SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > General Discussion > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:49 AM
clip clip is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 36
Goodbye Ad-Supported Broadcast Television?

So I've been without CBS now for almost a week because our local affiliate thinks they should be able to charge our cable provider to broadcasting what they're broadcasting publicly.

So because I'm a cable subscriber, I have to pay a premium for CBS?

Isn't the affiliate already benefiting from all the ad-watching consumers? Where is this headed? Am I going to have to pay for all broadcast television now? What do you guys think?

WISH-TV's Side
http://www.wishtv.com/global/Story.asp?s=9116843

Brighthouse's Side
http://indiana.mybrighthouse.com/pro...ng_status.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:57 AM
mguebert mguebert is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 152
A similiar situation was occuring here in St. Louis with CBS, they wanted to charge charter communications, Charter told them to stuff it, so it was not available as a HD local. Luckily for me I was able to receive CBS OTA so it did not affect me too much, but for people further out than me it would suck big time.

I don't agree that network stations should be able to charge for rebroadcasting, that utlimately benefits them becuase of the wider audience their paid ads get.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-08-2008, 10:26 AM
vexhold's Avatar
vexhold vexhold is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hastings, MN
Posts: 353
Whatever is available free OTA is not a chargable service by the cable/satelite companies. There is a specifically placed line (geographically) where the cutoff of "legitimate OTA signal reception" can be aquired. Beyond that line is fair game forSat/Com companies to charge you. And a side note: There are 2 "Lines" - One for Analog and One for Digital. As they have different distances of clean reception.

This also brings up another point I have been making for some time now. Since analog broadcasts are being eliminated, and Digital is going to be the new standard. Sat/Com companies are going to get a little happier when they are able to charge more people for locals as the gap between Analog and Digital disapears.

Edit: At least that is the case in Minnesota
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:47 AM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,759
The same thing going on with the OP went on in Iowa a couple years ago. The Fox affiliate decided it wanted a piece of Comcast's subscribers fees.

At least in Iowa, and I thought this was nation-wide, was that, ordinarily, cable TV providers must carry broadcast stations when those stations offer it to cable TV providers for free. However, a broadcast station may demand that cable TV providers pay to carry the station. In this case, the cable TV provider is no longer required to carry the station.

vexhold-
Cable companies can charge you for only the broadcast channels in Minnesota. I paid for that for a couple years when I was going to school in Duluth (using an antenna wasn't an option).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-08-2008, 12:14 PM
lobosrul's Avatar
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 573
Same thing happened here for years. Comcast finally relented and agreed to pay Lin-TV for KRQE CBS Albuquerque a few months ago. I don't know what the fee is. And I get it OTA for free anyways.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-08-2008, 01:17 PM
vexhold's Avatar
vexhold vexhold is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hastings, MN
Posts: 353
You are correct, as of 1992, local affiliates do have the right to demand that Sat/Com companies pay for airing locals, or get their consent to air them free.. but, the Sat/Com companies also have the right to not air them at all (even if it is just temporary to scare them).

By the Sat/Com companies not airing locals, the revenue from ads that are aired on local channels drops almost 75%. Local affiliates have been trying this ever since Bill Clinton signed the law giving Satelite companies the ability to air locals to compete against cable. And in almost every instance, the local affiliate backs down. Since only 25% of people will be recieving the adds, sponsors of such adds preasure the local affiliates to back down or they will leave.

All about the money baby

On the bright side.... Most cable companies that drop the local stations fill that spot with something like HBO Family..lol.

As far as Duluth, I used to live over on Lakeside by Lester Park and worked up at Miller Hill Mall when I went to UMD.

Not sure when or where in Duluth you lived and where exactly those "lines" are there, but I do know that town is an oddball for local heritage and legallity. Theres a reason there is no Walmart, Target, or any other "non local companies" there. The city blocks them. The closest you can build to Duluth is in Hermantown.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-08-2008, 01:38 PM
lobosrul's Avatar
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexhold View Post
You are correct, as of 1992, local affiliates do have the right to demand that Sat/Com companies pay for airing locals, or get their consent to air them free.. but, the Sat/Com companies also have the right to not air them at all (even if it is just temporary to scare them).

By the Sat/Com companies not airing locals, the revenue from ads that are aired on local channels drops almost 75%. Local affiliates have been trying this ever since Bill Clinton signed the law giving Satelite companies the ability to air locals to compete against cable. And in almost every instance, the local affiliate backs down. Since only 25% of people will be recieving the adds, sponsors of such adds preasure the local affiliates to back down or they will leave.
But in my situation, and the OP's as well I think, we're talking about the HDTV signal only. The analog signal was still on cable, therefore their commercials were still being watched. Now as a larger % of the population has HDTV service theres more of a demand for them to get their HD signal on cable/sat systems. I would bet Comcast got the deal done for pretty cheap, probably no more than $.10 per HDTV package subscriber.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-08-2008, 04:23 PM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexhold View Post
You are correct, as of 1992, local affiliates do have the right to demand that Sat/Com companies pay for airing locals, or get their consent to air them free.. but, the Sat/Com companies also have the right to not air them at all (even if it is just temporary to scare them).
Actually, local network affiliates can invoke the FCC's must-carry provision. In that case, the cable company can't refuse to carry the affiliate (but the cable company doesn't have to pay, either). This rule doesn't apply to satellite companies.

Quote:
As far as Duluth, I used to live over on Lakeside by Lester Park and worked up at Miller Hill Mall when I went to UMD.
I lived on campus both years. Griggs Hall and Goldfine. Oh, the memories... I liked Duluth for the most part. I wasn't a huge fan of the school though.


lobosrul
Quote:
But in my situation, and the OP's as well I think, we're talking about the HDTV signal only. The analog signal was still on cable, therefore their commercials were still being watched. Now as a larger % of the population has HDTV service theres more of a demand for them to get their HD signal on cable/sat systems. I would bet Comcast got the deal done for pretty cheap, probably no more than $.10 per HDTV package subscriber.
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about both the analog and digital broadcast. And I doubt the affiliate is looking for fees per HD package subscriber. Cable companies don't have to carry HD network channels (at least, not yet), but when they do they're not allowed to encrypt them. Pretty much anyone with cable TV service should be able to pick up the HD network channels in clear QAM (if the cable company isn't breaking the rules). Sometimes you can pick up those channels if you only have internet service and no cable TV package.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-08-2008, 04:38 PM
Zippster's Avatar
Zippster Zippster is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 314
Same crap here in Buffalo NY. I prefer mine OTA though anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vexhold View Post
On the bright side.... Most cable companies that drop the local stations fill that spot with something like HBO Family..lol.
They filled ours with CBS College......not sure how that equates besides the CBS part.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-08-2008, 06:35 PM
robogeek robogeek is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 561
Our local FOX affiliate just pulled its content off of Time Warner Cable last week

http://Just-Say-No-To-LinTV.com
__________________
--Jason

Server Hardware: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R, Intel Q9550 CPU 3.2GHz, 11GB RAM, 1xHDHR, 1xHVR1600, 1xHVR2250
29TB Server Storage: 1TB SSD (OS), 1TB (data), 2x6TB+2x10TB (22TB FlexRaid storage pool), 2x2TB (recordings), 1x750GB (VMs).
Server Software: Win10 Pro x64 OS, SageTV 64bit v9.2.0.441, Java 1.8 u201, PlayOn, Comskip (Donator) v0.82.003, WampServer v2.5.
Clients: 3xHD300s, 2xHD100, 2xPlaceshifters
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-08-2008, 10:34 PM
stevech stevech is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,643
so when the local broadcasters use the ether as their medium, they did not dare to bill the FCC for use of the medium. Same is true in the move to different frequencies per the FCC mandate to vacate VHF/UHF.

Odd, then, that when the medium is cable/fiber, and this isn't FCC licensed, that things change?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-09-2008, 06:35 AM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 15,186
OTA, local broadcasters are delivering directly to their customers with their own equipment. The FCC doesn't do anything but assign them a slot to use.

Cable and Satellite are 3rd party companies who desire to use the local broadcaster's service to add value to their customers. It's not unreasonable for one company to want to charge another for a valueable service.

The thing is, in this case, it's of mutual benefit to have the locals carried on cable (and sat) and of mutual detriment to not. It's just unfortunate that these companies can't work out their agreement without affecting customers' service.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-09-2008, 08:12 AM
lobosrul's Avatar
lobosrul lobosrul is offline
Sage Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 573
I guess this is the analog and digital signal. In that case, this won't last long. Once LIN sees how much ad revenue they're losing, they'll give in.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:54 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Yukon, OK
Posts: 3,919
A couple years back when I'd first purchased my HDHR the parent company of our ABC affiliate here in Oklahoma City did the very same thing and Cox Cable dropped the KOCO HD feed for more than a year because they were demanding compensation. They finally came to an agreement and KOCO came back up on Cox.

To make matters worse for consumers KOCO must run their digital feed at a lower power level because they interfere with an analog station elsewhere, I think in Kansas. Their digital transmission only runs at 35KW. Once the other station's analog goes dark next year they'll be able to up their power and be able to reach more people.

Correction: The station that KOCO interferes with is in Lawton Oklahoma to the Southwest. They are also the only digital transmission going out on VHF.
__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3
Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver
Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD

Last edited by Taddeusz; 10-09-2008 at 02:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-09-2008, 10:12 PM
clip clip is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 36
I suppose its comforting to know that I'm not the only SageTV user to run into this. I was hoping to hear that these issues are resolved quickly, but I'm starting to doubt it based on some of the comments here.

Indy maybe somewhat unique because only the west half of the metro is on Brighthouse, Comcast has the east side. So instead of the ad-watching market being reduced by 75%, it's probably more like 38%.

If CBS had more compelling programming and the Home Owners Association wouldn't come after me, I'd hook up the HDHomeRun to an antenna. I don't know if it would work with more discrete rabbit ears.

lobosrul, I lived in ABQ 2 years ago. Now, I know why CBS-HD wasn't available. I thought it was because we were behind the times. Guess it was just the legal stuff.

I guess it's time to remap my video sources so that I can enjoy my "free preview" of Starz Kids and Family.

Thanks for all the insights.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:08 AM
reggie14 reggie14 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip View Post
If CBS had more compelling programming and the Home Owners Association wouldn't come after me, I'd hook up the HDHomeRun to an antenna. I don't know if it would work with more discrete rabbit ears.
Check out: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

The HOA can't stop you from putting up an antenna, although they can set limited restrictions on where you can put it, as long as those restrictions don't prevent you from getting a good signal.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:26 AM
pjpjpjpj pjpjpjpj is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip View Post
If CBS had more compelling programming...
Heh - between the Monday night sitcoms, Saturday college football and basketball, and Sunday NFL, I think I watch CBS more than any other channel.

But, to each their own.
__________________
Server: AMD Athlon II x4 635 2.9GHz, 4 Gb RAM, Win 8.1 x64, Java 8, Gigabit network
Drives: 1 TB and 500 GB internals for TV, 500GB & 2TB USB drives for DVD rips and such.
Software: SageTV v9, stock STV with ADM.
Tuners: 4 tuners via (2) HDHomeruns (100% OTA, DIY antennas in the attic).
Clients: (2) HD300, (3) HD200, (1) HD100. Latest firmware all the way around
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:58 AM
Ryokurin's Avatar
Ryokurin Ryokurin is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 455
Send a message via ICQ to Ryokurin Send a message via AIM to Ryokurin Send a message via Yahoo to Ryokurin
The only reason that so many stations are making a big deal about it now is because of the expense it was to go digital. Its the same reasons why a ton of stations that used to be family owned went corporate chain in the mid to late 90s as they saw the expense.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:14 AM
clip clip is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post
Check out: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

The HOA can't stop you from putting up an antenna, although they can set limited restrictions on where you can put it, as long as those restrictions don't prevent you from getting a good signal.
Very interesting, thanks. Now I just need an FCC ruling on the Wife Acceptance Factor.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:43 AM
TallMomof2's Avatar
TallMomof2 TallMomof2 is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 258
If your HOA is like mine then you'll be allowed to put your antenna in the attic. Antenna doesn't work for me because I have a major airport between me and the TV stations. I haven't tried since the advent of digital/HD but when it was analog OTA was unwatchable.
__________________
Server: Windows 8x64, ASUS P8 H67-M Pro Micro ATX, Core i5, 8 RAM, 14TB running latest Sage

Clients: HD200, HD300, Win7 Desktop

Capture Devices: Hauppauge Colossus & 1 HDHR, TV Service: Verizon FIOS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brighthouse, broadcast, cable, subscription


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Hauppauge hvr-1250 Analog Capture Supported? pianoman99 Hardware Support 3 11-24-2008 09:01 PM
Broadcast EPG data overriding xmltv source Madz SageTV EPG Service 3 02-08-2008 06:59 PM
Digital OTA Broadcast Sub-Channels Humanzee SageTV EPG Service 42 01-12-2007 11:50 AM
The Broadcast flag is back Nightrader_ General Discussion 3 06-24-2006 01:16 AM
Feb 17 2009 - Bye bye analog broadcast tv korben_dallas General Discussion 13 02-10-2006 07:55 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.