Blu-ray, HD-DVD, DVD, Don't care?

[Crazedz]

Sorry i plain want to own without downloading and hate DRM.

The industry had a chance to do DRM right in a way that satisfied everybody without being to ristrictive but they botched it up by getting to greedy so i hate it and don't want DRM in anyway. I relize eventually i may have to settle for it but i'll fight it every step of the way they will drag me in kicking and screeming biting and clawing with fists flying first though.

I want the media with no drm no garbage in my way to frustrate me when i just wanna watch my movie here their anywhere after i've bought it. Not some Despoticly Rich Misers with more money then they know what to do with getting in my face about it cause they want to get me to cough up more of what they got to much of to start with.


Im just an old fashioned rebel i guess but i just don't like being ramed twice for the same content.

[ldavis]

Not to be too contrary, and I have plenty of issues with DRM, but they have every right to protect their content in any way they want and make as much money as they can. My problem comes when our government says that breaking the protection is wrong even if I do not violate their copyright (read "fair use" which DMCA officially killed) and tying the hands of all PC and hardware manufacturers to some government mandated protection std. Let the free market decide.

Which brings me to my next point. You will never have to be dragged "kicking and screaming biting and clawing with fists flying" into the DRM age. Read a book.

[malore]

Originally Posted by ldavis

Which brings me to my next point. You will never have to be dragged "kicking and screaming biting and clawing with fists flying" into the DRM age. Read a book.

Unless, it's an ebook, in which case it would also be tied down with DRM.

Maybe book publishers need to plug the analog hole, and get photocopiers to refuse to copy them like the government has already done for money.

[ldavis]

Maybe book publishers need to plug the analog hole, and get photocopiers to refuse to copy them like the government has already done for money.

Maybe they can really plug the analog hole by requiring us to have a plug in cranial implant. That way the data would just be feed directly into our brains. Maybe we could have all our life experiences this way. Ops! That sound at little too Matrix-like

[Jesse]

Hi,

I do not condone piracy. I think that the content owners have every right to protect their "property." I do not rip movies I rent, I do not download tv shows or music from the internet. That being said.....I should be allowed to do anything I want with any media I have legally purchased as long as I do not share it with anyone.

I fear that the broadcast flag will eventually lead to the content owners flagging everything "no copy." The lure of huge revenues from VOD and PPV are just going to be too great.

As for HD DVD and Blue Ray, who cares. DVD's look so good upscaled by my htpc and viewed on my HD plasma that I dont feel the need to switch anytime soon. Looks to me like sony and all the rest of the greedy nimrods behind this are still suffering from a severe case of cranial-rectal inversion.

Jesse

[Mahoney]

If we get to the point where *all* content is available on demand (and I mean really on demand, not ask to download it now and watch it in two hours), with no adverts and the ability to fast forward and rewind, over wireless to any device, and for a reasonable price - I'll be happy enough to have it DRM'd up to the eyeballs. No need ever to copy anything then.

In the meantime it's the control that I want. I want to be able to watch on whichever of my devices I want, with adverts removed. I want to be able to watch the obscure rugby game from 10 years ago that only about 50 people in the world are interested in and that you could never find online or in a DVD store, but which I recorded back then.

[GoldenTiger]

I am sticking with DVD's until they ditch the atrocious, insulting DRM measures put onto the new formats.

[Crazedz]

Originally Posted by ldavis

Not to be too contrary, and I have plenty of issues with DRM, but they have every right to protect their content in any way they want and make as much money as they can. My problem comes when our government says that breaking the protection is wrong even if I do not violate their copyright (read "fair use" which DMCA officially killed) and tying the hands of all PC and hardware manufacturers to some government mandated protection std. Let the free market decide.

Which brings me to my next point. You will never have to be dragged "kicking and screaming biting and clawing with fists flying" into the DRM age. Read a book.

Yeah that's pretty much what i was saying they had a chance to do things right but instead of comming up with a way and means to make everybody happy without screwing fair use and us, but instead they took advantage of having free reign and bought corupt politicians to push through the DMCA and then come out with ever increasing levels of DRM as well as trying to push through new legislation for a broadcast flag and to plug the analog hole and well pretty much anything else they feel they can get away with just(well not just to have us but it seem's like that sometimes) to keep people like us from having a backup of our movies and songs especially when the media can be damaged or destroyed by little hands. So im in complete agreement with you on that so nothing contrary their.

As for not being dragged in kicking and screeming etc.. well in insist on it at least that way i feel like i didn't just give in though i was actually speaking metaphoricaly. I have read plenty of books to many in fact (sounds weird i know) once i start one i literally can't put it down till the end i have to finish it no matter what and that creates problems with work eating sleeping (falling asleep while trying to get in the next page) and family so i rarely do it and then stick to shorter books i can finish in a day or less and then in small portions often a movie is better with my schedule a couple hours and it's over. I'm adicted to reading (well to a good story you might say).

So books aren't a practical solution for me im afraid.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by ldavis

Maybe they can really plug the analog hole by requiring us to have a plug in cranial implant. That way the data would just be feed directly into our brains. Maybe we could have all our life experiences this way. Ops! That sound at little too Matrix-like

You pretty much nailed it on how this thread is gonna end. I had so many discussions with different people about everything regarding the future of digital information and where and how it will ultimately end up, which is when we have the technology to put a chip in the brain, LOL . And it does not mean that the "chip in the brain" theory will solve all problems, it does not. I'm just saying that is where the technology will end up.

[briands]

Is anyone watching HD-DVD or BD through the Sage front end? I guess you could launch the external for watching.

Does AnyDVD-HD help let any existing player play these files? Or does it only negate the requirement for HDCP compliance of your system?

Sorry if this is obvious, but I am a little confused by the requirements for HD-DVD.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by briands

Is anyone watching HD-DVD or BD through the Sage front end? I guess you could launch the external for watching.

I don't think so.

Does AnyDVD-HD help let any existing player play these files?

At the moment, the biggest problem is that Sage (or any DirectShow app) doesn't understand the file system/structure of HD DVDs or Blu-ray, so AACS isn't even an issue.

Or does it only negate the requirement for HDCP compliance of your system?

I'm not really up on that, but I think it might.

Sorry if this is obvious, but I am a little confused by the requirements for HD-DVD.

As with DVD, there are three parts to the HD DVD/Blu-ray puzzle.

First there is the ability to decode the audio/video streams the format supports. With DVD, that's MPEG-2 video and AC3/DTS audio. Both of those formats are well supported by Dshow filters today. With HD DVD/Blu-ray those are, MPEG-2, VC1 and H.264 Video (all relatively well supported via Dshow), and AC3, E-AC3 (DD+), DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master Audio. At the moment, there aren't any Dshow filters that can handle DD+, DTHD, or DTS-HD.

Second, there's the logical structure (containers, menues, etc). Again, with DVD, IFO/VOB/menus are well supported with DShow filters. With HD DVD, there are EVO which are only supported by the Sonic Scenarist filters, and the HDi interactive layer, which only PowerDVD Ultra (but not it's filters) supports. For Blu-ray, it uses m2ts (basically TS stream) and might actually be slightly easier than the EVOB, but the situation is similar for the menu system.

Lastly, there's the encryption/copy protection system. For DVD this is CSS and its well undestood and supported by Dshow filters and by "other" things. For HD DVD and Blu-ray it's AACS, and, it would appear, is in a similar situation to CSS as far as "other" things go, though not to the degree of CSS. BD also potetially has BD+, but that's unknown at this point (not ready I've read).

So far, it seems the 3rd has been tackled. My hope is that now that that's happened, the first two will soon follow. And when they do, I'll be able to start buying HD DVDs

One more note, this is a very, very touchy topic at the moment, we need to be very carefull to keep discussion along these lines within forum bounds. I hope I kept my post within them, I appologize if not

[lobosrul]

Maybe... just maybe with the recent cracks of certain security measures the MPAA/RIAA will get their heads out and realize there is no totally secure DRM. Yahoo and Apple have both publicly said they're against DRM.

I've read somewhere that the cost of DRM can be several times higher than the cost to manufacture and distribute the disk.... maybe they could pass these savings on to their customers and their sales would go up!

I will get into disk based HD when:

1) AACS is gone.
2a) A PC based player for under $200 that FULLY supports both formats.
or 2b) One format clearly has won. I dont expect a disk burner that cheap, just playback.
3) Average costs of movies is no more than $20. Right now they are mostly $30+.

I totally agree HD has been a big dissapointment. It was $70 /month just to get any HD content at all from my cable co, and that was only a few channels and before premiums. One of the big gaffes IMO was not going to an analog anamorphic widescreen system (pal+) like Britain did in the late 90's. I would certainly rather watch movies at full 720x480 than a 4x3 pan and scan, or letterboxed to 360 line. And letterboxing is RARE.

I listed the pros/cons of the local hd channels here on avsforum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9783066

Its quite sad that the best channel in that list doesnt broadcast 5.1 audio and isnt carried by the cable co.

Right now I'm OTA only for TV + DVD's. I'll probably decide between an r5000 or USDTV this summer, depends if USDTV can get ESPN/ESPN2 in actual HD and add NFL Netowrk.

[coryking]

Pardon my french, but unless I can hook it up to my TV with component video jacks, or a VGA/DVI cable they can . No way am I buying a new TV just so they can tell me what I can and cannot do with media I own. Two years later they will decide "Oh, that media format is obsolete and you'll have to buy a NEW TV, and oh yeah, your old media will no longer work; tough luck pal."

My vote? I'll live in a cave before I own DRM.

[stanger89]

Video isn't a problem, there are Dshow decoders for all the codecs already. The remaining problem is the DD+ and Dolby TrueHD audio.

FWIW, what I mean by logical structure isn't the file system, it's the actual movie structure, the menu systems and whatnot. PowerDVD and WinDVD are the only apps at the moment that can deal with that stuff. Though 2 is partially helped because the latest Haali media splitter understands EVO files.

[mightyt]

The first $59 Multi-Format Drive wins !!!

LG has the technology ... Now all we need is the price point ...

[jmiddleton]

You already have a pretty reasonable price point with the XBOX 360 HD-DVD drive at $199.00. On XP you'll need to install Toshiba OEM drivers to see the filesystem. I've read that Vista supports this drive out of the box - though I haven't personally tried this. You will still need aftermarket player software to watch HD movies. Unless you have HDCP compliance issues elsewhere on your system, this is a pretty inexpensive way to watch HD movies.

Personally, I intend to wait until I can buy an HD burner for less than $100.00 - primarily for data backup. One assumes the format wars will be decided by then though the DRM headaches may persist. SD movies look and sound supurb on my system and, for now at least, the headaches associated with HD outweigh the entertainment value for me.

[mike_15]

I intend on waiting for a clear winner,

to that end how many HDTV's are only 720p, mine is.
so 1080p doesn't mean much to me.
In 6+ years I may get another new TV for the living room.

DVD widescreen works well enough for me.

DVD movies $20, DL blanks $1.50
Blueray movies $30+?, blanks $20
prices should come down, but my overall issue with studios are the cost of DVD's and CD's for that matter. There is no reason movies should cost 20-30 and music costs $15-25. older tape type movies cost more to make, more to transport, but cost less to buy?
If movies cost 10-15max and music less than 10 there would be no reason to need DRM because everybody could afford to own it.

I am not a fan of pirating for profit. I do like the idea of being able to make a copy of movies keeping the original safe and giving the kids a copy to scratch up, then make a new copy to scratch when needed.

[phenixdragon]

My roommate bought an HD DVD and I have seen what it looks like on my 1080p screen and it actually doesn't look much better then a standard DVD. It seems like HDTV really comes into good use is for certain TV shows and sporting events. Other then that, I just really don't see the PQ being much better.

And of cousre coming looks awesome in HDTV, such as GRAW2 is freaking amazing looking on the Xbox 360 at 1080p.

I have to say I love how easy you can copy HD DVD to your HDD now and Blu Ray is right around the corner. And sure far their isn' anything the MPAA can do about it. So DRM is stripped.

I hope HD DVD wins as I hate Sony's cocky attitude about everything towards the consumer. But right now HD DVD's problem is that there is no writable HD DVD discs. Blu Ray has them all oevr the place now. HD DVD is going to be hurting if they do not get this out very soon. In fact they already are losing ground beacuse Blu Ray burners and media is out there. I'd buy a HD DVD burner if it was a few hundred bucks with media maybe even being $5 a discs, at least intially. And having hte ability top copy back from my HDD to a blank HD DVD.

[Jesse]

Hi,

Freudian slip?

Jesse

[jkohn]

My roommate bought an HD DVD and I have seen what it looks like on my 1080p screen and it actually doesn't look much better then a standard DVD. It seems like HDTV really comes into good use is for certain TV shows and sporting events. Other then that, I just really don't see the PQ being much better.

I just don't understand how people can say this unless they're just sitting too far away from the TV. Maybe some people just don't really care about image quality that much, but to me the difference between SD and HD is very noticeable.