DirecTv vs. Cable

[mike1961]

DBFresh - a few questions/comments:

First - Yes, I bought the D10-100 boxes today. Now, I'm wondering, do I need to do any hacking or anything to the box itself to make the "Low Speed Data" port in the back work to change the channels or is that all ready to go when I get a cable? You see, the user guide says "this port allows you to connect your DTV Receiver to future services as they become available?" So, I was just wondering it it is ready and if the computer can change the channel on the STB?

Second - where do I find I guess what would be a female RS232 to "telephone jack" serial cable?

Third - I'm still guessing that the D11 box with the USB port just won't work or wasn't really meant to have a connection to easily change the channel on the STB?

Fourth - you said regarding the phone jack: "it's the only way they can charge you for PPV stuff when you order it using the remote. That's what I was saying could be used for making calls.." Right - however, one does not need a phone connection because as you may know, you may also order the PPV via the internet but you're right, via the remote it is the only way.

This is just sooooo frustrating and I hope it is worth it to have the D10. I already figured I would need additional serial ports so I did get an extra PCI card with serial ports on it (there goes yet another PCI slot - I looked to see if Frys had a serial card / modem combo because I needed a modem too but I don't know if anyone even makes such an item).

Thanks again,
Mike

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by mike1961

DBFresh - a few questions/comments:

First - Yes, I bought the D10-100 boxes today. Now, I'm wondering, do I need to do any hacking or anything to the box itself to make the "Low Speed Data" port in the back work to change the channels or is that all ready to go when I get a cable? You see, the user guide says "this port allows you to connect your DTV Receiver to future services as they become available?" So, I was just wondering it it is ready and if the computer can change the channel on the STB?

It should work right out of the box, no modifications needed.

Second - where do I find I guess what would be a female RS232 to "telephone jack" serial cable?

My suggestion would be doing what JereJones suggested. Get a female-female serial cable, cut it in half and crimp an RJ22 end on each half and it will yeild 2 DTV control cables with each serial cable. The way I did it was to go buy a telephone handset cable from the local dollar store and cut it and crimp an RJ45 connection on one end, then use an RJ45 to DB9 converter. Again, JereJones method will give you a cleaner end product.

Third - I'm still guessing that the D11 box with the USB port just won't work or wasn't really meant to have a connection to easily change the channel on the STB?

Don't know yet, I just ordered one - so I'll know soon enough.

Fourth - you said regarding the phone jack: "it's the only way they can charge you for PPV stuff when you order it using the remote. That's what I was saying could be used for making calls.." Right - however, one does not need a phone connection because as you may know, you may also order the PPV via the internet but you're right, via the remote it is the only way.

This is correct, You can call and order PPV or order online. You can actually still order them w/o the phoneline hooked up, they just can't bill you.

This is just sooooo frustrating and I hope it is worth it to have the D10. I already figured I would need additional serial ports so I did get an extra PCI card with serial ports on it (there goes yet another PCI slot - I looked to see if Frys had a serial card / modem combo because I needed a modem too but I don't know if anyone even makes such an item).

I doubt you'll find such a card.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Third - I'm still guessing that the D11 box with the USB port just won't work or wasn't really meant to have a connection to easily change the channel on the STB?

Actually that's exactly what the USB port is for, the D11 installer manual discusses using it for serial control (goes as far as to list compatible USB/serial adapters). Some MythTV users have managed to get it working. You can see here for a very little more info:
http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...al+control+d11

[mike1961]

DBFresh - so you are saying I can control two STB's with one com port? Does this mean when I set up the video source on the first two STB's I use say com1 and on the 3rd and 4th STB I use com2 (or any available com port)? When Sage sends the signal to the com port how can it know which box to change? Also - is there a diagram of some kind on which wires to crimp and use in each jack?

I'm still wondering about the USB integration - keep me updated?

Thanks,
Mike

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by mike1961

DBFresh - so you are saying I can control two STB's with one com port? Does this mean when I set up the video source on the first two STB's I use say com1 and on the 3rd and 4th STB I use com2 (or any available com port)? When Sage sends the signal to the com port how can it know which box to change? Also - is there a diagram of some kind on which wires to crimp and use in each jack?

I'm still wondering about the USB integration - keep me updated?

Thanks,
Mike

NO, 1 STB per com port.

My setup:
Com1 = STB1
Com2 = STB2
Com3 = IR Receiver

www.dtvcontrol.com has the wire diagram that I used. If you're going to use a serial cable as I suggested it may be slightly different, you may want to PM Jere_Jones and ask him what reference he used.

[mike1961]

Okay - now I understand. In fact, the diagram at the website shows

Modular 4P4C adapter wiring
DE9F Modular 4P4C Wire Color
5 1 Black
2 2 Red
3 4 Yellow

But, if I cut the serial cable and the phone cable down the middle then the question is what is the best way to attach them together. I could use electrical tape it's just that phone cable is pretty thin conductor. I'm not sure if a jack like what you used is a better way to go.

Oh - by the way - why are you using one of your com ports with an IR and not using serial like the other two?

Thanks again,
Mike

[dbfresh23]

Either method requires crimping. If you get a serial cable and cut it in half then you don't need a phone cable. If you cut the the serial cable, you just crimp an RJ22 end onto each half. If it'll help I can take a couple of pics of one of my cables to better display my method.

The IR i was referring to is an IR receiver - I use it with my Remote control and Girder - Not to control a STB.

PS. Check your PM

[mike1961]

Modular 4P4C adapter wiring
DE9F Modular 4P4C Wire Color
5 1 Black
2 2 Red
3 4 Yellow

Now I have to figure out which is pin 1 when looking at the modular jack because 1 is black on one side of the modular jack but the colors are reversed at the other end. Any diagrams?

Thanks,
Mike

[mike1961]

Okay - now I see - I can just crimp the RJ22 to the end of the cut serial cable. It's just a question of what wire goes where in the RJ22? Any ideas?

Thanks again,
Mike

[mike1961]

I guess my question is when looking at the back of the D10-100 STB say from left to right are those pins 1-4 or are they pins 1-4 from right to left? Otherwise I can't know which is the Gnd, Transmit, Receive and Null. I'm assuming the null does not need to be wired at all and is not used so that is either pin 3 on the right or pin 3 on the left. But, that seems confusing because if the RJ22 cable were flipped around (if one used a jack to convert from RJ22 to Serial) then it seems like it would not work (or is it not reversable and only works when inserted one way)?

Thanks for the help,
Mike

[mike1961]

Another question (still hoping someone can answer my question about cable wiring in my prior post). When searching google for info on how to wire the cables, I saw a post saying that DTV can automatically upgrade the firmware in the D10-100 and this will break the ability to tune the channels via the serial port. Do you have any info on this and if so, is there a way to disable DTV upgrades for this box (note though: this post was a while back so they may have fixed it and this may not be an issue anymore but I'm not positive)?

http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/digi...=wn_story_top5

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.v...eb2b7f595cbd8b

Thanks again,
Mike

[jptaz]

I have a question / Comment:

1. I do not have a regular phone line nor will I ever...I have vonage VOIP service and was wondering if anyone had DTV or Dish working with this. I know dish charges $5 extra per receiver if there is no phone line available and previously I heard DTV absolutely does not allow it and charges a full fee for each receiver if they are not all connected to a phone line.

2. I have 4 Digital Cable Boxes which I have been controlling with a USB UIRT and Actisys IR Blaster for 3 years now with only 3 tuning failures in that time and those were all my fault because I moved the blasters, but have since secured them such that it never happens. Unless Dish and DTV Boxes are really crappy I see no reason this solution should not continue working if I switch to either service provider.

3. In terms of Quality the Digital Cable boxes look really good even for the analog channels...much better than my PVR 500 tuner looks and I only am using the PVR 500 for 1 analog tuner for channels that I don't care about, over flow when my wife wants to watch something live. Also I record most locals in HD and the locals are the worst in terms of quality on the Cable.

4. Unless DTV and Dish work with VOIP or do not charge a fee for not being connected they are $30+ a month more than my Digital cable for the same service and as I stated I have 4 Digital Cable boxes so I am not saving money not paying rental fees for STBS and that is just getting 4 STBs and I will potentionally lose the 5th SDTV if the cable company puts a filter on the line, but at this point I am thinking that I could live with 4 tuners since I now have the HD Tuners.

John

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Okay - now I see - I can just crimp the RJ22 to the end of the cut serial cable. It's just a question of what wire goes where in the RJ22? Any ideas?

This is what I was suggesting you find out from Jere_Jones since he has done it this way.

Another question (still hoping someone can answer my question about cable wiring in my prior post). When searching google for info on how to wire the cables, I saw a post saying that DTV can automatically upgrade the firmware in the D10-100 and this will break the ability to tune the channels via the serial port. Do you have any info on this and if so, is there a way to disable DTV upgrades for this box (note though: this post was a while back so they may have fixed it and this may not be an issue anymore but I'm not positive)?

This issue has been resolved so it is no longer a problem.

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by jptaz

I have a question / Comment:

1. I do not have a regular phone line nor will I ever...I have vonage VOIP service and was wondering if anyone had DTV or Dish working with this. I know dish charges $5 extra per receiver if there is no phone line available and previously I heard DTV absolutely does not allow it and charges a full fee for each receiver if they are not all connected to a phone line.

I have never heard of any kind of discount for the phoneline being hooked up. To the best of my knowledge it's $5/mo per receiver no matter what. I had my DTV receivers hooked up to the phoneline until about 5 seconds after the installer left, been unhooked ever since - about 3 years.

2. I have 4 Digital Cable Boxes which I have been controlling with a USB UIRT and Actisys IR Blaster for 3 years now with only 3 tuning failures in that time and those were all my fault because I moved the blasters, but have since secured them such that it never happens. Unless Dish and DTV Boxes are really crappy I see no reason this solution should not continue working if I switch to either service provider.

Serial control of a STB is MUCH faster then IR control. IR control will work with either provider's boxes, it's just not as nice was serial control with DTV boxes.

4. Unless DTV and Dish work with VOIP or do not charge a fee for not being connected they are $30+ a month more than my Digital cable for the same service and as I stated I have 4 Digital Cable boxes so I am not saving money not paying rental fees for STBS and that is just getting 4 STBs and I will potentionally lose the 5th SDTV if the cable company puts a filter on the line, but at this point I am thinking that I could live with 4 tuners since I now have the HD Tuners.

If DirecTV w/ 4 STBs is $30 more a month then your Digital cable - you're getting one awesome deal on your Analog oops.. "Digital" Cable. I'm paying DTV for 4 STBs right now and it's about $15 less then the local cable company charges for Digital cable w/ 1 STB. My additional DTV STBs are $5/mo whether there is a phoneline going into it or not.

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by jptaz

3. In terms of Quality the Digital Cable boxes look really good even for the analog channels...much better than my PVR 500 tuner looks and I only am using the PVR 500 for 1 analog tuner for channels that I don't care about,
John

I have a question about that - you said it looks better than your PVR 500 but isn't that comparing "apples and oranges." In other words - you said you were using 250 cards with your digital receivers. Now, if you used the 500 card with your digital receivers (rather than an analog cable) then would it look just a good? I'm wondering what you are using on the 250 card for input (tuner, composite, svideo)? Also, if you used the same inputs on the 500 with your digital receiver - would it look just as nice?

Thanks
Mike

[jptaz]

Mike,

Sorry I was not clear...my point was that the "Digital" Cable Box tuner is far superior to that of either the PVR 250 or 500.

3 PVR 250s and 1 PVR 500 are being fed via Svideo cable input and 1 PVR 500 input is Coax (Direct from the wall not from a Box). Comparing the PVR 500 Svideo input from the Digital Cable Box watching the same Analog Channel via the Coax and the SVideo version is far superior..thus the STB tuner must be much better than the PVR 250 or 500.

In fact the "Digital" Cable box channels via Svideo looks way better than a coax being fed directly to any of the TVs in our house. I am not sure what the tuner in the boxes is doing so much better than other tuners, but it just looks worlds better.

Now the same analog channel from the svideo still looks bad in comparision to the same Channel in HD, so no I am not blind or retarded, I do know what a clean digital pciture can look like.

dbfresh23,

So just I understand correctly...You have 4 DTV STBs NONE of which are physically plugged into any phone line and DTV is only charging you $5 per additional receiver to mirror the service from the main receiver...so you pay the base service fee + $15 for your setup?

Part of my $30 adtvange for Digital Cable over DTV or Dish is the requirement for a real phone line which when asked they all say they require in fact this is drirctly from the DTV website:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/...idential.jsp#4

Q: If I have more than one receiver, do I pay a full monthly subscription for each receiver?
A: No. It’s only $4.99 a month for programming on the second and each additional receiver in your home, provided all your receivers are continuously connected to a land-based phone line.

I have read that some people have actually been charged a full subscription for each receiver they did not have connected to a phone line and when I talked to a sales rep at DTV he said...1. they do not support VOIP and 2. There will be a full fee for not having it connected to a phone. In the case of Dish it is an additional $5 per additional receiver not connected to a land based phone line and my buddy who just got dish said that is what he is being charged...he has no phone and 2 boxes...he is charged $10 extra because of this.

Maybe because you have had your DTV boxes for so long they do not have a newer firmware that inforces these rules and maybe if I get the boxes I will be lucky and not be charged, but the official documented stance of DTV and Dish that they need to physically connected to a land based phone line or it will cost you and in my case just having a land based phone line will cost any way. If this was not the case the diference is just under $10 and that for a true digital picture is worthwhile, but $30+ to pay the evil empire that is SBC/ATT for a lousy service that would only be there for DTV or Dish is not.

Oh and yes I get a very good deal in my area because we have a choice of either Comcast or Wide Open West...We have Wide Open West...and have for 4+ years now....our rates have stayed reasonable and they have only raised them a little in that time and the service has been excellent. Even if I went to DTV or Dish I would still be getting the Cable Modem through them so that is part of the deal too. When taken as a whole...the combo of High Speed internet, Telephone Service via Vonage, and TV Service the combo is hard to be price wise.

John

[stanger89]

Of course there's also this page: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/custom..._phoneline.jsp

That indicates that they want you to hook up (but imply you don't need to):

Get the most out of your entertainment experience by keeping your
DIRECTV® Receiver connected to a land-based phone-line.

How does staying connected help you?

It allows you to order pay per view movies and events with your remote control and avoid phone-order assistance fees. You'll also be able to order other special programming and products through your on-screen guide such as Local Channels and DIRECTV — The Guide®.

Your sports subscription packages will be mirrored to the other DIRECTV Receivers in your house.

You'll be able to upgrade to our advanced receivers such as the DIRECTV® DVR.

You'll be plugged into our system for future interactive capabilities.

It might depend on what your programming is. I'll have to give them a call and verify. I have no "normal" phone, only a Cell, I will not be subscribing to a service that requires a phoneline. Nor do I really want to subscribe to Mediacrap.

[jptaz]

I would love to go to Dish or DTV for the better quality, but while their official documentation indicates that it is required to not get charged a bundle they are not suplanting my Cable provider. Just because they are lax on enforcement doesn't mean they can't decide out of the blue to start enforcing...I have heard others have to call and have boxes need to be reactivated every 90 days if not connected. If they provided me with a seperate TOS that explicitly says that this requirement is being waived and they will never deactive my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Receivers because they are not calling home then I am so getting one of them.

John