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  #1  
Old 06-30-2016, 06:57 PM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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Linux Bash in Windows 10

Will 64 bit Version for SageTV be able to run under bash?

Linux Bash in Windows 10
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2016, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyplayer View Post
Will 64 bit Version for SageTV be able to run under bash?

Linux Bash in Windows 10
I'll be honest, this the most exciting feature that I've seen in Window in years.... and to answer you question, yeah, I think that you could run sagetv in the bash shell. My understanding is that it's a variant of ubuntu so you'd need to install java and few other libraries, but it should work.

All that being said, I did read somewhere that while you can use bash shell in Windows 10, Windows deliberately does not forward any ports to the local OS.... That means even if you did run SageTV there... there'd be no way to access it. I got less excited about the windows 10 update after reading this. Maybe someone could confirm this?
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2016, 05:30 AM
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This could be interesting. I'll see if I can play around with this today.

The possible restrictions on Bash are really funny to me given that the shell is probably more secure than its host.
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Last edited by EnterNoEscape; 07-01-2016 at 05:32 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2016, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
The possible restrictions on Bash are really funny to me given that the shell is probably more secure than its host.
not really
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)

Of course you can just run 64bit Sage in a Linux VM on your windows machine, it's pretty painless to set up.
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2016, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nycjoe View Post
not really
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)

Of course you can just run 64bit Sage in a Linux VM on your windows machine, it's pretty painless to set up.
This is a list of bugs that were found in 2014 and then fixed within days... I think that just re-inforces how much more secure the shell really is
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2016, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
This is a list of bugs that were found in 2014 and then fixed within days... I think that just re-inforces how much more secure the shell really is
That actually makes me wonder how fastidious Microsoft will be with bash related security updates.
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2016, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
That actually makes me wonder how fastidious Microsoft will be with bash related security updates.
My understanding is that the MS Bash is still ubuntu (or provided by ubuntu)... so I would think it might be quick... If you run apt-get does it do to ubuntu or some MS site? (I'm assuming you can run apt-get)
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Old 07-08-2016, 09:11 AM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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I finally got it installed on one of my Windows 10 machines. You're right, I was able to update it with apt-get. It looks like it's based on Ubuntu 14.04. The kernel says it's 3.4.0+ and the shell is 64-bit. It's a little disconnected from the OS in that you create an account just to use the shell. C: is under /mnt/c. New folders created from the shell are created with full permissions and owned by the currently logged on user (not the account created just for bash).

sudo is functional. I am able to use apt-get. I installed git and it works. I installed openjdk-7-jdk and build-essential. I was able to compile an use the network functionality in ccextractor. I can't use gradle because for some reason it just hangs right after setting file permissions. I was able to install OpenDCT from a copy on Bintray. It crashes with JSW saying that the JVM isn't responding. I also installed SageTV. It would start, but then just hangs consuming two CPU cores on Object Database is initializing... As soon as the shell window is closed, all processes started by the shell immediately terminate.

The network problem appears to be that some things in SO_SNDBUF and SO_RECVBUF are not implemented. The hostname can't be resolved either; I'm not sure if it's related. It does not appear that Microsoft deliberately disabled networking so much as they didn't fully implement all of the hooks needed by some executables.

Edit: apt-get does pull from the Ubuntu repositories. I didn't notice anything special when I did sudo apt-get update. All of the displayed URL's are standard repositories.
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Last edited by EnterNoEscape; 07-08-2016 at 09:14 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2017, 05:59 PM
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I heard they fixed the network stack in 1703, so I thought I'd give this another try. I installed Bash on a test box, Java 8, then SageTV. SageTV installed without issue and actually ran. I was able to use one of my CableCARD tuners via the media server.

There are only a few issues I've seen so far. The first one is when you close the Bash console everything that was running is cleaned up meaning SageTV stops running. Someone might have a shim-like workaround to make something like this a real Windows service, so that might not really be a big problem.

The second issue is more obvious. You're only going to be interfacing with network encoders and network based capture devices. Since WSL is on the same network adapter as the Windows installation, it would make setting up a Windows installation of SageTV as a network encoder a little more work because you would need to ensure it's not trying to use the same ports.

The third issue is more of a concern. Microsoft is providing this primarily for developers. In most of the reviews I've read there's always that nagging concern that you might deal with issues that are very specific to the fact that you are running WSL and the issue wouldn't happen on a normal Linux installation.
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  #10  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
I heard they fixed the network stack in 1703, so I thought I'd give this another try. I installed Bash on a test box, Java 8, then SageTV. SageTV installed without issue and actually ran. I was able to use one of my CableCARD tuners via the media server.

There are only a few issues I've seen so far. The first one is when you close the Bash console everything that was running is cleaned up meaning SageTV stops running. Someone might have a shim-like workaround to make something like this a real Windows service, so that might not really be a big problem.

The second issue is more obvious. You're only going to be interfacing with network encoders and network based capture devices. Since WSL is on the same network adapter as the Windows installation, it would make setting up a Windows installation of SageTV as a network encoder a little more work because you would need to ensure it's not trying to use the same ports.

The third issue is more of a concern. Microsoft is providing this primarily for developers. In most of the reviews I've read there's always that nagging concern that you might deal with issues that are very specific to the fact that you are running WSL and the issue wouldn't happen on a normal Linux installation.
It's funny I just setup a Win10 VM today, and I opened the bash shell, and I was thinking how great it is that even on windows I can now feel at home I wondered if/how sagetv would run there. Glad you were able to test it out.
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  #11  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:50 PM
wayner wayner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
I heard they fixed the network stack in 1703, so I thought I'd give this another try.
Good to know - I have upgraded one of my Win10 PCs and you can finally use ping in the bash prompt.
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  #12  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by stuckless View Post
It's funny I just setup a Win10 VM today, and I opened the bash shell, and I was thinking how great it is that even on windows I can now feel at home I wondered if/how sagetv would run there.
Do you mean run SageTV for Linux in Linux Bash on a Win10VM hosted on Linux?
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  #13  
Old 05-24-2017, 07:00 PM
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By the way - you can still upgrade to Windows 10 for free at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/acce...ndows10upgrade

This is for users who use "assistive technologies" like magnifier, narrator, etc. Under the FAQ it says: "We are not restricting the upgrade offer to specific assistive technologies. If you use assistive technology on Windows, you are eligible for the upgrade offer."

So open up magnifier on your Win7/8/8.1 machine and you are an assistive technologies user.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
Do you mean run SageTV for Linux in Linux Bash on a Win10VM hosted on Linux?
No. From time to time I need windows, mainly to troubleshoot issues (IE issues -- which is why I setup a Win10 vm -- I have an IE11 'screen flicker' issue that only only happen on Win8/10) for work related stuff. So just having to use windows is sometimes painful, and many times, there are things that I "know" I could do from a command prompt but the windows cmd shell sucks ( and the power shell.. not sure how to describe that.. but sucks less).

I personally would never run SageTV, on windows, this way... but, I was curious if sagetv ran at all.

For work, we get the option of Linux, Mac, or Windows machines (and I choose Linux). And given the other 2 options, I'd go with Mac, but only because it has a unix shell. Now that Windows 10 has bash, I'd likely go with Windows 10 over a Mac. For me it's more about being productive, and having access to a rich command shell makes me more productive.
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2017, 12:56 PM
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It appears that MS now supports OpenSuse and Fedora in addition to Ubuntu on WSL. And then there is this: Github - Windows Subsystem for Linux Distribution Switcher

Quote:
The purpose of this project is to let you easily download and install new Linux distributions under Windows Subsystem for Linux and seamlessly switch between them.

The rootfs archives are currently downloaded from Docker Hub's official images' repositories ("source") or published image layers ("prebuilt").
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:04 PM
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I saw that too, but you can expect that most people using this for a build environment is probably going to be using Ubuntu because it's the default and I believe it's the most popular out of those choices. I've been thinking about if there's anything of value here for building some of the SageTV components for Windows that require Mingw.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:23 PM
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I'm sort of excited by this, but I'm really super torn and have been for a while, not sure what to do. . . I really want to switch my setup over to Linux to have a 64bit JVM, b/c when I run more than 2 extenders things start to become bad news. . .

But that said, I'm using HD-PVRs exclusively (old ones, not 2's), and I'm using serial tuning (which doesn't appear to exist in Linux), so I'm super torn. I suppose I could try to solve the serial tuning problem by using HTTP tuning (if that exists for Linux not sure). . .

And now i have to make a choice so I can keep my setup running since guide data is dying (but i'm already paying for the Schedules Direct stuff so I'm ready for that part). . .
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:02 PM
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I wouldn't say serial tuning doesn't exist in Linux, you'd just have to come up with a script that worked, and use gentuner to trigger the script, and make sure that the serial ports were properly exposed in the kernel you are using. MythTV seems to support serial tuning just fine, there's some info on it here (though I haven't read it yet). https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Controll..._USB_or_Serial
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:10 PM
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You should be able to pass through the appropriate serial ports to a docker container on unraid by adding --device=/dev/ttyS0, or whatever port is being used, and then use the scripts with gentuner to control the boxes.
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsean View Post
I'm sort of excited by this, but I'm really super torn and have been for a while, not sure what to do. . . I really want to switch my setup over to Linux to have a 64bit JVM, b/c when I run more than 2 extenders things start to become bad news. . .

But that said, I'm using HD-PVRs exclusively (old ones, not 2's), and I'm using serial tuning (which doesn't appear to exist in Linux), so I'm super torn. I suppose I could try to solve the serial tuning problem by using HTTP tuning (if that exists for Linux not sure). . .

And now i have to make a choice so I can keep my setup running since guide data is dying (but i'm already paying for the Schedules Direct stuff so I'm ready for that part). . .
Have you tried the very latest version of SageTV? There were some changes that should help you out with multiple miniclients, but you need to be running Java 8.
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Capture: 1x Ceton InfiniTV 4 (ClearQAM), 2x Ceton InfiniTV 6, 1x BM1000-HDMI, 1x BM3500-HDMI.

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