my HD300 for playback so I'm assuming my server side setup is ok.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Android MiniClient - Subtitle + CC support stuckless SageTV Clients Development 42 01-01-2018 08:17 AM
Android MiniClient for TV is Released to the Play Store stuckless SageTV Clients Development 106 01-08-2017 01:42 AM
[Android MiniClient] Now in BETA stuckless SageTV Clients Development 487 07-03-2016 03:55 PM
[Android MiniClient] Need a better start screen stuckless SageTV Clients Development 16 01-29-2016 01:55 PM
MPEG2 Support in Android MiniClient stuckless SageTV Clients Development 24 01-03-2016 10:09 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.