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Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 04-19-2005, 10:22 AM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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Arrow HDTV Network Encoder v0.9.0 07-08-05 - HD Support for Sage!

This is version 0.9.0 Beta of HDNE (HD Network Encoder). It currently supports BDA driver based HD Tuner cards.

Confirmed compatible cards:
-ATI HD Wonder
-Avermedia A180
-DVICO's Fusion cards (OTA only; no QAM support as of right now)


So in summary - you can record & watch live HDTV from SageTV!!! - that is with HD Tuner card hardware

CAUTION!!! - this is a work in progress - I don't want to be responsible if you screw anything up!!!!!!

Big thanx to:
- Anders Nolberger (Without Anders building UNE and getting the protocol down for the network encoders, I would have had taken 3 times as long.)
- Stanger89 for his testing and feedback
- Sage for allowing this as an add-on to their very cool product
- and everyone else who provided testing and feedback


Now for the good stuff -->

HDNE requires the following for version 0.9.0:
- .NET Framework 1.1
- BDA tunable drivers
- A compatible dump filter (Sage's included dump filter works fine and is the default; Sigma's DumpPS works also, but with some PS stream selection issues)

HDNE requires the following for version 0.8.0:
- .NET Framework 1.1
- BDA tunable drivers
- Cyberlink's latest PowerVCR II Mux & dump filters
- NDVD TS Info Parser (can get from NDVD demo install)

Version 0.9.0 Info
- The output filter from the capture filter is now configurable via the ServiceLocator.XML file; just change the DumpCLSID option to the CLSID of the filter you want to use; look at the ServiceLocator.XML file in the zip file for an example of where and how to add that option.
- Records entire TS stream if using a simple dump filter (i.e. the default) for your output or you can use Sigma's DumpPS filter to write out PS streams
- Removed Cyberlink/NVidia dependencies
- Removed any leading white space in file paths - caused problems creating files
- C# code clean up
- C++ code clean up - less crashing

Version 0.8.0 Info
- Fixed Live TV switching (silly error!!!!)
- Fixed performance issue from too many GET_FILE_SIZE messages
- Add better error/issue handling (i.e. when when Sage shutsdown without warning HDNE knows to stop recording)

Version 0.7.0 Info
- Use of NVidia's TS Info Parser filter for handling TS stream PIDs

Version 0.6.0 Info
- Initial Release

Directions:

- After making sure you have all of the requirements above, stop/shutdown any software that came with your HD Capture hardware. The vendors software may have already using the BDA drivers...

- Install the zip file into a c:\HDNE

- Find the file "NetworkEncoder Entry.txt" and copy its contents into the Sage.Properties file (If you not sure how to do this search the forum - actually there is info on how to do this in the UNE thread)

- Find the file "ServiceLocator.xml". Open it up with Notepad. Find the REF section named "HDNE.BDACapture" Section - it should have settings that look like:

Code:
		<Option Name="32.Physical" Value="31"/>
		<Option Name="32.Major" Value="32"/>
		<Option Name="32.Minor" Value="1"/>
This is the piece to MAP SD channel listings to HD channel info. Frey hasn't implemented the HD stuff completely (thats at least how I understand it). So you have to tell the HDNE which SD channel is equivelant to which HD channel. Sorry for the inconvenience just working with what Sage has

My example is FOX in Chicago.
Its SD broadcast is on channel 32.
Its HD physical channel is 31.
Its HD Major channel is 32
Its HD Minor channel is 1

So the Options layout is:
<Option Name="[SD channel].[HD Channel part type]" Value="[HD Channel part value]"/>

So I would suggest just copying the example Options,pasted them directly below, and make your relative changes. i.e. -

Code:
		<Option Name="32.Physical" Value="31"/>
		<Option Name="32.Major" Value="32"/>
		<Option Name="32.Minor" Value="1"/>
		<Option Name="5.Physical" Value="29"/>
		<Option Name="5.Major" Value="5"/>
		<Option Name="5.Minor" Value="1"/>
The new entry is
Its SD broadcast is on channel 5.
Its HD physical channel is 29.
Its HD Major channel is 5
Its HD Minor channel is 1

- While logged in with an open desktop, run HDNE.exe. The application can not run as a service yet... When its solid I will get to it.

- You will see a "Start" and "Stop" Button, Click the Start button - the app will configure itself and build the BDA graph - you should see a list of growing messages in the output window.

- Stop and Restart the Sage Service. (Also shut down the Sage UI first if it was running)

- Open up Sage and goto Setup Wizard and the "HDNE Network Encoder". i.e. - I set mine up with Chicago local broadcast channels. DON'T Add the HD channels - just the Standard channels (specifically the ones mapped in the ServiceLocator.xml file)

- that should be it... (If have missed steps please let me know!!!)


Known Issues:
- Fusion QAM support is still being explored...

Logical Framework Overview (For those of you that care how it works):

Its made up of 4 parts... (some of this is programmer-speak if anyone wants to extend it)

HDNE Server (HDNE.exe) - For starting everything and talking to Sage via the network

HDNE IPlugin (HDNE.IPlugin.dll) - The interface library for any HDNE capture plugins i.e. the included BDA or firewire (if someone wants build that); its just the agreed upon contract between the Server and any Plugin

HDNE BDACapture (HDNE.BDACapture.dll) - The .NET "managed" wrapper for the "unmanaged" BDA capture (basically C# calls to C++ externs) that implements IPlugin

HDNECapture - (HDNECapture.dll - badly named write now - will change later) This is the C++/unmanaged DLL that builds the DS graph and tunes the card...

Enjoy!

Stealth

Check for the sequel at www.venturality.com in the next few months.
Attached Files
File Type: zip HDNE-0.8.0.zip (481.3 KB, 978 views)
File Type: zip HDNE-0.9.0.zip (215.8 KB, 1203 views)

Last edited by Stealth1971; 07-14-2006 at 07:47 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2005, 10:38 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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So you're telling me I have to buy a Aver A180 now?

Too bad buy.com is out, but I can't argue with $60 (I had a gift certificate)

I'll test it out when the card gets here.

Last edited by stanger89; 04-19-2005 at 10:44 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-19-2005, 10:54 AM
eruji eruji is offline
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That figures! ive been waiting to buy a HD card too.. and now im moving to the mountains in 2 weeks. No OTA there. I wish i could try this out....
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  #4  
Old 04-19-2005, 11:38 AM
GbrNole GbrNole is offline
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what remote requirements are required for this? ie. do i have to remap or create new control settings or does it work pretty seamlessly with sage?

ps. good job man!

Last edited by GbrNole; 04-19-2005 at 11:41 AM.
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2005, 01:21 PM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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All of the tuning is done through Sage

No extra remote control settings...
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  #6  
Old 04-19-2005, 01:31 PM
GbrNole GbrNole is offline
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sweet! i'm thinking that an a180 will be on order here very soon too

does it map easily to clients? (i assume it's pretty much the same setup as a stand alone system) i have just a stand alone sage system right now but i'm mostly done with completely remodelling the ground floor of my house and i ran new cat 5 wire to the back of all my tv locations so i'm toying with the idea of running a sage server with 4 tuners and 2 or 3 clients downstairs.
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  #7  
Old 04-19-2005, 03:44 PM
pcuoco pcuoco is offline
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Woo hoo! I've had an ATI HD-Blunder sitting on a shelf for three weeks! Now I've got some real motivation to install it!
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2005, 08:38 PM
ldavis ldavis is offline
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Thanks so much. I cannot wait to try this out. I have a couple of question through. Can this be used such that the HD hardware is on a machine other than the one running sage? If so what changes are required to that machine, such as how it and Sage know to use this as a network encoder. I may just be as simple a running the HDNE app on the remote machine, making the set mods to the xml file and then moding the sage.properties file(including changing "localhost" to the name or ip of the networked computer) on the sage PC. I just was not clear on that.
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2005, 08:06 AM
Beefcake550 Beefcake550 is offline
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QAM tuning?

Hi, I was wondering if there was any chance this piece of software is able to utilize the Fusion's QAM reception capabilities? I have no OTA, but the locals ae broadcast in clear QAM256. I know the physical channel and subchannel numbers.

I would also be willing to do any kind of testing for you if that is what's needed. Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2005, 09:28 AM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GbrNole
sweet! i'm thinking that an a180 will be on order here very soon too

does it map easily to clients? (i assume it's pretty much the same setup as a stand alone system) i have just a stand alone sage system right now but i'm mostly done with completely remodelling the ground floor of my house and i ran new cat 5 wire to the back of all my tv locations so i'm toying with the idea of running a sage server with 4 tuners and 2 or 3 clients downstairs.
I haven't tested this in a Client/Server setup yet. I would think if the Sage Server is forwarding all of content from its configured encoders (local or network) then it "should" work... Good thing you are using cat5/100Mbs? - most of the HD content is @ 19Mbs! So 4 concurrent HD streams would max out a 100Mb network (taking in consideration room for TCP overhead)
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2005, 09:46 AM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldavis
Thanks so much. I cannot wait to try this out. I have a couple of question through. Can this be used such that the HD hardware is on a machine other than the one running sage? If so what changes are required to that machine, such as how it and Sage know to use this as a network encoder. I may just be as simple a running the HDNE app on the remote machine, making the set mods to the xml file and then moding the sage.properties file(including changing "localhost" to the name or ip of the networked computer) on the sage PC. I just was not clear on that.
Hmmm - yes it can be configured that way - BUT Sage will have to use a network file share to read the generated files. Thats how the network encoder setup is working right now - HDNE and Sage share the same file. Sage tells HDNE what file to create. While HDNE is capturing the MPEG streams and writing to the video file, Sage is close behind reading the same file and playing it back.

I am not sure how much network latency/MS file sharing overhead will affect performance. So you would have to tell Sage that your media is stored @ X:\SomeFolder "X" being a mapped network drive.

Actually I think both the Sage machine and HDNE machine need to use an identical netork shares...

There might be a better way to do this - the guys using UNE for firewire capture probably have been through this. I havent had time to research it. Definitely checkout the UNE thread....

If this is not an issue then the only other change is the IP address of the network encoder in Sage.properties.

It might be easier to setup a Sage server and let it handle all of the forwarding.... thats my $.02

Last edited by Stealth1971; 04-20-2005 at 09:51 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2005, 09:56 AM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake550
Hi, I was wondering if there was any chance this piece of software is able to utilize the Fusion's QAM reception capabilities? I have no OTA, but the locals ae broadcast in clear QAM256. I know the physical channel and subchannel numbers.

I would also be willing to do any kind of testing for you if that is what's needed. Thanks.
I will have to look into that. I am not sure if its a BDA tuning change or a Fusion specific thing...
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2005, 09:59 AM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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Has anyone actually set HDNE up yet and tested it? It would be great to get some usage feedback.
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2005, 10:18 AM
Beefcake550 Beefcake550 is offline
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If there is anything I can d otohelp Stealth1971, just let me know.

-Brian
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2005, 10:32 AM
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chrisc16 chrisc16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth1971
Has anyone actually set HDNE up yet and tested it? It would be great to get some usage feedback.
I'm dying to try out HDNE, but as I only have an AccessDTV I'm missing the main hardware component. Once someone tries out an A180, I'll know whether I can get by with just that or if I need to spring for an HDTV Wonder.

-Chris
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2005, 10:34 AM
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salsbst salsbst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth1971
I will have to look into that. I am not sure if its a BDA tuning change or a Fusion specific thing...
Whoahh.. you mean that it doesn't already support QAM?
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2005, 11:31 AM
flashbacck flashbacck is offline
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I set it up last night and it worked on two channels (2-cbs, 7-abc) and it was possibly working on 4-nbc (I think I had signal strength issues).

On channels 2 and 7 it seemed to work pretty well. CPU usage was between 50-70% on the system in my sig.

I couldn't get it to work on 5-wb, 11-fox or 13-upn. 5 would give me a sage error that said audio could not be processed. And 11 and 13 would just give me a black screen. On those channels Sage would sometimes freeze. Eventually it would respond and I could get back to the main screen.

Edit: oh yeah... It worked with the intervideo and cyberlink video codecs. I think CPU usage was better with the cyberlink ones. The Sage decoders worked, but I don't think DxVA is used so CPU usage was high. When I tried the nvidia decoders it gave me a video could not be processed error. I did not try viewing 5-wb with different audio decoders to see if it fixed that problem (I'm using intervideo).
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Last edited by flashbacck; 04-20-2005 at 11:34 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2005, 11:44 AM
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Stealth1971 Stealth1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salsbst
Whoahh.. you mean that it doesn't already support QAM?
I am not saying it isn't supported - its not been tested. I only have the ATI card it only supports OTA. Any help in testing QAM would be cool.

BTW - I replied to you over on AVS
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2005, 11:56 AM
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salsbst salsbst is offline
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I'd love to help in any way I can -- but I don't own any BDA card, yet. I'm trying to figure out which of them will support QAM with your code before I purchase one .
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2005, 01:12 PM
thatdude90210 thatdude90210 is offline
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I have a Fusion 3T in my Sage server that I could try later tonight. Couple of questions first: do we get the Cyberlink PowerVCR II Mux & dump filter just by installing the PowervcrII demo? And the "BDA tunable driver" is just part of the fusion's XP driver right?
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