Some Vista Media Center Q&A...

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by heffe2001

No, it's definitely illegal, under the DMCA. You are using a program to break the encryption (protection). You don't have the rights to do that with any dvd, unless it's un-encrypted content (say something you did yourself).

Ripping DVDs isn't illegal, only breaking the encryption is. You are allowed to copy the DVD as long as you do not break the encryption, but it's basically impossible to do so at the consumer level. So it's a catch-22 and it's all BS.

But the DMCA really has nothing to do with the law, or at least it was a mistake that no one saw, which basically allowed a federal judge in the Northern District Federal Court to create her own version of what the DMCA was intended for. So it only became illegal when MPAA went after 321 Studios and shut down their software that did it. Which the ruling said it's legit to copy DVDs for personal use, just it's illegal to break the CSS, hence the catch-22.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

No you cannot, you will need to buy an entire PC that has been certified by CableLabs.

ATI has stated in the past that you will be able to buy their's off the shelf at some point. But I think idea I would go with is not at first but at some point you will be able to and really, you will just have to wait and see.

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

ATI has stated in the past that you will be able to buy their's off the shelf at some point. But I think idea I would go with is not at first but at some point you will be able to and really, you will just have to wait and see.

Just because you can buy one off the shelf doesn't mean you'll be able to use it in a PC that hasn't been Cable Labs certified. ATI has absolutely no say in it.

[phenixdragon]

As of right now with the current build of Vista, it works flawlessly. Maybe MSFT will create something to stop it from working, but right now if you plug the device in Vista sees it as TV tuner.

So what you are saying is not true up to this point and I doubt they will ever do something to block it.

I only see CableLabs telling ATI no that they can not sell it over the shelf which means the only way to get it is through a prebuilt system. That's most likley what will happen.

And the OCUR does not have to be certified. CableLabs says the computer has to be certified. Basically CableLabs say only prebuild computers will come with the gear to capture it but ATI has say OCUR will be over the shelf at some point. So who knows. But in time it all will be over the shelf as it will hurt companies beyond players like Dell and HP.

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

As of right now with the current build of Vista, it works flawlessly. Maybe MSFT will create something to stop it from working, but right now if you plug the device in Vista sees it as TV tuner.

So what you are saying is not true up to this point and I doubt they will ever do something to block it.

I only see CableLabs telling ATI no that they can not sell it over the shelf which means the only way to get it is through a prebuilt system. That's most likley what will happen.

And the OCUR does not have to be certified. CableLabs says the computer has to be certified. Basically CableLabs say only prebuild computers will come with the gear to capture it but ATI has say OCUR will be over the shelf at some point. So who knows. But in time it all will be over the shelf as it will hurt companies beyond players like Dell and HP.

You should read up on the technology a bit more. First, ATI's OCUR device IS CableLabs certified as required by CableLabs. Cablecards and cablecard readers such as ATI's OCUR and certified HTPCs will all have unique numbers like a mac address on a network card. Cable companies will not activate one that has not been certified. ATI can sell them on the retail shelf all they want, but unless they hook it up to a certified HTPC with a valid certifiecation ID, the cable company won't activate it. It's not just a matter of running down to the cable company and picking up a card, they actually have to enter your device information into their system - this is also the same reason you cannot just take a cablecard out of one tv and plug it into another. You would need to call the cable company and tell them you are switching tv's so they can update their system. I never said that it wouldn't show up as a tv tuner, of course it would provided you install the correct drivers. I just said that it wouldn't work, meaning show a tv signal. So while you can doubt they'll ever block it all you want, fact is the "block" is already in place.

[AngelofDeth]

So what will constitute a "certified" HTPC? Will the CableCo be able to see if you change the RAM, video card, etc after its already been activated?

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

You should read up on the technology a bit more. First, ATI's OCUR device IS CableLabs certified as required by CableLabs. Cablecards and cablecard readers such as ATI's OCUR and certified HTPCs will all have unique numbers like a mac address on a network card. Cable companies will not activate one that has not been certified. ATI can sell them on the retail shelf all they want, but unless they hook it up to a certified HTPC with a valid certifiecation ID, the cable company won't activate it. It's not just a matter of running down to the cable company and picking up a card, they actually have to enter your device information into their system - this is also the same reason you cannot just take a cablecard out of one tv and plug it into another. You would need to call the cable company and tell them you are switching tv's so they can update their system. I never said that it wouldn't show up as a tv tuner, of course it would provided you install the correct drivers. I just said that it wouldn't work, meaning show a tv signal. So while you can doubt they'll ever block it all you want, fact is the "block" is already in place.

FYI Bro, a HTPC is 100% certified which means uhhh...every peice of equipment is certified that is it. Just like with any other major certification, such as lets say if you had a HDTPC that is THX certified, it's not just the sound card that has to be, it's the whole box. This is what I am talking about so please don't try nit picking.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by AngelofDeth

So what will constitute a "certified" HTPC? Will the CableCo be able to see if you change the RAM, video card, etc after its already been activated?

So far the talk is basically you would buy a HTPC that is certified, then you could upgrade all you want but no one really knows what the situation will be. A PC is a PC, so technically it's possible to upgrade, just a matter if they will block it. Personally I woudl spend the money to get a new Vista box with CableCard (at least dual) but if I can't upgrade it then screw it.

[dbfresh23]

Yes the entire HTPC will need to be certified as a whole unit. But the OCUR device is also certified. Don't believe me? Go to cable labs website and take a look at the pdf of all CableLabs certified devices - just search for ATI, it's there - uh bro

[AngelofDeth]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Yes the entire HTPC will need to be certified as a whole unit. But the OCUR device is also certified. Don't believe me? Go to cable labs website and take a look at the pdf of all CableLabs certified devices - just search for ATI, it's there - uh bro

Well, seems to me what they say, and what they do/enforce could be two different things. Just have to wait and see how it plays out... If DirecTV/Dish introduce PCI/E cards with less restrictions it might be a moot point anyway.

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by AngelofDeth

Well, seems to me what they say, and what they do/enforce could be two different things. Just have to wait and see how it plays out... If DirecTV/Dish introduce PCI/E cards with less restrictions it might be a moot point anyway.

Enforce? You must not have many dealings with cable companies. They enfoce as much as they can possibly get away with, that's the whole reason for the certification process to begin with. As for DirecTV it sounds like they won't be releasing actual tuner cards for PCs, it seems like they will sell STBs that have usb ports that hook up to the pc and then the STB acts as a tuner, basically how firewire works on cable STBs.