MediaReady 5000

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Memory limitations would be the least of the concerns, the x86 emulator would be more of a pain, but still not impossible...

It's only got 64megs of ram, and a lot of that is used up by the underlying OS requirements. If I recall on my Rev-A machine there's only about 25 megs available. Would a Sage client fit into that footprint?

[zz5]

When the announcement about the MediaReady 5000 came out, I read it and I also read a couple other things about it, but I still don't understand what it is. Is it just a PC in a home theater type case? Or is it something else, maybe something with a customized motherboard and CPU like Tivo? Wayne, I know you can't open it up, but is their any documentation with it that could tell you?

[mikejaner]

When the announcement about the MediaReady 5000 came out, I read it and I also read a couple other things about it, but I still don't understand what it is. Is it just a PC in a home theater type case? Or is it something else, maybe something with a customized motherboard and CPU like Tivo? Wayne, I know you can't open it up, but is their any documentation with it that could tell you?

It's more of a turnkey solution to having a SageTV system. Think of it as a Tivo. When you buy it, you just take it out of the box and hook it up to your TV etc.., and Sage starts up. It's running Linux and Sage custom configured for that hardware.
With our everyday computers, you have to Install an OS, Drivers, Patches, Utilities, Decoders, Remotes, Girder, Sage etc........ Then you have to tweak etc. I'm sure there is some tweaking you can do with this system, but it is made to work out of the box.
And it burns DVD's from your shows with no addons.

[dbfresh23]

Well sorta like a tivo but more like a modified pc. Like a Tivo you're supposed to be able to just take it out of the box and plug it in, but that's about where the similarities end. It's running an x86 cpu and being that the tuner isn't integrated like on a tivo, there must be a pci slot. It seems to be a custom via x86 pcb and would seem much closer to a pc then a tivo.

[waynedunham]

Ok, lots to talk about, and still many questions.

VWB called me back yesterday afternoon in regards to the problem I had with it not seeing the PVR card. Since that issue had been resolved on my own it gave me a chance to talk to the person for a while about what the box is, what it does well out of the box, and what many of us SageTv users would *LIKE* it to do.
#1 topic I brought up was the noise of the fan since this is going to be the sticking point for most people looking at buying the MR 5000. They're not looking for a big Sage server, they're looking for something to put in their AV cabinet in the main viewing room that can access their SageTV files. They certainly aren't going to want something with a fan humming away at mid 30's decibels. (I forgot the number he told me, but it was in the 32-36 range). He did say that they had gotten feedback complaining about the noise level but seemed worried about the heat vs. noise tradeoff as far as component life was concerned. I didn't get into the whole thing much more than that at this time. I know for a fact that you can get a WHOLE LOT quieter than this is. It's the PS fan making the most noise. I think they just went in the wrong direction, it's got a small fan spinning madly, where they should have gone with a bigger slower turning fan which would move as much if not more air at a lot lower db. The PS fan looks like about 40mm. There are a lot of machines out there with higher horsepower and hot components in them that have much quieter fans. Just for ha-ha's I decided to pull out my Radio Shack DB meter and about 6" from the fan I'm getting over 40db. I don't know at what distance most db ratings are done on PC fans, so I don't how that # would match up with the measurement I was told on the phone yesterday.

The MR 5000 looks like a piece of AV equipment, but the noise will be the or deal maker/breaker for most folks.

Let's face it "Joe Sixpack" isn't going to shell out $700 to replace their VCR, and/or their DVD player. The folks who would be interested in the MediaREADY 5000 want a PVR that can record programming, and access stored video, photos, and music files over their home network. You've got to give them a LOT more than just a way to record shows and burn DVD's since you can go out and get a DVD burner/VCR combo unit for $200 or less nowadays. The fact that it can go online to do web and Email may be attractive to some people but has absolutely no interest to me personally and I doubt many of the Sage community have much interest in that either.

Here's a link to the Specifications Sheet in PDF format. It's running a ViaC3 1mhz chip, 128mb DDRam, 120gb HD, 10/100 internet, USB2, Firewire.

I tried to impress upon him just how close this is to what many of us here are looking for.

Here's my short list:

NOISE!! MUST be quieter!
Ability to mod it, i.e. edit properties files, add stv's and stvi's, etc.
Ability to see/use PVR cards on another machine.

I haven't tried using Sage Recorder to utilize the Network Encoders capability of Sage. Does Sage Recorder still work with the 3.0 Beta? I'll have to experiment with this when I get a chance.

I did try getting Sage Client to connect to the machine and it couldn't access the machine although it could *see* it when I input the IP address of the box. The network sees the machine, but apparently it doesn't have anything set to share since I can't see anything.(see below)

Another gripe I have is they are running this as a closed system. There's no way to get out of the UI to a desktop/command prompt. And I asked if it were possible to login remotely say via telnet and he said no.
So out of the box at least it's a closed system, but here in the Sage community "vee have vays of making you talk!" For Instance, if you plug in a USB key it will only allow you to copy files from the USB Key to the declared directories for video, music, pictures. I haven't tried to see if you could temporarily declare say your Sage folder as a music directory in order to get access to things like the sage.properties file to edit it. Hmmm anothe experiment.


I plan on sitting down in the next couple days and writing much of what we discussed on the phone yesterday and much more down and sending it to one of the VP's who I've been Emailing with questions since my initial interest in the MediaREADY 5000.

[waynedunham]

Anyone have a link to a copy of the Beta 3.03 Sage Client? The MediaREADY 5000 is using v3.03 according to the setup information page and it's supposed to allow client hookups. Wouldn't you know that I have all the Sage Client Betas from 3.05 up, but not the 3.03 version.
I tried using the Beta Sage Clients link to the current version and changing the version # to 3.03 in several different formats (i.e. with and without the PR and the # after the PR), but they always come back with a 404 - not found. So either I'm not guessing right on the filename, or they've pulled the file off the Beta page already since they're several versions past it.

Thanks

[dagar]

You may want to try server version 3.0.11b it specifically adds the ability to connect clients of different versions

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by dagar

You may want to try server version 3.0.11b it specifically adds the ability to connect clients of different versions

He wants to connect a PC client to the linux server, not the other way around. I don't believe he currently has a way to update the version on the linux box.

- Andy

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

Anyone have a link to a copy of the Beta 3.03 Sage Client?
Thanks

found it, had the client saved so I could figure out the URL, http://download.sage.tv/SageTVClient_V3_0_3PR4Setup.exe

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

found it, had the client saved so I could figure out the URL, http://download.sage.tv/SageTVClient_V3_0_3PR4Setup.exe

That was it, thank's a lot. I thought it might just be that I wasn't hitting the right filename.

Now off to try it and see if it will connect to the MediaREADY 5000. <fingers crossed>

[waynedunham]

Dang, still wrong version. Here's the section from the Sage0.txt file....

Mon 10/3 16:30:21.640 Error establishing server connection of:java.io.IOException: The SageTV Client & Server must be using the same version of the software.
Your server is running  3.0.3.1 and this client is running 3.0.3.20
java.io.IOException: The SageTV Client & Server must be using the same version of the software.

Well, at least we know it's talking to the MediaREADY 5000. Soooo close. I even tried massaging the filename ke6guj gave me putting in PR1 through PR3 in hopes that maybe there was another 3.0.3 version there. Was 3.0.3.1 even released for the PC?

[Opus4]

That's what I figured would happen... they _can_ connect, but obviously not with the slightly different versions you currently have. And, no, I don't know how the MediaReady system will be handling updates, so you'll have to check with them to see how they plan to handle updates and/or connecting to other clients.

- Andy

[ke6guj]

that sucks.

I think I'd yell at VWB and find out if they have a compatible client version, or else, find out how to update the server. I'd be screaming if they sold me something with BETA software and no way to update it to at least a release version when it goes gold.

[dbfresh23]

$700 for no HiDef, no updates, 1 support rep and beta software to boot! Not the greatest selling points.

[Opus4]

Oh yeah... there is an option in Detailed Setup for the linux system to check for updates & have them installed. That is run off of SageTV's servers, but it is for sending out fixes when they are available, not to keep it up-to-date with the current beta. The version installed on this system is not the same as the beta, since it was tested for distribution on this system.

Do you really want to try some things at your own risk? Did this system come with a restore CD? Can you make backup copies of any important files? If so, then have I got a deal for you! Just call... (Wait! Wrong follow-up.)

If you _really_ want to experiment, then make copies of the current jar, STV, wiz.bin, properties, etc., files on your linux system. You can try replacing the existing jar & STV (plus any missing graphics in the STV dir) with those from the latest beta. Will it work? I'm not 100% sure, which is why I suggested that you make sure everything is backed up, or that you have a restore CD to get back to where you started.

- Andy

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Oh yeah... there is an option in Detailed Setup for the linux system to check for updates & have them installed. That is run off of SageTV's servers, but it is for sending out fixes when they are available, not to keep it up-to-date with the current beta. The version installed on this system is not the same as the beta, since it was tested for distribution on this system.

The option is there on the menu, but on the right panel it only says "Check VWBinc.com for updates"

Originally Posted by Opus4

Do you really want to try some things at your own risk? Did this system come with a restore CD? Can you make backup copies of any important files? If so, then have I got a deal for you! Just call... (Wait! Wrong follow-up.)

If you _really_ want to experiment, then make copies of the current jar, STV, wiz.bin, properties, etc., files on your linux system. You can try replacing the existing jar & STV (plus any missing graphics in the STV dir) with those from the latest beta. Will it work? I'm not 100% sure, which is why I suggested that you make sure everything is backed up, or that you have a restore CD to get back to where you started.

That is one thing I forgot to mention to the tech when he called the other day. I was told it would come with a restore CD, but none was in the box with the unit.
I can make backups of some of the stuff, but have to boot with a boot CD in order to get access to the system. The unit boots up right into Sage and there's no way to exit Sage to get to any desktop or command prompt.
On the Sage menu there is an option to allow burning DVD's with the DVD writer on the system, but it only allows you access to directories that you have set in Sage as Video/Music/Photo directories.. I tried setting up one of the Sage program directories as an import directory, but the create dvd option only shows valid Sage media files. Wait, just tried import/export on the Media Library screen and it shows all the files in a dir set up as an import dir. So maybe if I hook up my USB external HD I can copy the Sage dirs.
Hmmm worth some experimenting tomorrow. I'll also have to dig through the closet and see if one of my versions of Partition Magic can clone the Linux formats the drive in the MediaREADY 5000 is using. That's one sure way of getting a backup. Of course that would mean opening up the case, which is something I haven't asked about yet. I doubt I'm going to get a thumbs up for that from VWB though. At least until the warranty runs out.

I don't know how well changing the files will work. They're using a custom STV and it seems like the system is pretty heavily modified. I'll see if they've got a standard STV in the directory which might be easier to work with while trying modifications.
It's on recording duty this evening, so I won't be able to mess with it until tomorrow at the earliest.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

$700 for no HiDef, no updates, 1 support rep and beta software to boot! Not the greatest selling points.

As Andy said, this was tested to work, and prior to 3.x there was no Linux version and even if they labled it 2.x it would have still been a new entity being their first run at a Linux version of Sage.

The system shows a lot of potential IMHO. I will be asking about a client version, and did mention on the phone the other day how important that would be for existing Sage users given the limitations on # of tuners and HD space limitations of the case the MediaREADY 5000 has. It's a great case for an AV cabinet, and a small Sage machine for people with limited requirements for recording, but too limited for a large section of people interested. The person I talked to seemed to understand and was going to bring it up.
I don't know for sure if they have only 1 support rep for the MediaREADY 5000, or if there just weren't any of them there on that day. It was near the end of the day and if there were more than 1 they might have left for the day, been in meetings, etc. On one of my calls they did say they'd been in meetings all day. Plus doing some looking around on the net I found out that VWB had been at some big show out in California just a few days prior to that. They could have been in meetings to address the show and things that had come up at the show.

As you can see I"m willing to be patient for now. It's new equipment that I'm trying to push past what they had envisioned as the market for the product. They weren't really aiming this thing as Sage power users, but I'm sure going to try and push them in that direction.

[waynedunham]

I am backing up the partitions from the MR 5000 right now. The drive in the MR 5000 is 120gb, but there is nowhere near that amount of space being used by data, of the 120gb about 75gb is set up for Sage media files. Since I only have a couple recordings right now most of that is free space.
So I had a 40gb hd in the closet and put it in my USB/Firewire external HD case and booted up with my Knoppix CD to gain access to the system. Created the partitions as closely as possible to the ones on the MR 5000, with the media partition given the space left over after creating all the boot, swap, and other partitions.

Right now it's copying the files from the media partition. That one is going to take the longest since even though I only have a couple recordings it's still got the most data of any of the partitions.

Then I can dig into it and experiment with swapping out some of the files Opus4 talked about. Maybe I can even find where it's got Sage firing up automatically and not allowing it to exit. Actually Sage will exit, but only as part of the shutdown process of pressing the power button.

Keep your fingers crossed.

[dbfresh23]

CTRL + ALT + Backspace doesn't kill X and throw you to a prompt?

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

CTRL + ALT + Backspace doesn't kill X and throw you to a prompt?

Nope.

Also, my meager attempt at a backup didn't work either. Between the MR 5000's drive, my external usb HD, and/or Knoppix there's something hinky in the filesize/hd space calculations. I set up the partitions to match as well as I could with Parted and trying to copy would run out of space on the destination less than 1/3 of the way through on a couple of the partitions that were being reported as fairly small (1.4gb).

So I'm back as square one for now.

Anyone have any guesses where to look for some kind of autoexec file that is firing up sage before any command prompt or desktop shows up?