Video Stutter with v6

[blade]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Ok, so my stuttering is severe with 1080i source material and unnoticeable with 720p.

However, if I switch to Nvidia decoder's "Film" deinterlacing mode, 1080i is almost watchable. It still stutters, but it's nowhere near as bad. (The deinterlacing sucks, though.)

To me, this feels like progress. Something that previously worked very nicely in Sage is no longer working for me on this client, but having narrowed it down to 1080i is comforting. This client is a Radeon 9000 Mobility, BTW.

I don't have a clue how the Nvidia Decoder interacts with ATI cards, but with Nvidia cards setting it to Video, Automatic or Smart increases "Video" from 30 fps to 60 fps (with Automatic this is only true if the content is flagged as video or with Smart when it is actually video). So if the card isn't capable of doing 60 fps with 1080i content you're going to get stuttering. When selecting "Film" it doesn't double it so the card is only having to do 30 fps to get smooth playback, but as you found out the deinterlacing is terrible.

Many people say they can't playback 1080i smoothly, which I would bet isn't entirely true. If I had to guess most probably can't playback 1080i "video" content (60 fps with a Nvidia card no clue about ATI). Playing back 1080i "film" content is pretty easy with an Nvidia card because it only needs 24 fps for smooth playback.

Using Smart mode with a Nvidia card that does IVTC and Bad Edit Detection on HD would probably eliminate a lot of people's problem with 1080i because if the HD shows are anything like the SD ones the vast majority of content would then be played back at 24 fps instead of 60 fps.

I'm no expert, but IMO what Nvidia needs to do is include Bad Edit Detection and IVTC for HD material on all of their cards and do away with the 60 fps crap for video. For SD it's fine, but it really chokes many cards when dealing with HD.

I really wish others would use FRAPS so they could give more detailed info on frame rates and stuttering. I've been able to replicate my results repeatedly on a 6600gt, 6200, and 6150. Unfortunately no one else seems to be doing the same thing or at least they don't post their results. So what I said could be B.S., but it appears to hold true for me.

[salsbst]

Thanks, blade.

Originally Posted by blade

I really wish others would use FRAPS...

I promise to give this a try tomorrow when the wife is at the gym!

[Narflex]

I had a new theory on this yesterday after analyzing more of the code diffs between V5 and V6. For those of you with stuttering in V6 that did not have it in V5; please try setting your aspect ratio mode to 'Fill'.

There's a new code path that gets executed on every frame render when using VMR9 in V6 that wasn't there in V5. That code path doesn't get executed when using the 'Fill' aspect ratio mode (it has to do with pixel aspect ratio correction).

Let me know.

[IncredibleHat]

Well, to give my results on that, I only use 16x9 and Source as the two aspects I toggle between (with one button).

No troubles here. I don't do fill because it makes a mess of the image size

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by Narflex

I had a new theory on this yesterday after analyzing more of the code diffs between V5 and V6. For those of you with stuttering in V6 that did not have it in V5; please try setting your aspect ratio mode to 'Fill'.

There's a new code path that gets executed on every frame render when using VMR9 in V6 that wasn't there in V5. That code path doesn't get executed when using the 'Fill' aspect ratio mode (it has to do with pixel aspect ratio correction).

Let me know.

It *might* fix or partially alleviate my problem. Unfortunately, in trying to fix the problem originally, I think I may have installed a version of the Radeon drivers (Omega) that causes its own problems, which I would describe as micro stutter and tearing along the right edge of the screen (only on HD material). I think I may have a system backup from before my video driver experiment, which I'll try to dig up to see if that completes the picture.

[Ron]

The CBS 1080i broadcast of the football game, shortly, will be a perfect test for Narflex' theory.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Narflex

I had a new theory on this yesterday after analyzing more of the code diffs between V5 and V6. For those of you with stuttering in V6 that did not have it in V5; please try setting your aspect ratio mode to 'Fill'.

There's a new code path that gets executed on every frame render when using VMR9 in V6 that wasn't there in V5. That code path doesn't get executed when using the 'Fill' aspect ratio mode (it has to do with pixel aspect ratio correction).

Let me know.

Still stutters when ratio set to "Fill". Thanks for trying.

I have a support ticket in and am working with your programmers and developers. They took a break while attending CES.

[Keenan]

Wow, I hadn't even used my Sage system in weeks due to this problem, just tried Narflex's suggestion and it made a huge difference.

At first is was as bad as ever, but I paused, rewinded about a minute and that made all the difference. Still evaluating to make sure I'm not missing any stuttering as in my mind, this is an all or nothing type of problem, looking "better" doesn't cut it, it has to be 100%. So far, so good though.

I'm getting that "live" look now instead of that 40 year old NFL Films look.

I'm afraid to change the channel...

Flesh tones are still to red and I'm not sure how to fix that.

Narflex, not to deflate your balloon, but I had the stuttering problem in 5 as well as 6, so I'm not sure what that means as far as your theory.

[Goodspike]

I'm a V5 and V6 stutterer too, and I do notice a difference. It's better with the change, but still not perfect.

I continue to think my issue is more hard drive related, since it's affected by file size.

[Keenan]

Still looking good here, even turned the channel to another 1080i channel(a cooking show, couldn't see any stuttering, but it's not good material for checking that anyways) and turned back to football and it's still good, didn't have to buffer this time either.

I know it's the wrong thread, but can anyone tell me how to adjust the hue with the Nvidia decoders, the red fleshtones are bothering me.

[Ron]

I tried Keenan's earlier suggestion of leaving some in the buffer, but still no better for me.

Hopefully the support guys will find something from the debug logs I sent them from v5 and v6.

[cychou]

I can see a big improvement when switcing the audio decoder from Nvidia to Mpeg Audio on my system, which almost make 1080i watchable.

Changing Aspect Ratio to Fill does not fix the stutter 100% for me.


Vincent

[astribli]

Changing to Fill mode did it. Here is my scenario:

1. A new user. Never had Sage TV until about 2 weeks ago.

2. Initial install was with a Hauppauge 150 using cable. Everything seemed to work fine using the trial software so went ahead and bought Sage TV version 6. Rest of system is AMD Sempron 3100, ECS nForce3-a motherboard w/1.25GB, 300 GB SATA drive, ATI RADEON 9550 w/256 AGP graphics card.

3. Saw that everyone talked so highly of the nVidia PureVideo decoder I installed the trial. Seems to lower the CPU but otherwise looks the same.

4. Now for the fun part. Installed the new Hauppauge WIN-HVM 1600. Stuttering all over the place. Worse than that CPU would go to 100% on certain channels and when trying to view the EPG program guide. Found out that if I change from VMR9 to Overlay, problem was better. Using the nVidia PureVideo brought CPU back to around 40-50% viewin signals from HDTV tuner.

5. Problem was that when I went to full screen, blamo. Video playback error 4, bla bla bla.

6. Contacted Hauppauge tech support, which was a total waste of time as the guy said it was so new he didn't have a clue. Great customer service. Not! Anyway, I digress.

7. Took the Hauuppauge 1600 back and got the new ATI 650 HDTV card. Same problem. Using nVidia PureVideo, Overlay mode, switch to full screen, ka-blamo.

8. Tried the suggestion using FILL mode and that did it! Thinking back, when I first was testing using the Hauppauge 150 card, I was using FILL mode most of the time to help stretch the picture to fit my 16x9 43" Hitachi TV. When I put in the HDTV tuner card (either the Hauppauge 1600 or ATI 650), I switched it back to regular 16x9 mode.

So, still doesn't explain why I can't use VMR9, as that makes it choppy/stuttering and high CPU, but using Fill mode seems to have solved the problem.

In addition, I didn't know what FSE mode was (maybe people could post a sticky of acronyms for newbies so we know what the heck you are all talking about?) but found it under Advanced. If I turn that back on, even using Fill mode, when switching back to full screen, ka-blamo, it crashes the video again.

Seems there is definitely something wrong with modes except FILL, and FSE.

By the way, it seems most of you are using nVidia graphics cards, but my problems were EXACTLY the same using ATI card.

Hope that helps confirm FILL mode fixes the problem,at least in my case.

[MTuckman]

Jeff,

Changed to FILL and it did seem to make a difference with the stuttering. Only problem I have now, is that my SD programs no longer stretch to fill the 16:9 screen. I have changed it back to SOURCE and the stuttering returns to a degree, but still couldn't get the SD programs to stretch out.

But most importantly, everyone in the house is more than willing to leave the black bars on the left and right as long as the HD stuttering is gone and the PC as a whole is a lot more stable (that may be more related to all of the other changes I made in the same evening).

Does this mean that you will be updating the code for the other aspect ratio's?

[salsbst]

I reimaged my laptop (obviously?) the one with the stuttering problem. The problem persists... I don't think 'fill' has any effect one way or the other.

I imagine that whatever code path you're chasing is one that would choke the CPU, and if that choked, might deprive the GPU?

My research seems to suggest that the CPU isn't choked at all, and that rather something about the rendering path after the CPU is hiccoughing....

Anyway, thanks for the idea!

[Ron]

I have several recordings saved of 1080i football games which I use for testing. As I mentioned earlier, changing the setting to "FILL" really doesn't solve the stuttering. But what is apparent is, that if my football recordings are run through Graphedit or WMP, using the Nvidia Video Decoder and set to VMR9, they play absolutely perfect with no sign of stutter. Yet when played through Sage, it stutters. That must mean there's something in the way Sage is processing the video which is causing the stutter.

In my communications with Sage support, I keep on referring back to this point.

[astribli]

Just to add an element of comparison here.

Using SageTV, latest version 6, with nVidia PureVideo Decoder, on my ECS nForce3-a motherboard, AMD 3100 Sempron, 1.25 GB ram, ATI 9550 AGP w/256 MB, ATI 650 HDTV tuner, while watching CBS in HD, my cpu runs around 50-70% utilization.

1. Using BeyondTV from Snapstream, same everything, CPU runs around 30% CPU.

2. So, question is why is CPU utilization higher using Sage compared to BeyondTV???

I believe consuming a higher cpu % has a domino effect. If I switch back to VMR9, it stutters and if I try to view the guide, cpu goes to 100% and system more or less hangs. Use overlay and it drops back to 50-70. Use fill mode and it drops another 5% or so.

Is it possible all the problems people are having with stuttering, guide problems, lock ups, etc., is all due to something in Sage consuming more CPU than it should which causes the effect that when one other process needs cpu, it overloads?

[Goodspike]

And just to add another element, on my system, having Sage Service running greatly increases the CPU cycles when you're also watching something, compared to just having the main Sage program record something. That makes no sense at all to me, but having the service run is important so you don't lose a recording if Sage happens to crash.

[astribli]

Does anyone from Sage view and/or post here?

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by astribli

Does anyone from Sage view and/or post here?

Yes.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...143#post201143
Video Stutter with v6 - Page 5 - SageTV Community