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  #1  
Old 11-13-2018, 12:10 PM
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HDx00 and HEVC video

I am putting this out there again... Has anyone figured out a way to playback the newest video format, HEVC h.265 on our existing HD200/300 boxes?

I have bought a Mibox and Shield and personally they are still not as good as the existing clients. Mainly its the substandard remotes that make the WAF a no go. Buying a $100 remote seems like a waste, but I may eventually have to break down. The HD200's just work...

-Bill
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2018, 12:54 PM
phantomii phantomii is offline
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On the remote side of your comment, I use this remote with Several different boxes including the shield and it works pretty well. Just an fyi....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomii View Post
On the remote side of your comment, I use this remote with Several different boxes including the shield and it works pretty well. Just an fyi....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I thought the Shield needed Bluetooth to work? I know IR doesn't work with it. That remote doesn't say it has bluetooth? I have a fairly new Dec 2017 shield. Is the description just missing that and it really has BT? -Bill
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
I thought the Shield needed Bluetooth to work? I know IR doesn't work with it. That remote doesn't say it has bluetooth? I have a fairly new Dec 2017 shield. Is the description just missing that and it really has BT? -Bill
That remote basically emulates a wifi keyboard (it has a usb dongle).
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2018, 08:40 AM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
I am putting this out there again... Has anyone figured out a way to playback the newest video format, HEVC h.265 on our existing HD200/300 boxes?
This would be a pretty big code change.

Currently, I don't believe that SageTV transcodes anything for a LAN connected media extender. Also, SageTV doesn't currently even recognize HEVC encoded video. Finally ffmpeg would need to be updated to a version that supports decoding HEVC video.

When laid out like that it sounds simple but it would actually be a pretty big project.
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
I am putting this out there again... Has anyone figured out a way to playback the newest video format, HEVC h.265 on our existing HD200/300 boxes?
In short, it's not possible natively on the existing hardware.

In very simplistic terms, what could be done is find an evaluation board that uses the SMP8762 from Signa Designs which you can likely run Linux on it, then you need access to the miniclient source code (short way) and write a new HAL using the new sigma design software libraries (you need to sign a NDA for that) or because STV is open source re-implement the miniclient using the known protocol (very long way), alternatively get an existing set-top box capable of HEVC that runs Android and run the stuckless STV miniclient app (the current best possible option).

Cheers
Eddy
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by routerunner View Post
In short, it's not possible natively on the existing hardware.

In very simplistic terms, what could be done is find an evaluation board that uses the SMP8762 from Signa Designs which you can likely run Linux on it, then you need access to the miniclient source code (short way) and write a new HAL using the new sigma design software libraries (you need to sign a NDA for that) or because STV is open source re-implement the miniclient using the known protocol (very long way), alternatively get an existing set-top box capable of HEVC that runs Android and run the stuckless STV miniclient app (the current best possible option).

Cheers
Eddy
Hi Eddy you do know that as of July 2018 Sigma Designs RIP it was liquidates after a failed merger.
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:24 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
This would be a pretty big code change.

Currently, I don't believe that SageTV transcodes anything for a LAN connected media extender. Also, SageTV doesn't currently even recognize HEVC encoded video. Finally ffmpeg would need to be updated to a version that supports decoding HEVC video.

When laid out like that it sounds simple but it would actually be a pretty big project.
I agree that it isn't possible on existing HDX00 miniclients, at least not without transcoding.

But you say that SageTV doesn't currently even recognize HEVC encoded video - I though that some folks have had HEVC (or at lest 4K) playback working on SageTV running on PCs.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:30 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
I agree that it isn't possible on existing HDX00 miniclients, at least not without transcoding.

But you say that SageTV doesn't currently even recognize HEVC encoded video - I though that some folks have had HEVC (or at lest 4K) playback working on SageTV running on PCs.
Yes, devices that have native HEVC support will play those files without issue. SageTV itself does not recognize the "h265" HEVC fourcc code and doesn't display the correct codec.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:31 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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In other words with LAN connected miniclients like the HDx00's or an Android Miniclient SageTV just throws the file at the client and it will either play it or not.
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Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:40 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
Yes, devices that have native HEVC support will play those files without issue. SageTV itself does not recognize the "h265" HEVC fourcc code and doesn't display the correct codec.
Does that mean that the Shield and other ATV devices will play back these files? Or just PC based "full" clients?
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:44 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Does that mean that the Shield and other ATV devices will play back these files? Or just PC based "full" clients?
Either one. I've actually tried playback on a full client. As long as you have a compatible codec playback works.
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2018, 03:15 PM
poto poto is offline
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
I am putting this out there again... Has anyone figured out a way to playback the newest video format, HEVC h.265 on our existing HD200/300 boxes?

I have bought a Mibox and Shield and personally they are still not as good as the existing clients. Mainly its the substandard remotes that make the WAF a no go. Buying a $100 remote seems like a waste, but I may eventually have to break down. The HD200's just work...

-Bill
There have been a couple of previous discussions:

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65260
https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64595

Reading between the lines, it sounds possible, but not a priority for the remaining developers.

The way forward seems to be mainly Unraid-hosted docker v9.xxx served to linux mini-client. As server-side transcoding seems to be a pretty big project, I can understand reluctance to invest effort that only benefits legacy clients (although I wonder if that would allow wider range of newer clients?).

Either way, I also would appreciate that ability!
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2018, 03:28 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Originally Posted by poto View Post
There have been a couple of previous discussions:

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65260
https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64595

Reading between the lines, it sounds possible, but not a priority for the remaining developers.

The way forward seems to be mainly Unraid-hosted docker v9.xxx served to linux mini-client. As server-side transcoding seems to be a pretty big project, I can understand reluctance to invest effort that only benefits legacy clients (although I wonder if that would allow wider range of newer clients?).

Either way, I also would appreciate that ability!
For SageTV to survive in any meaningful way it's going to have to eventually be modernized. To be blunt, otherwise it's going to be a dead end.
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Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2018, 03:29 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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The other thing that we need is encoders that can encode 4K TV from cable/satellite boxes. This should be doable as there are 4K versions of the BM1000 type encoders that are available. There are types that do H.264 2160p and others that do H.265 2160p. But I don't think anyone has tried them yet.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2018, 03:37 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
For SageTV to survive in any meaningful way it's going to have to eventually be modernized. To be blunt, otherwise it's going to be a dead end.
What parts need to be modernized? Assuming that these clients can playback 4K/2160p/HEVC files then that part is done.

Do you mean the UI?
Ability to record 4K/2160p?
Ability to play streaming content like Netflix, Amazon, etc?
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2018, 03:57 PM
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Hi Eddy you do know that as of July 2018 Sigma Designs RIP it was liquidates after a failed merger.
Brilliant! They might throw away stuff for free . No, I didn't know about it.

Two years ago I was on a contract at Ericsson TV and I was developing software models for their new HEVC hardware encoder/decoder chip and after about 8 months a new CEO came on board and the first thing he did was to can the project, short story, all hardware engineers were made redundant as well as all software contractors including myself, he's main excuse was that nowadays everything can be done on software as computers are so powerful that dedicated hardware encoder/decoder are no longer required, such an a.....e

Cheers
Eddy
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by routerunner View Post
Two years ago I was on a contract at Ericsson TV and I was developing software models for their new HEVC hardware encoder/decoder chip and after about 8 months a new CEO came on board and the first thing he did was to can the project, short story, all hardware engineers were made redundant as well as all software contractors including myself, he's main excuse was that nowadays everything can be done on software as computers are so powerful that dedicated hardware encoder/decoder are no longer required, such an a.....e
That is pretty short-sighted. I have to think that every mobile phone on the market has specialized hardware for encoding/decoding, don't they?
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2018, 04:08 PM
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That is pretty short-sighted. I have to think that every mobile phone on the market has specialized hardware for encoding/decoding, don't they?
That's right for decoding, encoding is very CPU intensive, but you must bear in mind that the project I was working on was on the production side not on the consumer side. Basically on video broadcast grade machines able to encode real-time multiple AV streams and multiplex for distribution to home users, in very short terms.

Eddy
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Last edited by routerunner; 11-14-2018 at 04:12 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2018, 04:13 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
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Originally Posted by wayner View Post
What parts need to be modernized? Assuming that these clients can playback 4K/2160p/HEVC files then that part is done.

Do you mean the UI?
Ability to record 4K/2160p?
Ability to play streaming content like Netflix, Amazon, etc?
Relating to this thread the ability to recognize and transcode HEVC video to incompatible devices. Proabably also being able to recognize 2K or 4K resolutions.

Another primary goal should be to change Placeshifter transcoding from MPEG4 (Part 2) to H.264 (MPEG4 Part 10) video and support transcoding up to 1080p. At the time MPEG4 was chosen because CPU's weren't as powerful and was limited to SD or lower resolutions. None of that makes sense now, it needs modernization.

Aside from that, the in-memory database has served SageTV well so far. However, I could argue that because it is in-memory it can't scale well. You can throw as much memory at it as you can by moving to 64-bit but that will only get you so far. Another advancement since SageTV was originally conceived has been in databases. Database latency isn't nearly the problem it once was.
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