Beta Version 1.4.5 Now Available

[JasonJoel]

I can understand that. But on the other hand when MS Office first came out they didn't even have Powerpoint - which is now a core app in the suite... Rome wasn't built in a day.

But in the end, they are adding the native DTV support in this beta cycle, so in a few weeks it will be in there and everyone will be happy (the beta cycles are much shorter on this product than they were on Snapstream's [I beta tested it up to release of 3.0]- so a few weeks is not an exaggeration).

So, like I said, if it is a must have feature then check back when v1.4 goes final. It is a moot point arguing it should have been in from day one at this point. It wasn't, but is being added now.

Some of this feature prioritization is exactly why they opened the feature request thread in the regular (non-beta) SageTV forum. So they can take this user input an start prioritizing when it gets added to the product.

Not trying to be argumentative. Just healthy discussion. Tempers don't tend to run high on this board (thank goodness).

Jason

Originally posted by debennett2
If you are going to charge for an app (especially nearly the same as what your competitor's software was going for), it had best not need to rely on ANY 3rd-party software IMO. That just makes plain sense to me. I don't mean to be argumentative, but if I feel this way about it, I am sure there are several others. The fact that the feature is not there without 3rd-aprty support leaves a huge hole in their market as well. I am sure if I felt like it, I could just install and configure whatever 3rd-party apps I needed to and get it working but I just don't know if it is worth it. I haven't been able to test out the application the way I should because of this and most people who are using the trial would install it, figure out that they can't control their satellite without searching and probing for the answers on how to get it to work, and move on and never come back. Considering the large amounts of folks using Directv, I think that is a huge mistake as far as marketing goes. Just a shame really. It is probably a great app (or potentially) but there are a lot of us out there that think the same way I do...if you are paying for it, it better do everything an app of this nature should. Would you buy MS Office if it wouldn't open Powerpoint apps if that is all you were using it for?

[Narflex]

kevthor,

Please attach a log file from when you have COM1 selected. Thanks.

[Drewbot]

IMO it comes down to the feature set that is most important to you. Snapstream does not support HW mpeg cards. (unless it has changed very recently) Sage does. Playback and recording quality and an INTEGRATED EPG were FAR more important to me than native DTV control, though if there had not been any free solution I would have taken a pass as well. In fact it was Snapsteams lack of an EPG that caused me to quickly pass on it as well.

In my quest to build a HTPC I went through at least 4 TV cards and every piece of software I could find (Snapstream, ChrisTV, Showshifter, Etc.) After all the searching I found SageTV to be easily the best of the lot for the features I wanted. While I do agree that some of the other HTPC programs have better looking UI's (for now) I would rather have better looking video.

I was amazed to see how responsive the developers and the user community are here. Like many of the others in the Sage community I have come to trust that anything we don't have right now in terms of "cool" features we can get, because the developers are active and interested in making the software better.

My 2 cents
-Drew

[kevthor]

Narflex: I would love to but however I have since re-imaged my computer and put back on 1.3 since the beta was inoperable not only because of the native dtv support (because I could've used the plug in as I am using in 1.3) but the choppy panning of video that I talked about in my first thread.

If you do want I can reimage my htpc again and put in the beta to generate the log file for you. It would be a little bit of work but I would not mind helping at all. We could all do a little as we know how much you guys are doing for us.

Let me know if you'd like me to do that or not.

Thanks

[salsbst]

I've seen some choppy video here, too, since moving to 1.4.5, but have been reluctant to nag about it b/c I did add a USB device to my system around the same time that I installed 1.4.5.

Might my log file be helpful? My machine is obviously fast enough and I had resolved previous video choppiness with upgrades to drivers.... LMK if I should post.

Thanks,

[PeteInSF]

I have tested the serial control of an RCA "G" series DirectTV and it works GREAT!

config:

XP 866 P-iii
creative card (with hacked 720 line driver)
setup as a server only...

[debennett2]

IMO it comes down to the feature set that is most important to you. Snapstream does not support HW mpeg cards. (unless it has changed very recently) Sage does. Playback and recording quality and an INTEGRATED EPG were FAR more important to me than native DTV control, though if there had not been any free solution I would have taken a pass as well. In fact it was Snapsteams lack of an EPG that caused me to quickly pass on it as well.

Snapstream DOES support hardware encoding. In fact I am using my PVR 250 with it with very great success. As far as the EPG goes, it DOES have a built-in EPG and, in fact, is much more robust than Sage's is right now as far as covering viewing areas.

My complaints about Snapstream are this:

-No Client/Server for scheduling on a PC without the capture card
-No search option in the program guide in the FSUI, just the web interface.
-No intelligent recording

My complaints about Sage (so far):

-No DTV control support (at least yet)
-Interface is kinda ugly in comparison. Tiny buttons that I will never use in Live TV since I use a remote exclusively, customization of how Sage starts up and in what screen isn;t there (or is hidden quite well)...

[salsbst]

Dan,

I think you can remove the tiny buttons with a checkbox somewhere in advanced setup.

Based on what I've read, I would argue that there is DTV control support. If you're bothered by configuring it, then I think ReplayTV is probably your best bet. I mean this totally in the spirit of advice, no flame here -- if you don't want to go through a few hassles here and there with configuring the apps and/or waiting for fixes or using only production versions of the software, then a STB like a ReplayTV or Tivo may suit you much better.

Frey, please forgive me for recommending a competitor in this case.

Regards,
Stuart

[JasonJoel]

Having used Snapstream for over a year straight, I tend to agree with most of your opinions. Although I'll add that in its current state their mpeg DEcoder is absolutely atrocious - choppy as heck on my 2GHz machine. The recordings play fine in other programs though, so I know it is their DEcoder. They really should have added support for 3rd party decoders.

I don't really like the small buttons either - I use my Streamzap remotes 100% of the time. So if they could be removed (as is mentioned in the previous post) I would love to know how.

I don't like the look of the interface much at all actually (although it is better than it was in v1.0). I can wait until the skinnable version comes out though. Patience I guess. I am enjoying the perfect recording and playback EVERY time more than I miss a pretty GUI (although I want that too).

Jason

Originally posted by debennett2
Snapstream DOES support hardware encoding. In fact I am using my PVR 250 with it with very great success. As far as the EPG goes, it DOES have a built-in EPG and, in fact, is much more robust than Sage's is right now as far as covering viewing areas.

My complaints about Snapstream are this:

-No Client/Server for scheduling on a PC without the capture card
-No search option in the program guide in the FSUI, just the web interface.
-No intelligent recording

My complaints about Sage (so far):

-No DTV control support (at least yet)
-Interface is kinda ugly in comparison. Tiny buttons that I will never use in Live TV since I use a remote exclusively, customization of how Sage starts up and in what screen isn;t there (or is hidden quite well)...

[salsbst]

Go to "Setup / Detailed Setup / Multimedia" and uncheck "Enable Toolbars". Are those (now hopefully missing) buttons the ones you guys are trying to get rid of?

[debennett2]

salsbst,
I am a very patient person and consider my self very tech savvy to say the least (at least more than anyone I have the pleasure of knowing in real life). I have no problem setting something up manually and tinkering (I do use myHTPC and if you know what that is you know what I am talking about....as well as advanced configurations in girder). The problem I DO have is knowing there is an alternative besides the ones you mentioned that work well, I was just hoping to get the best of both and see who does it first (Snapstream is what I am talking about by the way).

JasonJoel,
I don't have issues with playback ever since I started using the PVr 250 in Snapstream. Regardless, they are adding external decoder support in the next updated release (probably 3.2).

[JasonJoel]

Good... More competition between companies makes for a better product for everyone.

There were a lot of things I really liked about Snapstream's interface (EXCEPT the no show searching in FSUI - which is the only UI I am willing to use).

I still find SageTV *much* more reliable... And I have come to rely on the SageTV client to watch shows remotely via 54G wireless (WITHOUT re-encoding my mpeg videos...). Also, I am planning on using dual PVR250's this fall in one machine for recording multiple shows simultaneously, which only SageTV can currently do...

But since I own both, I can pick and choose at will.

Jason

Originally posted by debennett2

*SNIP*
JasonJoel,
I don't have issues with playback ever since I started using the PVr 250 in Snapstream. Regardless, they are adding external decoder support in the next updated release (probably 3.2).
*END SNIP*

[gplasky]

Just noticed with Beta 1.4.5 if I set it to load at startup full screen, it only loads in the system tray. Anyone else have this or is it just me?

Gerry

[robertmcox]

YES!!

And this one really ticked me off!

SOLUTION = Set sage to run full screen at startup. Then make a shortcut to SageTV and put it in your Start Menu Startup folder with a "-awake". You then get the expected behavior. I also observed in this configuration a bonus -- sleeping Sage (or acidentally hitting the power button on the Hauppage remote) doesn't kill the app and break my recording!

Related feature request = a checkbox in advanced setup to disable the fullscreen button on the Hauppage remote.

[gplasky]

Thanks. That certainly helps. Any other commandline switches for SageTV like (-awake) that I'm not aware of? Would be helpful if there was a list somewhere...unless that's the only one.

Gerry

[Narflex]

The full screen startup bug is fixed for 1.4.7. (yeah, I know its about time)

There's only one other command line flag, and it's introduced in 1.4.7.

It's -dvd. It's purpose is so you can configure autoplay of DVDs with SageTV. If you run SageTV.exe -dvd while sageTV is already running, it'll send a notification to SageTV to check for a DVD in the drive and to start playing it. There'll be a .reg file with the new build that you can run to configure this feature.

[gplasky]

Great. So you know the next question-When? (no pressure here.)



Gerry

[Narflex]

Monday's the plan.

[gplasky]

Wow-quick response. No hesitation either. I'm impressed. Thanks for all the hard and quick work you guys do on this great program. Really itching to see that Sage TV Studio that has been mentioned. Now that's the cat's meow.



Gerry