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  #1  
Old 05-20-2010, 09:41 AM
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SageTV & HD Audio

Right now is anyone currently bitstreaming HD Audio from SageTV (either using the SageTV internal player or launching a 3rd party player)?

As some background, I currently use W7MC + MediaBrowser. With MediaBrowser I have it configured so that when my mkvs and m2ts Blu Ray rips play MPC HC is launched to play them. The reason for this is because MPC HC is the most stable/consistent way to get bitstreaming of HD audio. When I select a movie from Media Browser MPC is launched. I have complete control of MPC from my universal remote. When I exit out of MPC it goes right back into MediaBrowser, so the integration is fairly seamless.

You can see my guide here on how I set up bitstreaming and my guide here on how I set up MPC to launch from Media Browser. So I guess my questions are:
  1. Is anyone bitstreaming HD audio from the SageTV Internal Player, and if so how (i.e. the FFDShow Audio Decoder will need to be used and possibly some other MPC filters such as MatroskaSplitter.ax, Gabest Splitter, etc...)?
  2. Is anyone using MPC HC as a 3rd party player from SageTV, and if so how well does it integrate?

With SageTV 7 on the horizon as well as SMM I would consider moving back to SageTV from WMC but the ability to bitstream HD audio from either the internal SageTV player (possibly V7 player is handled differently then V6?) or from MPC with seamless integration is a must.

So what do you guys think, is it being done, can it be done?
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
  1. Is anyone bitstreaming HD audio from the SageTV Internal Player, and if so how (i.e. the FFDShow Audio Decoder will need to be used and possibly some other MPC filters such as MatroskaSplitter.ax, Gabest Splitter, etc...)?
Ffdshow works for bit streaming HD audio in Sage V6 and V7. V7 will handle MKV natively, but you can disable the feature and use Haali or the MPC-HC splitter (M2TS is natively supported in Sage and AFAIK cannot be disabled).

If native support is disabled Haali is the preferred option for MKV mostly because the MPC-HC splitter presents all of the audio tracks (although I have a custom build of the MPC-HC splitter that only presents one track). If you opt to use non-native MKV support, audio stream selection will not work (not a huge issue if the MKV is muxed with the correct forced/default audio switches).

V7 adds a feature that allows plugins to run as part of the graph creation process. I will be releasing two plugins shortly that allow for refresh rate changing (based on a user provided fps->rate map) and filter insertion/blocking based on container and media type (e.g. use AC3Filter for AC3 in mpg/ts and ffdshow for AC3 in m2ts/mkv).
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
Ffdshow works for bit streaming HD audio in Sage V6 and V7. V7 will handle MKV natively, but you can disable the feature and use Haali or the MPC-HC splitter (M2TS is natively supported in Sage and AFAIK cannot be disabled).

If native support is disabled Haali is the preferred option for MKV mostly because the MPC-HC splitter presents all of the audio tracks (although I have a custom build of the MPC-HC splitter that only presents one track). If you opt to use non-native MKV support, audio stream selection will not work (not a huge issue if the MKV is muxed with the correct forced/default audio switches).

V7 adds a feature that allows plugins to run as part of the graph creation process. I will be releasing two plugins shortly that allow for refresh rate changing (based on a user provided fps->rate map) and filter insertion/blocking based on container and media type (e.g. use AC3Filter for AC3 in mpg/ts and ffdshow for AC3 in m2ts/mkv).
Thanks Andy. I would most likely use MatroskaSplitter.ax and avoid Haali. My mkvs have two tracks (HD audio and secondary AC3) but the HD Audio track is flagged as default and from an HTPC standpoint I would only ever use the HD track anyhow (the secondary AC3 track is only for use with the HD200).

Has it been detailed anywhere on how to set up bitstreaming in SageTV (i.e. how disable/override features in SageTV, make sure FFDShow Audio decoder is being used, etc...)? I guess this question may be better to hold off on until V7 is out in the wild as I am sure processes have changed from V6.

Also, any noticeable PQ issues with SageTVs internal player? I always felt that the PQ from MPC HC was much better then that of the internal WMP/WMC player.

If I can bitstream without having to hack up my HTPC and stick with the internal player that would obviously be ideal.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
Thanks Andy. I would most likely use MatroskaSplitter.ax and avoid Haali. My mkvs have two tracks (HD audio and secondary AC3) but the HD Audio track is flagged as default and from an HTPC standpoint I would only ever use the HD track anyhow (the secondary AC3 track is only for use with the HD200).
This may cause problems with Sage+stock MPC-HC mkv splitter. I compiled a custom rev that only exposes the first audio stream when I was having issues with Haali.

The most recent rev of Haali has been pretty good, so I've been using that w/ Sage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
Has it been detailed anywhere on how to set up bitstreaming in SageTV (i.e. how disable/override features in SageTV, make sure FFDShow Audio decoder is being used, etc...)? I guess this question may be better to hold off on until V7 is out in the wild as I am sure processes have changed from V6.
For the most part there's not much to document (configure ffdshow, set it as the preferred audio filter in Sage).

My wife's TV viewing habits don't agree with ffdshow (it doesn't handle skipping around in the file w/ reckless abandon as well as AC3Filter) so I use "Default" as the setting in Sage and let my plugin sort out what filter to load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
Also, any noticeable PQ issues with SageTVs internal player? I always felt that the PQ from MPC HC was much better then that of the internal WMP/WMC player.
They should be the same as long as you're using the same decoder. Only negative delta I can think of is that I don't think Sage support BD subtitles, but it will work with embedded and external SRT.
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
This may cause problems with Sage+stock MPC-HC mkv splitter. I compiled a custom rev that only exposes the first audio stream when I was having issues with Haali.

The most recent rev of Haali has been pretty good, so I've been using that w/ Sage.

For the most part there's not much to document (configure ffdshow, set it as the preferred audio filter in Sage).

My wife's TV viewing habits don't agree with ffdshow (it doesn't handle skipping around in the file w/ reckless abandon as well as AC3Filter) so I use "Default" as the setting in Sage and let my plugin sort out what filter to load.

They should be the same as long as you're using the same decoder. Only negative delta I can think of is that I don't think Sage support BD subtitles, but it will work with embedded and external SRT.
Thanks. Once V7 finally gets out at some point today I will spend some time on to see if I can get everything working properly. I haven't spent much time with SageTV in a while which actually may be a good thing if v7 has significant changes. As far as subtitles do you know if SageTV support hi res (i.e. 1080p) idx/sub subtitles, or is it just the pgs/sup subtitles that it cannot handle? When I create my mkvs I convert the forced subs into idx/sub since I think right now only XBMC can play back pgs/sup subtitles in mkvs (and MakeMKV in the only program that I know of that muxed the original Blu Ray/pgs subtitles into mkv)
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2010, 11:57 AM
babgvant babgvant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
As far as subtitles do you know if SageTV support hi res (i.e. 1080p) idx/sub subtitles, or is it just the pgs/sup subtitles that it cannot handle?
Don't know. Since it supports SRT I use those.
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2010, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
Don't know. Since it supports SRT I use those.
V7 was just released so hopefully I can start answering some of my questions
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2010, 06:14 PM
stlbearboy stlbearboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
Ffdshow works for bit streaming HD audio in Sage V6 and V7. V7 will handle MKV natively, but you can disable the feature and use Haali or the MPC-HC splitter (M2TS is natively supported in Sage and AFAIK cannot be disabled).

If native support is disabled Haali is the preferred option for MKV mostly because the MPC-HC splitter presents all of the audio tracks (although I have a custom build of the MPC-HC splitter that only presents one track). If you opt to use non-native MKV support, audio stream selection will not work (not a huge issue if the MKV is muxed with the correct forced/default audio switches).

V7 adds a feature that allows plugins to run as part of the graph creation process. I will be releasing two plugins shortly that allow for refresh rate changing (based on a user provided fps->rate map) and filter insertion/blocking based on container and media type (e.g. use AC3Filter for AC3 in mpg/ts and ffdshow for AC3 in m2ts/mkv).
How do you disable the sage splitter and get it to use Haali? I would like to use the MPC-HC filter in Sage
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2010, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by stlbearboy View Post
How do you disable the sage splitter and get it to use Haali? I would like to use the MPC-HC filter in Sage
it should be

HKLM\Software\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow, EnableSageTVStreamDemux(DWORD) = 0

but I found it in (win7 or vista)

HKEY_USERS\{SID}_Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow
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  #10  
Old 05-20-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

V7 adds a feature that allows plugins to run as part of the graph creation process. I will be releasing two plugins shortly that allow for refresh rate changing (based on a user provided fps->rate map) and filter insertion/blocking based on container and media type (e.g. use AC3Filter for AC3 in mpg/ts and ffdshow for AC3 in m2ts/mkv).
http://babgvant.com/files/folders/sa...ntry17125.aspx
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
it should be

HKLM\Software\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow, EnableSageTVStreamDemux(DWORD) = 0

but I found it in (win7 or vista)

HKEY_USERS\{SID}_Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow
Does that work in version 6? I didn't find that key in either location on my version 6 client. I added it to both locations and it still does not work. Or do I need to do it on the server?
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2010, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by stlbearboy View Post
Does that work in version 6? I didn't find that key in either location on my version 6 client. I added it to both locations and it still does not work. Or do I need to do it on the server?
V6 doesn't include native MKV support. It will use Haali w/o any coaxing.
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2010, 08:45 AM
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Andy,

As SageTV is not currently my main front end, I am still trying to sort out how to set up HD Audio bitstreaming with SageTV v7. Here are my questions, bare with me if they sound basic from a SageTV standpoint:

1. Since V7 supports mkvs natively, is it necessary to disable and use a different splitter (MatroskaSplitter.ax or Haali) to get bitstreaming?

2. Assuming the answer is yes, you had mentioned that you would need to disable the SageTV mkv splitter (on my w7 x32 PC it is located at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Frey Technologies\Common\Directshow). Does this need to be done manually (I assume you would need to set EnableSageTVStreamDemux(DWORD) = 0) or does your plugin that you just released handle this?

3. For your plugin I loaded your main.reg and had some questions on exactly what is happening here:

For VC-1 you recommend using the WMVideo Decoder DMO, any reason why? Also, for the Blocked Filters, where exactly do you get those keys from (and what are those keys)?



For TrueHD I see you set FFDShow Audio Decoder. Since it appears that you type it in manually (both adding TrueHD and FFDShow) how accurate do you have to be (for example, would you get the same result if you typed in True HD as with TrueHD)?



For the m2ts screenshot for your VC-1 filter what is that key, and why did you enter in a key and not the name of the filter (as you did with mkv)



Currently my Blu Ray collection is either h.264/vc-1 mkvs or h.264/vc-1 ts, so trying to sort out the right combination to get bitstreaming working.
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2010, 11:49 AM
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@ Andy,

Update, regarding where you were getting the filter keys from disregard, I found:

ffdshow video decoder : {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
ffdshow audio decoder : {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
haali media splitter : {55DA30FC-F16B-49FC-BAA5-AE59FC65F82D}
etc....
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2010, 05:20 PM
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Registry location for EnableSageTVStreamDemux in Windows 7 64bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
it should be

HKLM\Software\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow, EnableSageTVStreamDemux(DWORD) = 0

but I found it in (win7 or vista)

HKEY_USERS\{SID}_Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow
I've noticed for Windows 7 64bit (and I assume Vista 64bit as well), the registry location is:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow
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Last edited by sleeeves; 05-28-2010 at 05:25 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-28-2010, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

1. Since V7 supports mkvs natively, is it necessary to disable and use a different splitter (MatroskaSplitter.ax or Haali) to get bitstreaming?
I don't think it's required. I was having several issues with native support so I disabled it to use Haali.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
2. Assuming the answer is yes, you had mentioned that you would need to disable the SageTV mkv splitter (on my w7 x32 PC it is located at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Frey Technologies\Common\Directshow). Does this need to be done manually (I assume you would need to set EnableSageTVStreamDemux(DWORD) = 0) or does your plugin that you just released handle this?
Yes. I may add support to my Sage settings tool when they sort out the Virtual Store stuff (that shouldn't work the way it does).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
3. For your plugin I loaded your main.reg and had some questions on exactly what is happening here:

For VC-1 you recommend using the WMVideo Decoder DMO, any reason why? Also, for the Blocked Filters, where exactly do you get those keys from (and what are those keys)?
Recommend isn't really the right work Every PC has it, so I went with what will work...

I saw that you figured out the relationship b/w the GUID and filter names. For other readers the GUID is just another way to refer to the filter (use GraphStudio to find it). Either can be used, the GUIDs are there because earlier revs of the plugins didn't load filters by name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post


For TrueHD I see you set FFDShow Audio Decoder. Since it appears that you type it in manually (both adding TrueHD and FFDShow) how accurate do you have to be (for example, would you get the same result if you typed in True HD as with TrueHD)?
The codec you enter needs to match exactly what MediaInfo reports in its GUI. Adding codec detection to my settings GUI using MediaInfo is on the TODO list, just have had time to add it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post


For the m2ts screenshot for your VC-1 filter what is that key, and why did you enter in a key and not the name of the filter (as you did with mkv)

Either work - see above for why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeeves View Post
I've noticed for Windows 7 64bit (and I assume Vista 64bit as well), the registry location is:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow
Yep. Sage is a 32-bit application, all 32-bit applications use the Wow6432Node on 64-bit platforms.
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2010, 05:01 AM
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Thanks Andy, I will try to spend some time messing around with the graphs. I tried loading your Main.reg thinking that at a minimum it should give me bitstreaming with TrueHD mkvs but all I got was stereo. Gonna do some tweaking when I get some time later today.
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
Thanks Andy, I will try to spend some time messing around with the graphs. I tried loading your Main.reg thinking that at a minimum it should give me bitstreaming with TrueHD mkvs but all I got was stereo. Gonna do some tweaking when I get some time later today.
Check your AC3Filter configuration. Sage installs an ancient rev that is configured all wrong, I use some post-install scripts to get everything back to how I like it after installing a new version of Sage.

You don't need to use these plugins to get HD audio from Sage. Setting ffdshow as your default audio decoder in Sage (once AC3Filter is tamed) is enough.
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  #19  
Old 05-29-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
Check your AC3Filter configuration. Sage installs an ancient rev that is configured all wrong, I use some post-install scripts to get everything back to how I like it after installing a new version of Sage.

You don't need to use these plugins to get HD audio from Sage. Setting ffdshow as your default audio decoder in Sage (once AC3Filter is tamed) is enough.
I don't have AC3Filter installed on my HTPC unless SageTV installed?
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  #20  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:07 PM
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I don't have AC3Filter installed on my HTPC unless SageTV installed?
It does - and in a sub-optimal config.
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