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  #1  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:34 PM
DaveS DaveS is offline
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Sync System Clock to Sage Server question

I switched over to the latest version of v9 a about a month or so ago. I've noticed that the start and end times on my recordings are drifting off. For example, the same afternoon show on ABC used to start at exactly 5 seconds after the top of the hour was at 10 seconds last week and 12 seconds this week. It could be the station is not starting the show at exactly the same time, but I'm thinking maybe my server's clock is drifting.

Question-since the Sage EPG guide is no more, and I have the option set to "Sync System Clock with SageTV Server", does that option actually do anything now that I'm on Schedules Direct?
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  #2  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:36 PM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Looks like it does. This is in the SD EPG ripper:

Code:
if (Sage.DBG) System.out.println("SDEPG Set the system clock to be " + Sage.df(sysTime));
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  #3  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:26 PM
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matt91 matt91 is offline
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I don't know how good a job the sage server does at keeping time, but if you are running your own ubuntu server, you might as well install the ntp client on it. it'll pretty much do it's thing without any intervention.

https://www.digitalocean.com/communi...n-ubuntu-16-04
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2017, 05:14 AM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt91 View Post
I don't know how good a job the sage server does at keeping time, but if you are running your own ubuntu server, you might as well install the ntp client on it. it'll pretty much do it's thing without any intervention.

https://www.digitalocean.com/communi...n-ubuntu-16-04
I fully support using NTP instead of syncing with a guide data server. This is not a task SageTV should be doing.
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2017, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
I fully support using NTP instead of syncing with a guide data server. This is not a task SageTV should be doing.
Do you know if Sage is still even able to sync now that the Sage EPG is gone?
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:49 AM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt91 View Post
Do you know if Sage is still even able to sync now that the Sage EPG is gone?
The sync is done with Schedules Direct server time now to be consistent with the old EPG. I would be ok with getting rid of that unless someone has a compelling reason to keep it.
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  #7  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:16 AM
Shaw Shaw is offline
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But if Schedules Direct is doing it... where in the sagetv settings do we let it sync from them, instead of sage's now-no-longer servers as that setting is pointing too? If this sync is no longer working from sage servers... that Menu Setting no longer works right?

Where is the new setting? Is it in config?

Sloppy side question: Would on a windows machine, the windows timeserver be adequate? I mean, if broadcast stations are supposed to keep with the universal time sync... wouldnt windows timeservers be doing the exact same?
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  #8  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:25 AM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw View Post
But if Schedules Direct is doing it... where in the sagetv settings do we let it sync from them, instead of sage's now-no-longer servers as that setting is pointing too? If this sync is no longer working from sage servers... that Menu Setting no longer works right?

Where is the new setting? Is it in config?

Sloppy side question: Would on a windows machine, the windows timeserver be adequate? I mean, if broadcast stations are supposed to keep with the universal time sync... wouldnt windows timeservers be doing the exact same?
I think it's the same setting. It's just named a little to specific. It should just say "sync system clock with EPG server."
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:30 AM
Shaw Shaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnjj View Post
I think it's the same setting. It's just named a little to specific. It should just say "sync system clock with EPG server."
Ah. That would make sense... I looked at it to literally
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:31 AM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
The sync is done with Schedules Direct server time now to be consistent with the old EPG. I would be ok with getting rid of that unless someone has a compelling reason to keep it.
Don't get rid of it unless there's another built-in option. The only reason my server needs an accurate clock is because of Sage so it makes sense for me to have Sage do it. If not from the EPG server, then we should build NTP support in.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:35 AM
DaveS DaveS is offline
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I'm not sure, but I think the Windows time server only syncs during boot up? Is the same true with Ubuntu?

When I used Windows I used a program called Nettime (I think) that allowed me to sync my computer to atomic clocks at specified intervals (hourly, daily, etc.) It was very helpful. I know there are a couple of programs for Linux (thank you matt91 for pointing one out) that I hope have the same options?
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:59 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
I'm not sure, but I think the Windows time server only syncs during boot up? Is the same true with Ubuntu?

When I used Windows I used a program called Nettime (I think) that allowed me to sync my computer to atomic clocks at specified intervals (hourly, daily, etc.) It was very helpful. I know there are a couple of programs for Linux (thank you matt91 for pointing one out) that I hope have the same options?
windows will sync with 'Internet Time' on an interval.. I think it's every couple days. You can look in your clock settings and it will state when it was last synced.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:20 AM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnjj View Post
I think it's the same setting. It's just named a little to specific. It should just say "sync system clock with EPG server."
Correct. The Schedules Direct time sync is enabled/disabled by the same setting.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:32 AM
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EnterNoEscape EnterNoEscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnjj View Post
Don't get rid of it unless there's another built-in option. The only reason my server needs an accurate clock is because of Sage so it makes sense for me to have Sage do it. If not from the EPG server, then we should build NTP support in.
What we have right now is kind of a poor man's NTP that is mostly dependent on you having a reasonably fast internet connection or there might be a bit of skew when the time is set. There are dedicated programs out there that would get the job done much more accurately without SageTV needing to be involved. It's no effort to leave it in; I just don't feel like we are providing a real benefit since what we do have isn't very good.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2017, 11:30 AM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape View Post
What we have right now is kind of a poor man's NTP that is mostly dependent on you having a reasonably fast internet connection or there might be a bit of skew when the time is set. There are dedicated programs out there that would get the job done much more accurately without SageTV needing to be involved. It's no effort to leave it in; I just don't feel like we are providing a real benefit since what we do have isn't very good.
Can we find an open source NTP client to roll into the code base? I'm just trying to minimize what's needed to get a proper setup going for new users on Windows. On the Linux side, I imagine the install scripts can setup a ready-to-go NTP client automatically if desired.

Poor man's NTP has served me well for 8 years, assuming SD's time and latency is as good as Sage EPG was. When minutes count for TV scheduling, seconds are good enough for me.
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Old 07-20-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnjj View Post
Can we find an open source NTP client to roll into the code base? I'm just trying to minimize what's needed to get a proper setup going for new users on Windows. On the Linux side, I imagine the install scripts can setup a ready-to-go NTP client automatically if desired.

Poor man's NTP has served me well for 8 years, assuming SD's time and latency is as good as Sage EPG was. When minutes count for TV scheduling, seconds are good enough for me.
Windows has an NTP client installed (and I believe enabled) by default.
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2017, 03:18 PM
texneus texneus is offline
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In the interest of KISS, and knowing time devoted to upkeep of ancillary functions already handled by the OS or a purpose built aplication steals time from development of SageTV proper, I also vote to remove this function (or keep it until it breaks, then remove it).

I can't speak for Unraid, but every NAS I've used could sink with NTP. Having the correct time on a server is pretty critical. Linux/Unix can certainly be made to do so if a distro doesn't out of the box. Windows since at least XP does it unless you have specifically disabled it. Personally I've kept it disabled since day 1 of SageTV for this reason (it serves no purpose). I can also say from experience WMC does not provide this, it relies on the OS too.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2017, 05:05 PM
wnjj wnjj is offline
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
Windows has an NTP client installed (and I believe enabled) by default.
That's good to know. It begs the question then, why on earth was the "sync to Sage server" option ever built? If it's truly unnecessary (and automatic), then I vote to get rid of it to simplify the experience.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:17 PM
Denali Denali is offline
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I use a program called Atomic TimeSync
http://www.analogx.com/contents/down...s/Freeware.htm
It provides the ability to offset the time either + or - to compensate for satellite delay which can several seconds. I currently use an offset -8 seconds.
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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I would vote to leave it in (it's easy to disable if a particular user doesn't want to use it). Even if only a few people use it, why go through the effort to remove an unobtrusive feature that seems to work?

I've had a lot of PCs, but I don't think I've ever seen one where the Windows built in time server function seemed to work - always get an error when clicking the button to do a manual sync. Gave up trying to figure out why years ago.
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