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  #1  
Old 10-16-2010, 08:39 AM
Rob Rob is offline
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R5000 dishnetworks sports playback issue

I asked support for suggestions and got "we don't support the R5000". A bit frusterating since I have seen Narflex work with people in the forums on
R5000 timeline issues.

Anyway, maybe I should have started here first. It is hard to believe that
R5000 users with dishnetworks are living with the issue I am having, so I wonder if I am missing something.

Configuration: 2 R5000's and one Vbox OTA tuners. Sage Server 6.6. Windows XP on an intel Q6700 PC. All playback is thru HD200's.

Issue: During playback, the sound drops out and the recording goes into fast forward. If playback is stopped and restarted, the issue will trigger again at the same time in the recording, making the recording unusable in Sage. The recording will playback fine in windows media player on my server.

This issue never happens with the OTA tuner and it never happens on R5000 recordings that are not sports. It happens on sports recordings (football, basketball, hockey) and it has happened on FOX, CBS, NBC, ESPN and FOX-SW, so probably on all channels.

Are other R5000 dishnetworks users having this problem? If not I wonder what is different about my setup. If yes, then how do you work around it to make it usable?
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2010, 08:50 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Yeah, I've seen that, generally on "long" recordings, say only after at least 2 hours. No idea how to fix it. Frankly I think I wish I'd gotten a second HD PVR instead of an R5000. My HD PVR works better.
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2010, 09:42 AM
Rob Rob is offline
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I am considering getting the HD-PVR as well. I wish I could figure out how to connect it to the R5000 reciever via component and have it shadow all the recordings the R5000 makes. Then the channel changing could happen via the USB (where it never fails) and if the R5000 recording has an issue, I'd have the backup to switch over to.

Or if there was a way to direct sports to the HD-PVR and all else to the R5000...

Since you have both, what is the PQ difference? Is it noticable on you projector?
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2010, 09:45 AM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I am considering getting the HD-PVR as well. I wish I could figure out how to connect it to the R5000 reciever via component and have it shadow all the recordings the R5000 makes. Then the channel changing could happen via the USB (where it never fails) and if the R5000 recording has an issue, I'd have the backup to switch over to.
My USB-UIRT/HD PVR tuning is actually more reliable than my R5000, I occasionally end up with R5000 recordings of completely the wrong thing. Never see that happen with the HD PVR.

Quote:
Since you have both, what is the PQ difference? Is it noticable on you projector?
Nope.
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2010, 10:08 AM
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Fuzzy Fuzzy is offline
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About the only noticeable difference would be file size. The dish network HD broadcasts ar about 5Mbps... to accurately reproduce that with the HD-PVR, you'd have to run near max at 11-12Mbps.

That said, I have not seen the problem you're talking about with sports.. though I only really watch football, which is mostly OTA (with the exception of Monday night).
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unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers.
Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA.
Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S
Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2010, 11:09 AM
Rob Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yeah, I've seen that, generally on "long" recordings, say only after at least 2 hours.
Now that you mention it, it does always seem to be at least two hours into the recording. Maybe that is why I only see it on sports and maybe the issue is not limited to sports. Most everything else I record with Sage is not over 2 hours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
About the only noticeable difference would be file size. The dish network HD broadcasts ar about 5Mbps... to accurately reproduce that with the HD-PVR, you'd have to run near max at 11-12Mbps.
That would not really bother me. Disk space is cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
That said, I have not seen the problem you're talking about with sports.. though I only really watch football, which is mostly OTA (with the exception of Monday night).
I have the OTA tuner's merit set between the two R5000's so I can record the show before the sporting event and pad the end time to cover the game. This give me a backup recording, but sometimes Sage switches it up and records the second one on the second R5000, defeating my workaround.

The reason I don't just put the OTA as the first tuner is that it is the dish has more reliable reception than the antenna when it is raining.

Last edited by Rob; 10-16-2010 at 11:30 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2010, 02:54 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Stanger89,

Have you brought this up with support? Since you contribute so much and are having the issue, they may address it for you and I can get lucky.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2010, 03:34 PM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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I'm about 99.9% sure it's an R5000 recording issue. Being a network encoder Sage isn't involved in the recording beyond requesting it and telling when to stop.
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2010, 03:57 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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That could be, but it seems curious that they play back fine when I try them in Windows Media Player on the server.
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2010, 04:31 PM
peternm22 peternm22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
That could be, but it seems curious that they play back fine when I try them in Windows Media Player on the server.
In your first post, you mentioned you use the HD200 for playback. What happens when you try to play them on an actual Windows SageTV client?

I've noticed my problematic R5000 recordings play fine on a Windows client, but not my HD100 or HD300.

Also, are you running version 7?
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2010, 04:47 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Hmmm. That is an interesting thought. It has been so long since I actually used a Sage Client that I did not think of trying to play it on the Sage Server. I gotta give that a try and see. Not that it would solve my playback since I do not have any clients, but it would be good to know.

I am still using verison 6.6. This problem has exited for years now. Every time I have upgraded over the last couple of years I have hoped it would fix it. So, I'm not holding my breath that V7 will fix it.
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2010, 05:05 PM
Helheim Helheim is offline
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I have the same issue as well and not just sports so I just bought an HDPVR to see if that will work better.
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2010, 05:26 PM
peternm22 peternm22 is offline
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I'm in a very similar position as you are.

I've had this problem with the R5000 for years as well. Until recently, my PC wasn't fast enough to play HD content so I've always just used my HD100. When the new beta started up, I tried the R5000 recordings and they still didn't work.

I checked with SageTV, and they said they were working on it but had limited files to test with. I sent 6 of my problematic R5000 recordings down to them (my upload speed is horrible, so I mailed them down on dual layer DVD's). Sage support confirmed they got them.

I recently built a new server for SageTV, and I am now able to playback the HD files correctly. I tested all 6 of my problematic files, and they all played back beautifully without a single issue.

Thinking that it had finally been fixed, I tried playing back the files on the HD100... and still not playable. I don't know if the playback on a Windows client was fixed for V7, or before, since I have only recently been able to use a Windows client for HD files.

I e-mailed SageTV about this, and here is the reply I received:

Quote:
Peter,

Yes there will need to be a firmware update, I just don't know when that
will be out.

George
In the meantime, I've also purchased a HD300. Running on the latest firmware, it also has the same playback issues with some R5000 recordings as my HD100 did.

So SageTV is indeed working on this, there just isn't an ETA for a fix. I should note that my satellite provider (Shaw Direct) only uses MPEG2 at this time. I believe Dish Network in the states also uses MPEG4, so I'm unsure if the fixes for MPEG2 recordings would apply to the MPEG4 recordings.

As a workaround, I've been using a function of the VideoReDo software called "Quick Stream Fix". It can be run from the command line, and using the "External Apps" plugin you can run it from the SageTV interface. This has fixed every recording I've run through it. The downside to it is that you have to wait for the file to be finished recording before you can run it (you can't run it while it's being recorded).
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2010, 06:48 PM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I am still using verison 6.6. This problem has exited for years now. Every time I have upgraded over the last couple of years I have hoped it would fix it. So, I'm not holding my breath that V7 will fix it.
Sounds like you never reported the issue, this is the classic example of why some things never get fixed.
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:44 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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It is true, I was hoping for a fix and never reported it. It does not bother me most of the year, but now football season is here again.....

I'm thinking you have not reported it either.

Below is what I got when I reported it. No help at all. Just a classic George response.

Rob,

Unfortunately we don't officially support the R5000.

But one thing you can try is the beta version of Sage to see if it helps.
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:53 PM
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stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
It is true, I was hoping for a fix and never reported it. It does not bother me most of the year, but now football season is here again.....

I'm thinking you have not reported it either.
Yeah, but I've only seen it happen like twice. I basically assumed it was a random glitch until now.
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2010, 09:44 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peternm22 View Post
I checked with SageTV, and they said they were working on it but had limited files to test with.
I am thrilled to hear they are working ot it and would be happy to provide them some examples. I wish I had gotten the information from support that they are working it and a request for examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peternm22 View Post
As a workaround, I've been using a function of the VideoReDo software called "Quick Stream Fix".
Oh, but I just can't wait for the game to end before watching it! Someone bight tell me the score.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yeah, but I've only seen it happen like twice. I basically assumed it was a random glitch until now.
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be a random glitch, but it is the only drawback to my R5000 setup. In hindsight, I should have reported it earlier, but so many other things have gotten fixed over the years by just waiting for the next release or two that I assumed they would get to it. That's what I get for assumptions.....

Maybe they will get it fixed now!
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2010, 11:06 PM
peternm22 peternm22 is offline
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This is a big assumption on my part, but it seems like SageTV knows the fix (since it works on the Windows client), they just haven't implemented it on the extenders yet. I'm guessing it isn't at the top of their priorities since they seem pretty busy with V7 in general. As far as sending them more files, they mentioned the ones I sent should be more than enough.

The problem, as I understand it, has to do with the time codes in the MPEG files from the R5000 recordings. Since the R5000 just records all the data, if the time codes are a bit "off", it can present an issue with playback. Pausing, skipping, fast forwarding, skipping back... I've experienced them all with my R5000 recordings. The Quick Stream Fix essential fixes all of these problems, putting the time codes in the right order. The SageTV fix would probably have to do with them watching the timecodes (I think they are called PTS something), and implementing some type of error watching/correction. This is way over my head technically, so don't take everything I say as gospel

I should note I first brought this issue up with Sage in June 2009, and they said at the time it was a issue that still needed to be fixed and the developers are aware of the issue. I inquired again when the V7 beta first came out, and they mentioned that some fixes were already in there (perhaps evident by the recordings working on a Windows client) but they only had 1 test recording at the time (hence me sending them 6 more).

This is really my only major annoyance with SageTV right now. I've got a couple other minor issues (can't get 1080p from my HD300, R5000 can't record after system wakes from sleep, can't get HD300 WOL to work), but this is the only one that presents a major usability problem. I'm optimistic there will be a fix, but I'm not holding my breath.
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  #19  
Old 10-24-2010, 01:22 AM
curtvm curtvm is offline
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I came here searching for the same problem (I didn't think I would find anything). I have an R5000(Dish), SageTV6, HDHomerun, and HD200. I have been running several years, and am mostly happy. I have my SageTV software setup as a headless 'server' (Vista basic), with the HD200 doing all the client work. I remote into the server to do any admin stuff. I have Vista 'tamed' the way I want (no auto updates, etc.), and basically have not touched it for a long time. Everything just works.

But, I have the same problem as described in this thread. Some long recordings (it always seems to be an interesting sports event) start to fast forward about half way in. The only way I can almost get to see some of the rest is by skipping ahead. When I do that, it will skip ahead, but the time line will jump backwards a ways. I keep skipping ahead as needed, and can sometimes at least see the end of the game.

It doesn't happen often enough to get upset, but often enough for me to search this forum. I think it has only happened once in all the baseball playoff games I recorded, and only once so far this season for a Monday Night Football game.

I was thinking about upgrading to a HD300 and SageTV7, but it sounds like that may not be the answer (yet).

(unrelated, but more annoying, is I just found out my recording of the sf/phillies game 6 was wrong. It must have been changed on the schedule or something, as it shows in my recordings as game 6 (starting 230pm sat), but now I see the game was at night and looking at the program guide it also shows it at night. I had setup all the games in advance, and thought I had it covered, but I guess I should have payed more attention.)

Last edited by curtvm; 10-24-2010 at 10:23 AM.
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  #20  
Old 10-25-2010, 09:27 PM
pilotguy7ca pilotguy7ca is offline
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Just throwing my own experiences in as I have 4 x r5000 starchoice receivers and have had this same problem from time to time. I find that it can happen anytime during the recording, it just happened tonight at about the 45min mark of an hour long show. I have seen the issue on 30 min long shows as well. It doesn't happen too often but enough to be annoying. I'm watching everything on hd200's and have not tried to see if mine work properly on a pc client.
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