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SageTV Github Development Discussion related to SageTV Open Source Development. Use this forum for development topics about the Open Source versions of SageTV, hosted on Github.

View Poll Results: What is your Dream SageTV Client
The HD300 extender client is perfect for my needs 24 17.39%
HD300 extedender for 2015+ (4K, h265, Altmos, Hi10p) 83 60.14%
Linux/Windows PC NUC 19 13.77%
Kodi x86 Windows or Linux client 9 6.52%
Android Kodi client 7 5.07%
Android SageTV client 44 31.88%
Speciality device (FireTV, Apple, Roku, game console) 45 32.61%
Plex/UPnP client on any device is fine 14 10.14%
Also support DRM streaming (eg Netflix, Hulu, Spotify) 56 40.58%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #161  
Old 04-15-2015, 11:22 PM
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tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post
The MHL adapter that I linked to will function (with my Pioneer AppRadio2 and Galaxy S4) with or without the power feed. (Note: with the authentic Samsung MHL adapter, not a knock-off that seems to have surfaced in that link).

Fuzzy interpreted correctly for the most part - if I'm in the car navigating, and the phone screen is on full time, the charging via MHL just isn't enough to even hold the original charge over time.

Much of my perceived failure of the MHL adapter lies in the complete failure of Pioneer to release a proper software for what could have been a great car head unit.
I also have a Pioneer head unit, and yes, we are lucky if one software update is ever released before a new model appears. The "knock-off" works perfectly, no audio/video glitches. I would have bought the Samsung unit, but so many Galaxy S4 owners wrote Amazon reviews that said the unit didn't charge either if connected to HDMI.
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  #162  
Old 04-18-2015, 08:55 PM
JWB JWB is offline
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Lacking

1) Support for cablecard protected content interface. There is no reason the MS (WMC) should be the only solution to allow presenting of protected content.
2) Native support for playing .iso files, including 3d bluray and through the HD300. Mede8er does it for me now. There is no reason to have to have Xbox to extend WMC, and Mede8er to play 3d .iso files.

When SageTV can do these things, I will have a much simpler and less expensive architecture to serve up anything one can want. It is 2015 and to still have a heterogenoeous architecture just seems like it will limit less technically inclined folks who just want their media.

This would complete my dream system. Oh, and also simplify the control subsystem like IR, RF, wireless, hodgepodge interfaces required to centralize devices in an equipmment closet. Controlling ONE extender (HD300) would be oh so nice, and economical. My equipment closet is burning up with all of the specialized media server devices required to provide the various entertainment options.

Oh, and it would be nice to have an updated HDMI interface on the HD300, maybe even some server/client, matrix switching capability, oh, and better integration with the main workhorse in an A/V system, the AVR.

All running through a cooler running, single extender, the HD400. 😍

Am I asking too much?
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  #163  
Old 04-18-2015, 10:09 PM
JWB JWB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
No offense but I do not get this idea at all (and this applies to the Xbox one as well). To me this is more complicated and cumbersome than just hitting a button on my URC and switching inputs to a different device. Then again, I don't get the fascination with "one box" either. Now I get the dream of "one interface" that was great while it lasted for me, but once that dream dies, I'd rather just have separate boxes that each perform their function well, than one box that does everything "poorly".

Besides I think any hardware extender, especially one that would require new hardware to be custom made, is truly a dream and nothing more.
I don't want one box that does everything poorly and I don't want multiple boxes that do one thing well. Of course, I want one box that does everything well and simply. Most people (i.e., everyone but us techies) can't and don't want to deal with all of the interface issues. They just want their media served up.

The problem that I see is that these forums have and always will represent the desires of the gadget people, not the ordinary media user. We only represent a fraction of a fraction of users. A one-box solution (extender) is clearly the sustainable route to go and only if users are willing to have a PC-based server. Tivo, from a marketing perspective is the closest thing we have that is sellable to the masses. I say, build a do everything well extender and build a dedicated SageTV box, branded as such, and sell the whole architecture. With this, I fully support the idea of partnering with HDHomeRun, then getting proper DRM licensing agreements so that MS WMC doesnt have an exclusive on protected content - this is just wrong. My three cents. I'd buy it!!!
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  #164  
Old 04-21-2015, 08:54 PM
NoodleNT NoodleNT is offline
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Would love to see a native IOS app to start. I find the web client just doesn't playback well. I tend to transcode to an iPad/iPhone format and use RSS to pull in through the podcast app if I planned ahead. Else I use Air Video because the better quality.

I would also love a client/server model that didn't require nightly reboots for stability.
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  #165  
Old 04-21-2015, 09:27 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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I go a month or so between reboots - the main thing that forces reboots is JVM running out. And I have two HD-PVRs as my tuners.

But I agree with the iOS app.
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  #166  
Old 04-22-2015, 07:12 AM
valnar valnar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodleNT View Post
I would also love a client/server model that didn't require nightly reboots for stability.
You have another problem then. I only reboot for backups or updates, so maybe every couple weeks.
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  #167  
Old 04-22-2015, 04:29 PM
blade blade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valnar View Post
You have another problem then. I only reboot for backups or updates, so maybe every couple weeks.
I agree, if someone is having to reboot daily there is probably some other issue. I'd say I reboot every 2-3 months when doing updates to the server.
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  #168  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:32 PM
waynedunham waynedunham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade View Post
I agree, if someone is having to reboot daily there is probably some other issue. I'd say I reboot every 2-3 months when doing updates to the server.
It could be a couple things that I've run into, although not usually a "daily" reboot. I have seen where people with a lot of extenders/clients run into the Java Heap limit a lot. Also people with a lot of plugins. Some of those can really run up the heap.
Also, when my HD-PVR's were my main way of getting a lot of content my old original HD-PVR would screw up often and I know that others used to reboot daily to "fix" this. I found that simply power cycling the HD-PVR would clear it and it would start recording again without having to reboot the server/SageTV.

Since I set my encoder merit priorities so that my old original HD-PVR is last in the list and gets used very rarely My reboots are similar to yours now, maybe once ever couple weeks, or when I do Windows Update.
Once in a while, especially if I've been doing a lot of IMDB lookups is seems, I'll run into Java Heap problems requiring a reboot.
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  #169  
Old 04-24-2015, 05:25 PM
NetworkGuy NetworkGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
well, for me, the only negative to playon (and playlater) is that it is limited to SD when played back through sage at this point. This should be a relatively simply coding change to allow the HD stream from playon once source code is available - it is just that sage is not reporting anything other than 'Java' as it's user agent to the plex server, so it defaults to it's lower quality stream. As soon as sage starts reporting a proper user agent, it will allow us to get PlayOn to recognize that it is capable of the HD stream, and they will add the sage user agent to the white list for HD streams.
I use PlayLater to record shows that I have missed. It stores the recording in a SageTV Media Center Import Directory. Next time SageTV runs a scan, it finds the file and adds it.
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  #170  
Old 04-24-2015, 05:41 PM
lewispm lewispm is offline
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Perfect setup

I have an HD200 on the LR TV and a desktop server also running a client for the bedroom tv.

To me, ideally, I'd like a NUC running the server AND a client on one of the TVs and extenders on any other TVs. If the server can also run a client, it makes sense to put one of the TVs on that one.

The logical next step is to prioritize the complexities/issues that the computer front end has regarding codecs. If the client is a linux, windows, or mac box it opens up a lot more options.
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  #171  
Old 05-08-2015, 12:57 PM
CanadianEh CanadianEh is offline
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To the original question, I would like to see a Raspberry Pi 2 client - the devices are cheap, small, and support MPEG2 which is essential to decode OTA, unless some conversion process is used.

A Linux and Windows client set would still be great.
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  #172  
Old 05-26-2015, 05:22 AM
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DIBU DIBU is offline
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Raspberry Pi Client (see rasplex)
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  #173  
Old 05-28-2015, 04:25 PM
Edd.Dantes Edd.Dantes is offline
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I've been thinking about this for a few weeks, thought it was time to add my 2 pennies.

Well, I sorta waited for the Nvidia shield console (Android TV) to finally go on sale...

When I discovered that Sage was going open source, I had very much leaned towards a dedicated box, like the HD300, but saw that that may be an antiquated path. 2010 was a long, long, time ago... as far as streaming progress is concerned.

My first choice would have been Roku or FireTV because those have been the best boxes for me. Apple TV is too closed and the hardware is ancient. Raspberry seems way too underpowered for my taste (admitting to not owning one). Roku disappointed last month when they didn't release any new hardware. It's still a wonderful platform but I am looking for something future-proof. It's also limited on expansion and ports, as is Raspberry.

So, the Nvidia, being the first, real, 4k box, seemed like a great idea. I got a little bit of a lashing in the HD300 (for sale) thread... for posting my opinion that I would wait because a 5 year old box was being sold for a ridiculous amount. I stand by what I said. $225 is insane for old hardware. Google doesn't need the money and should have liquidated them at pennies on the dollar. 50 bucks is about all I would have spent

Anyway, we may have a long road ahead of us but I think Android is about the only logical, first, choice. With Android, you can co-develop an app for Android OS, Android TV and for FireTV (side-load or native as it's an Android fork). For $200 you can get a state of the art Nvidia X1 processor that devours 4k content, streams Netflix, and anything Android can, it is also more powerful, for gaming, than an Xbox 360 or PS3.... all for less than these 5 year old extenders are going for. $225 for an HD300, sorry, but no fn thank you. I'm crazy but not that crazy
And the Roku and Raspberry would be easier to work on, as they are linux based, as well.

http://shield.nvidia.com/android-tv

I am not a coder/developer but I would be happy to buy one and tell developers what doesn't work

Seriously though, I would love to help in any way

ETA: I didn't mention Xbox One or PS4 (I have both) because both Microsoft and Sony were stupid to not allow 4k output, for streaming apps. I know games struggle at 720 & 1080p.
I don't know who will spearhead any program/app development but we need to narrow our choices down and at least agree on something. HD200 and 300 were tailored boxes
and if development goes 20 different ways, we may have a lot of mediocre solutions instead of 1 or 2 really great ones. I'm not saying the Nvidia box is the best but it's 4k and
has tons of horsepower and ports. Besides a NUC, it's the most future-proof, and the NUC's can't even do 4k.

ETA 2: Ok, the new NUC's can do 4k but you have to add soooo much to make them a real system. They would cost $5-600, depending on RAM, HDD, OS choices.


Last edited by Edd.Dantes; 05-28-2015 at 05:19 PM.
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  #174  
Old 05-28-2015, 05:37 PM
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phelme phelme is offline
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there's a review of the Shield on Android Central today.
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  #175  
Old 05-28-2015, 06:01 PM
valnar valnar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edd.Dantes View Post
When I discovered that Sage was going open source, I had very much leaned towards a dedicated box, like the HD300, but saw that that may be an antiquated path. 2010 was a long, long, time ago... as far as streaming progress is concerned.

So, the Nvidia, being the first, real, 4k box, seemed like a great idea. I got a little bit of a lashing in the HD300 (for sale) thread... for posting my opinion that I would wait because a 5 year old box was being sold for a ridiculous amount. I stand by what I said. $225 is insane for old hardware. Google doesn't need the money and should have liquidated them at pennies on the dollar. 50 bucks is about all I would have spent
Well, to paraphrase Forrest Gump, old is as old does. The box may be old, but it still supports 1080p, DTS and AC3, and does it with aplomb. It's still the best Sage client out there, and supports subtitles in MKV files unlike the software clients. If you want to go by age, the completely modern Raspberry Pi2 basically supports the same specs, and the scaling isn't quite as good. The Pi2 doesn't do 4K either.

Until my TV is a 4K TV and I get media that is, that doesn't concern me as much. And I have yet to find somebody who can tell the difference between DTS or DTS-HD.

All in due time I suppose, but right now the HD300 is still more than modern enough. A day doesn't go by where I'm not using it, and happy its not a Pi2 running XBMC, Plex, or anything else half as stable.
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  #176  
Old 05-28-2015, 07:58 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
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The HD300 has stood up quite well. Practically speaking, it has much better support for local media playback than most of the newer options we're seeing (meaning, it plays back HD mpeg2 and blu-ray rips), and it's GUI is more responsive than a newer Roku 3.

The Shield has potential, but I would want to see hardware-accelerated mpeg2 (unless I can be convinced software works just fine), AC3/DTS decoding and pass-through, and probably 24hz refresh rates before I would seriously start considering it a viable alternative to an HD300. And that's assuming someone down the line decides to make a Sage AndroidTV app.

Even then, though, I'm likely to still need two boxes. Android TV still doesn't work with HBO Go and Amazon Instant Video. Until that changes I'm going to keep my Roku boxes around.

I bought two HD300s in the most recent sale as spares. I have no regrets.
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  #177  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:29 PM
Grant Grant is offline
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I have the Mede8er to playback my 3D Blu Ray ISO's right now. It looks like it would make a pretty good extender with the added bonus of being able to support 3D. I use HDMI passthrough for HDMI audio and it works great but like others have said I have to go back and forth between my Sage Extender and the Mede8er to play back video from my server. I really don't think 4k would be beneficial at this point until we start seeing a lot more content in that format.

Processor: Realtek RTD1186 750Mhz 512 SLC Flash 512 DDR3 SDRAM
Video Formats Supported: AVI / BDMV Light / BDISO Light / MKV / TS / TP / TRP / M2TS / MPG / MP4 / MOV / M4V / VOB / ISO / IFO / DAT / WMV / ASF / RM / RMVB / FLV resolution up to 720p / 1080i / 1080p
3D Video: 3D BDISO, MVC, SBS, T&B, Frame Sequential, Frame Packing (max 1920 x 1080) Video Codecs Supported: MPEG-1-2 / MPEG-4 SP /ASP /AVC (H.264) / XviD / WMV9 (VC-1) / RealVideo 8/9/10 (up to 720P)
Audio Codec Supported: Mp3 / Mp2 / OGG Vorbis / PCM / LPCM / AAC / RA / Dolby True HD - DTS MA Passthrough on HDMI / AC3 - DTS 5.1 / FLAC up to 24bit 192Khz on HDMI - 96khz on SPDIF Optical / WAV / WMA Standard (DRM, & Advanced Profile not supported)
Photo format Supported: JPEG, BMP, GIF, TIFF, PNG
File System Supported: FAT32, NTFS, HFS+ for Hard Drive
Video output: NTSC, PAL, 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 1080p 23.976, 24hz, Auto Frame Rate
Input/Outputs: HDMI 1.4 Component Video Composite Video Stereo RCA SD SDHC SPDIF Optical HOST Port x 2 USB 2.0 Gbit Network Port
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  #178  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:46 PM
Edd.Dantes Edd.Dantes is offline
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Good stuff guys/gals... Some I agree with.

I don't agree that 4k isn't something to look at now. I don't have a 4k tv, yet, but I will buy one next year and really hope to have a stable solution by then. It could take 6-12 months to get SageOS and a client/shifter to that point. Development for it definitely needs to start as soon as possible.

If we don't, then when, exactly? It's a chicken/egg thing... It shouldn't be the primary objective but it should be on a front-burner.

H.265 is exploding now and so is 4k. Not to mention that internet speeds are, ok... they are hit or miss (in the states) but should mostly increase. This is great for streaming and more things will go 4k or upscale nicely (maybe).

I'm definitely not opposed to, say, an HD400 with all the bells and whistles but I only push an app of sorts because I can't trust the Sage team anymore. $225 for a 2010 box.... rage all you want.... That has me not trusting a few people here. As cheap as tech is now, and all the new Chinese companies, the NEW dedicated boxes should be the same price, or cheaper, than they were in 2010.

I think the owner said, in another thread, that they ordered those in quantities of at least 2-300 for that price. I think we can swing that and keep the price around $1-150
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  #179  
Old 05-29-2015, 01:34 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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The windows client is DirectShow, and should playback 4k just fine, as long as proper filters are available.
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  #180  
Old 05-29-2015, 05:37 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edd.Dantes View Post
H.265 is exploding now and so is 4k. Not to mention that internet speeds are, ok... they are hit or miss (in the states) but should mostly increase. This is great for streaming and more things will go 4k or upscale nicely (maybe).
Streaming is moot, Open Source projects aren't going to be able to access internet streams (Netflix, Amazon, etc) due to DRM.

Quote:
I'm definitely not opposed to, say, an HD400 with all the bells and whistles but I only push an app of sorts because I can't trust the Sage team anymore. $225 for a 2010 box.... rage all you want.... That has me not trusting a few people here. As cheap as tech is now, and all the new Chinese companies, the NEW dedicated boxes should be the same price, or cheaper, than they were in 2010.
Who are you talking about? There is no "Sage team" to trust, the future of SageTV is in our hands. There won't be any new dedicated boxes because there's no SageTV LLC to buy them to sell.

You can dream of dedicated boxes all you want, but unless you're willing to start a kickstarter or whatever to get the funds to order a batch, and have the software skills and will to write the client software for it, it's not going to happen.

Going forward, the only hardware SageTV will run on is existing SageTV hardware and other people's "open" hardware.
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