Choppy HD video in Sage - Page 2

pgitta · #21 07-26-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadman

Ok the fse did not make any difference, still choppy. I do have my resolution set for 1776X1000 for my TV. Does that make any difference? Why will Zoom (using the same NVIDIA codecs) or Windows Media player play these fine without the choppiness?

Chad

At this point, most all the likely causes have been mentioned here. In my opinion, if you can play the content in other applications smoothly, but not Sage, then Sage is NOT using the same decoder the others are or it WOULD be playing smoothly. After all, Sage is just another "media player"

I would do a clean re-install. My setup works fine in HD with virtually the same hardware, so Sage cannot be blamed.

Also, you're rolling the dice having ANY other applications loaded but Sage. (Zoom, WinAMP, Word, Tetris, screensavers, porn dialers, AOL instant messenger...whatever)

It should be: Windows + Sage + tuners + drivers + DirectX + Purevideo. That's it. Nothing else.

Load any other programs, and you just start introducing potential problems. Not saying it WONT work, just now you have other factors in the mix that no one here could possibly troubleshoot.

Whatever you do, don't try to use your SageTV server as a workstation.

chadman · #22 07-28-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgitta

At this point, most all the likely causes have been mentioned here. In my opinion, if you can play the content in other applications smoothly, but not Sage, then Sage is NOT using the same decoder the others are or it WOULD be playing smoothly. After all, Sage is just another "media player"

I would do a clean re-install. My setup works fine in HD with virtually the same hardware, so Sage cannot be blamed.

Also, you're rolling the dice having ANY other applications loaded but Sage. (Zoom, WinAMP, Word, Tetris, screensavers, porn dialers, AOL instant messenger...whatever)

It should be: Windows + Sage + tuners + drivers + DirectX + Purevideo. That's it. Nothing else.

Load any other programs, and you just start introducing potential problems. Not saying it WONT work, just now you have other factors in the mix that no one here could possibly troubleshoot.

Whatever you do, don't try to use your SageTV server as a workstation.

I do appreciate the advice, but I completely disagree. Zoom player uses less memory and CPU than Sage when playing HD content. I am sure the same decoders are being used and the resolution is the same. I find it hard to believe that Sage is not at fault when I know another media player can play the content fine. I am still happy with Sage, but I do believe I am one of many that have this problem playing HD content with vrm9 enabled. I would understand if my computer had some low specs or if another media player was having the same issue. I do disagree that “Sage is just another media player”. That might be true, but you can not say that every media player in the same class and expect the exact same performance just because they are using the same decoders. That is just like saying every car with a 350 small block will do 0-60 in the same amount of time. We know that is not true:-)

Chad

Humanzee · #23 07-28-2006, 11:58 PM

I fixed mine by increasing the graphics core speed more than the optimum recomended amount. check my thread for details.
http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ad.php?t=19210
I havn't tried this at 1080p yet, My sets only 37" anyway so 1080 was kind of overkill from 10 ft away. 720 is good for now.

Goodspike · #24 07-29-2006, 01:14 PM

The next time I update my drivers (prior to football season starting), I'm going to set up a 720p resolution, and see if that helps the stuttering (I'd just let the TV convert it to 1080i).

If anyone wants to get ambitious, you could see if that makes a difference.

I only have a stuttering problem once the recording gets to be longer than about 2 hours, so I could just switch resolutions for such programs.

chadman · #25 07-30-2006, 08:24 AM

I might have found a possible fix to my problem. I just installed the Omega drivers and I am no longer able to see the choppy playback. I still need to do some more testing, but it is looking good so far. Previously I was using ATI’s most recent drivers without the Control Center installed. I am also able to use FSE with the problems I had before, but did not get a chance to test that for very long.

Chad

Goodspike · #26 07-30-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadman

I might have found a possible fix to my problem. I just installed the Omega drivers and I am no longer able to see the choppy playback.

Well, I think we're mainly looking for a fix that still allows you to see the video.

CPA · #27 08-11-2006, 08:59 AM

It would appear that I have finally gotten rid of the choppy HD video issue in Sage thanks to numerous bits of advice from this forum.

Here is the equipment involved:
MSI nForce4 K8 Platinum MB
1 GB of Patriot Memory
Leadtek Nvidia 6600GT-128MB (84.21 drivers, overclocked)
Chaintek AV710 (flashed to a Prodigy 7.1)
Nvidia A/V Decoders (223)
Hitachi 36" Direct View HDTV (with both VGA and Component inputs)

I am running in dual view mode 800x600 to vga and 1920x1080i to component. The single thing that seem to have the most effect on the choppy video was making the component input the primary monitor (not the vga input) . It took some painful configuring in the Nvidia desktop management to get all the windows and apps to open to the correct monitor, but in the end it was worth it.

Second biggest effect came from changing the audio renderer. In Sage I was given the options of choosing Prodigy 7.1 or QVE for Prodigy 7.1. I had been staying away from the QVE setting because I figured it would be adding EQ (Q sound) in the chain which may mess things up. Much to my suprise, choosing QVE completely smoothed out my video. It does not seem to matter which audio decoder I use, all are smooth and work. I never would have guessed! Last night I watched the Colts/Rams gane on Fox HD and it was flawless.

We'll see how long it lasts. I am a constant tweeker so I will probably, eventually, inevitably mess things up again. I will keep you posted. Hope this helps anyone else struggling with the choppy video issues.

bbig119 · #28 08-31-2006, 01:37 PM

Very useful bits of information. I'm having very similar problems here on similar system.

Venice 3000+, Gigabyte 6600gt, 1gig ram, etc etc......

Playback is fine through sage when using overlay, but the issue with that is that SD recordings clearly look wores than with VMR9. HD quality is better win VMR, but acceptable in overlay-- certainly worth it to have smooth playback. Still, I'd like to be able to use VMR to get the higher quality playback on SD stuff.

Like most of you who already posted, I am able to playback recorded HD content perfectly with other media players(zoom, MPC). I've tried many suggestions, but certainly not all as everyone has their own list of things to try.

My question is this. The posts on stuttering seem to involve mostly people with 6600 cards. I realize that hardware shouldn't be to blame in this instance given that HD is fine in other apps, but if I were to upgrade the video card to a 7600, or high end ATI would this cure the problem?

I'm not sure I'm willing to drop the money for it yet, but it might be worth an experiment from a store with a good return policy. Before I jump in, I wanted some opinions first. Ideas, thoughts and comments appreciated.

blade · #29 08-31-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbig119

Very useful bits of information. I'm having very similar problems here on similar system.

Venice 3000+, Gigabyte 6600gt, 1gig ram, etc etc......

Playback is fine through sage when using overlay, but the issue with that is that SD recordings clearly look wores than with VMR9. HD quality is better win VMR, but acceptable in overlay-- certainly worth it to have smooth playback. Still, I'd like to be able to use VMR to get the higher quality playback on SD stuff.

Like most of you who already posted, I am able to playback recorded HD content perfectly with other media players(zoom, MPC). I've tried many suggestions, but certainly not all as everyone has their own list of things to try.

My question is this. The posts on stuttering seem to involve mostly people with 6600 cards. I realize that hardware shouldn't be to blame in this instance given that HD is fine in other apps, but if I were to upgrade the video card to a 7600, or high end ATI would this cure the problem?

Are you using FSE? I ask because the 6600s aren't capable of doing VMR 1080i and even struggle at 720p without it.

I don't have HD, but have played some downloaded sample clips and my 6600GT has no problems playing back 1080i HD ts files in Sage. Of course I have no idea if the clips are representative of playing back actual HD broadcasts.

bbig119 · #30 08-31-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade

Are you using FSE? I ask because the 6600s aren't capable of doing VMR 1080i and even struggle at 720p without it.

I don't have HD, but have played some downloaded sample clips and my 6600GT has no problems playing back 1080i HD ts files in Sage. Of course I have no idea if the clips are representative of playing back actual HD broadcasts.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I've tried FSE, multiple times. Every few months I read a thread about the stuttering, or just get annoyed by it and decide to tackle the problem again going through many of the same set of suggestions over and over with the main difference being new drivers/software sometimes. FSE has never made a difference for me. And what's funny is that while I'm willing to believe that the 6600gt struggles with 1080i content, why does it look SO much smoother in other media players like zoom or WMP? If sage is doing what its told to do, it should be using the same nvidia decoders that zoom is using, although I've tried every decoder setting I can think of.

The one thing I haven't explored is the aspect ratio. I have used the nvidia software for the video card to adjust overscan settings on my TV, but then also used Sage setup to tweak the screen size when in full screen. Its worth a shot when I get the chance, but HD in Sage stutters when I'm ouputing to my LCD 19" monitor, or when going to the TV(I have DVI->HMDI to my Samsung DLP, and VGA to the LCD; I toggle between displays, but never run in dual view or clone mode).

In my mind everything points to Sage. Is it a bug/problem in the software, or something screwy with my settings/configuration? I don't know. Will brute force of a faster video card overcome the stuttering though? I have no idea.

Again, thanks for the feedback

camus · #31 08-31-2006, 03:05 PM

I am having the same problem with from what I can tell occurs only with 1080i content.
Real quick jerkiness, sort of a fluttering. This disappears with FSE enabled, it seems odd that I only have this problem in Sage with FSE disabled, it is not like my system is getting taxed from HD. I guess I don't mind using FSE, it can be a PITA when it acts up, not windowing it does help. For me Overlay is not an option, everything looks much better in VMR9.

I am using the most recent versions of Nvidia's PV, I might switch back to .186, give it a shot.

bbig119 · #32 08-31-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camus

I am having the same problem with from what I can tell occurs only with 1080i content.
Real quick jerkiness, sort of a fluttering. This disappears with FSE enabled, it seems odd that I only have this problem in Sage with FSE disabled, it is not like my system is getting taxed from HD. I guess I don't mind using FSE, it can be a PITA when it acts up, not windowing it does help. For me Overlay is not an option, everything looks much better in VMR9.

What are your system specs?
I know that with a little digging I can find the answer out, but I'm going to be lazy and ask. How do you know what programs are 1080i and what is 720p? I seem to remember that stations broadcast in one format or the other.

camus · #33 08-31-2006, 03:20 PM

Check my sigline.

The 1080i is the only thing I could come up with, I have trouble with NBC and WGN which I know do 1080i, no problem with ABC, which I know is 720p. I haven't had any issue with PBS.

blade · #34 08-31-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camus

I am having the same problem with from what I can tell occurs only with 1080i content.
Real quick jerkiness, sort of a fluttering. This disappears with FSE enabled, it seems odd that I only have this problem in Sage with FSE disabled, it is not like my system is getting taxed from HD. I guess I don't mind using FSE, it can be a PITA when it acts up, not windowing it does help. For me Overlay is not an option, everything looks much better in VMR9.

HD is taxing your system, it's taxing your video card. Here is an explanation of what FSE is doing.

camus · #35 09-01-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade

HD is taxing your system, it's taxing your video card. Here is an explanation of what FSE is doing.

I doubt it, the clips play just fine in other apps, my CPU hits 40% usage tops usually stinking at 30%, the VG card is fine. I really don't think think it is a lack of HP, it is either an Nvidia w/ Sage issue or a Sage issue, I understand what FSE is doing, but I shouldn't need it for HD playback.

blade · #36 09-02-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camus

I doubt it, the clips play just fine in other apps, my CPU hits 40% usage tops usually stinking at 30%, the VG card is fine. I really don't think think it is a lack of HP, it is either an Nvidia w/ Sage issue or a Sage issue, I understand what FSE is doing, but I shouldn't need it for HD playback.

Are you sure the other apps aren't using FSE? I thought TheatreTek, MCE, and a few others all used FSE or something similar.

CPU usage has nothing to do with how taxed your video card is. My cpu usage is only around 20-30% on SD content upscaled to 1080i and I still get stuttering without FSE. I don't know much about the 7600GS, but it was well known that the 6xxx series cards could not do 1080i without FSE enabled.

My understanding is core clock speed determines PureVideo performance. For example a 7600GT outperforms a 7900GT with PureVideo due to the higher clock speed. Your card's clock speed is something like 400mhz? I believe my 6600GT is +500mhz. I'm not certain how clock speed and performance compare from the 7600gs to the 6600gt, but I believe you may be greatly over estimating your video card.

camus · #37 09-06-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade

Are you sure the other apps aren't using FSE? I thought TheatreTek, MCE, and a few others all used FSE or something similar.

CPU usage has nothing to do with how taxed your video card is. My cpu usage is only around 20-30% on SD content upscaled to 1080i and I still get stuttering without FSE. I don't know much about the 7600GS, but it was well known that the 6xxx series cards could not do 1080i without FSE enabled.

My understanding is core clock speed determines PureVideo performance. For example a 7600GT outperforms a 7900GT with PureVideo due to the higher clock speed. Your card's clock speed is something like 400mhz? I believe my 6600GT is +500mhz. I'm not certain how clock speed and performance compare from the 7600gs to the 6600gt, but I believe you may be greatly over estimating your video card.

Yep, it is 400MHZ, maybe the card is underpowered, I played the same clips back in WMP and VLC, no stuttering at all, with WMP using the same PV settings both fullscreen and windowed. I really don't mind using FSE in Sage other than it doesn't play nice when coming out of standy and I use a different program for audio, so if I want to listen to music I pretty much have to disable FSE before getting out of Sage. I think getting stuttering upscaling SD is a different can of worms.

Polypro · #38 09-06-2006, 10:23 AM

How 'bout this one: (Detroit HD) FOX 720p is perfect, ABC 720p jerks (not signal strength related)...????

All 1080i jerks. I've overclocked my 6600GT to 465 Core 1.14 Memory, 2D settings (470/1.15 is max). FSE enabled. I'm wondering if the settings in the Fusion app have anything to do with how Sage displays. I'm still chasing this one.

P

doublebogey · #39 09-06-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polypro

How 'bout this one: (Detroit HD) FOX 720p is perfect, ABC 720p jerks (not signal strength related)...????

All 1080i jerks. I've overclocked my 6600GT to 465 Core 1.14 Memory, 2D settings (470/1.15 is max). FSE enabled. I'm wondering if the settings in the Fusion app have anything to do with how Sage displays. I'm still chasing this one.

P

Detroit HD Fox 720p is perfect for me, as was ABC. I had problems with NBC 720p. I ended up changing to a default renderer with Overlay, and everything works fine. But.... couldn't get audio using Pure Video Decoder, so I switched that to the Intervideo decoder, and audio returned. That's even wierder because I had audio with the PureVideo decoder before I switched HD ota tuners.

Phil

Polypro · #40 09-07-2006, 08:34 AM

Disabling Vertical Sync in the 84.21 drivers gets rid of the jerkiness, but introduces other anomolies. Not a solution. I want to try to find a way to BOB to 540p. My display may be the problem...my firmware has a bug that requires me to run at 53.307Hz to get rid of Judder (JudderTest).

P

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