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  #1  
Old 07-03-2006, 09:43 AM
Generalg Generalg is offline
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HD Issues with VMR9 and 6150 onboard video

I just purchased SageTV V5 after testing the trial for the last week. Really like the interface and setup options avaliable over other DVR software. Just one small factor still.......

I've got eveything working correctly with the exception of HD viewing. When viewing HD content such as CSI, Criminal Minds, Nascar etc. I get video playback that looks as if it choppy/jerky, not 100% fluid as it should be. This is with using VMR9 with the Nvidia Purevideo decoder Version: 1.02-223. With sound there is no problem to speak of using default and HD Realtek decoder. But on the other hand while switching over to Overlay and still using the Nvidia Purvideo decoder I get smooth playback with no choppy or jerky video playback it is very fluid.

I can tell a difference between the VMR9 and the overlay. VMR9 looks much more crisp and detailed to me vs. overlay. I'm just wondering if the 6150 is not capable to handle HD content using VMR9. I have tried switching between FSE and non FSE using VMR9, doesn't seem to make a difference.

When I open up the HD recording in WMP the playback is perfect just like in Sage when using overlay....

I'm wondering/questioning if I need to buy a better video card, like in the line of a 7600GT/GS EVGA card to support better HD viewing.




Here are the specs of the PC I'm using for my HTPC and Server for SageTV.

-AMD ATHLON XP 3200
-MSI K8NGM2-FID with latest 3.2 bios
-1 GB Corsair RAM (dual 512MB sticks for dual channel)
-Seagate SATA 2 300GB HD (15MB OS partition, rest is for SAGETV recordings) Formatted at 64K clusters
-NEC DL DVD burner
-Vbox Cateye 150 HDTV tuner
-Antennas Direct DB4 UHF HDTV Antenna
-MCE Remote and keyboard
-Windows XP Pro
-April 2006 DirectX 9
-MCE Rollup 2 for MCE Keyboard
-All WinXp updates
-Nvidia 81.78 Forceware Drivers
-Samsung HLR5087W 50" Pedistal DLP Widescreen HDTV
-35FT HDMI to DVI cable from Monoprice

Last edited by Generalg; 07-03-2006 at 09:57 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2006, 02:26 PM
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Humanzee Humanzee is offline
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I think your hunches are right about not having enough video card. I have a AGP 6600GT and it doesn't like to do HDTV VMR9 in SageTV. It only has 128mb of video ram so that might be part of the problem too. FSE "could" help but it created problems for me when going to a windowed view and resuming from the system tray.

I have a Athlon 3200+ also, though it is socket 754, I think its not quite enough also.

In my next machine I think I am going to try a dual core proc and at least a 7600GT PCIe. I can't say for sure that it will help, it could be a driver issue.

Maybe you should go to your local computer shop that has the best return policy and "Rent" a 7600gt for the weekend and see if it works. If it helps then you have your fix. If not, you have a legitamate reason to return it.
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2006, 07:48 AM
emok emok is offline
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I'm having the same problem as Generalg. I have onboard 6150 and I'm running VMR9/FSE.

Playback of certain HD content is not 100% smooth. I would think it's not enough video card, but the fact that it plays back in WMP fine is throwing me off.

Does anyone know the correct settings in WMP to simulate the FSE/VMR9 environment in sage? I want to try to reproduce the choppiness in WMP.

Thanks
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2006, 08:18 AM
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mlbdude mlbdude is offline
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WMP does not support VMR9 or FSE. The general minimum for nVidia for smooth 1080i HD is a 6600GT (though some high clocked 6600's may do it). You also HAVE to run FSE on an nVidia or you will get stuttering. ATI does not need this.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2006, 11:14 AM
emok emok is offline
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After playing around with some settings in the nvidia control panel, I seem to have somewhat resolved this problem (there is still some slight choppiness in some content that's hardly noticeable). The setting that seemed to make the most difference in my situation was DISABLING the inverse telecine functionality.

I guess the 6150 doesn't have enought horsepower to keep up with this feature enabled.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this is in the latest nvidia forceware driver 91.31
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2006, 12:56 PM
Mahoney Mahoney is offline
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According to the nVidia site, the 6150 can't do inverse telecine or motion based de-interlacing on HD. So I guess that's it - when they say it can;t, what they actually mean is that it can't do it smoothly.

Can you set it differently for SD and HD? Or are you forced to live without inverse telecine on SD, or else change the setting whenever you move between the two? Bit crap if so.
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2006, 11:30 PM
emok emok is offline
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Unfortunately, it looks like I'd need to change it each time I want to switch.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2006, 01:14 AM
Mahoney Mahoney is offline
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That's a pain. I was planning on getting a 6150 based motherboard myself. Bit short-sighted of them...

I wonder if they'll bring out an onboard chipset that can do everything?

Also, the table of features here:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html
does not contain the 7300GT. The 7300GS and 7300LE, along with the 7600GS, lack some features for HD - but the 7600GT does not. I'm wondering if the 7300GT might have those features too?
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2006, 05:02 AM
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mlbdude mlbdude is offline
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Don't read too much into HD IVTC. It does not work too well, even on cards that support it. I run a regular 6600GT on my production box (7600GT on the test) and the 6600 handles everything just fine. If you have a realy sensative display that requires it though you can wait till nVIdia fixes it or try DScaler IVTC.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2006, 12:17 PM
Generalg Generalg is offline
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Where is this setting??? I've looked everywhere in the nvidia control panel and calnnot find this setting to change. I'm using 84.21 drivers now. I had to overclock the CPU up to 230MHZ to get almost jitter free HD playback, but still occasionally ever so slightly I still have some jitter/choppiness. I'm just about 2 clicks away from ordering the EVGA 7600GT from newegg to hopefully get rid of the HD playback issues and take full advantage of everything HD needs... but now reading what mlbdude is saying in that even the 7600GT is not enough????

THanks for everyone's help!




Quote:
Originally Posted by emok
After playing around with some settings in the nvidia control panel, I seem to have somewhat resolved this problem (there is still some slight choppiness in some content that's hardly noticeable). The setting that seemed to make the most difference in my situation was DISABLING the inverse telecine functionality.

I guess the 6150 doesn't have enought horsepower to keep up with this feature enabled.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this is in the latest nvidia forceware driver 91.31
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2006, 12:24 PM
Mahoney Mahoney is offline
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Quote:
Don't read too much into HD IVTC. It does not work too well, even on cards that support it. I run a regular 6600GT on my production box (7600GT on the test) and the 6600 handles everything just fine. If you have a realy sensative display that requires it though you can wait till nVIdia fixes it or try DScaler IVTC.
I can live without HD IVTC - but I'd like it for SD, and apparently if it's turned on for SD then it's on for HD and HD then becomes too choppy. Seems a bit pants, so I've raised a question with nVidia about it - the drivers either ought to let you set it separately for HD and SD, or else they ought to work out you are using hardware that can;t cope and disable it automatically at that point.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2006, 12:32 PM
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Humanzee Humanzee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Generalg
Where is this setting???
Get the most recent drivers.
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2006, 12:49 PM
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mlbdude mlbdude is offline
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While nVidia IVTC for HD is pretty bad for even cards that can handle it, if you can live without that the 7600GT is more than enough. As I mentioned I get super smooth HD 1080i playback even on my 6600GT. NOTE: this is all for outputting 1080i at 1080i. If you are just dealing with 720p you don't need as much for VMR9.
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  #14  
Old 07-05-2006, 01:01 PM
Motofreak75 Motofreak75 is offline
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Hey mlbdude


Thanks for the tip for using FSE with VMR9, that solved my studder issue with my 7600gs and the world cup in 1080i looks great.
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2006, 01:25 PM
Generalg Generalg is offline
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The Samsung DLP HDTV I have is native to 720P. I have only tried setting the screen to 1280X720 with adjustment for overscan/underscan. So it is around 1211X696 or so... I have never tried setting the resolution to 1080i.

Just to clarify what you are saying mlbdude: There is not any need for the IVTC for HD correct? In that regards the 7600GT would be a waste of money than compared to that with of the built in 6150 graphics..... I guess I had it in my head that with the addition of the three extra HD features (Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing, Inverse Telecine, and Bad Edit Correction) would be needed for good HD playback. If I don't need these three things for good quality HD playback, which I really don't understand what they are or do than the 6150 with overclocking the CPU I think is the way I'm going to stay. Will get the latest 91.33 installed again.

Thanks
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  #16  
Old 07-05-2006, 03:10 PM
Mahoney Mahoney is offline
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mlbdude - the reason for getting the 6150 is to keep the price down, buying a 7600GT as well would defeat the objective.
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2006, 03:20 PM
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mlbdude mlbdude is offline
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For my CRT HDTV I do not need IVTC. I am not an expert on displays so I could not say whether you would get stutter free. From what I have read in other forums is that users that have displays that output at 24pfs have the major need for it.

If you don't need HD IVTC you can keep cost down with a 7600GS or a 6600GT. Unfortunatlely the 6150 is just not strong enough for full resolution HD output with VMR9.

Besides the brute power needed to drive 1080i in VMR9, the only feature that is very important is the Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing. Without it you end up converting 1080i content to 540p.
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  #18  
Old 07-05-2006, 03:46 PM
Generalg Generalg is offline
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Well I've not had any luck getting everything completly jitter free...

I just bought a EVGA 7600GT KO. If this doesn't fix the issue with HD content and VMR9 enabled.... well I dunno what I will do next, throw the HTPC out the window I gues. uuuurrrr
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2006, 03:53 PM
geogecko geogecko is offline
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You can get "close" to stutter free 1080 HD output at VMR9, on a 6600GT, but not quite. You have to use Overlay to get all the stuttering out, I've found, and there tends to be a fairly big difference in PQ or color rendition between Overlay and VMR9 (VMR9 being better). I even overclocked my 6600GT, and still found it couldn't handle 1080, with or without FSE on VMR9.
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2006, 06:23 PM
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mlbdude mlbdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogecko
You can get "close" to stutter free 1080 HD output at VMR9, on a 6600GT, but not quite. You have to use Overlay to get all the stuttering out, I've found, and there tends to be a fairly big difference in PQ or color rendition between Overlay and VMR9 (VMR9 being better). I even overclocked my 6600GT, and still found it couldn't handle 1080, with or without FSE on VMR9.
You may want to try another player to be sure it is not SageTV. I know of several systems with 6600GT's that play perfectly smooth 1080i HD (all CRT's though).
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