Video Stutter with v6

[blade]

Log sent.

I've tried it on both of my clients and 1 has audio and no video. The other has neither audio nor video. I only sent the log for one of the clients. I can send the other if it's needed.

[soulprops77]

I remember reading about an addition to the sage properties file that changes HD recording from an mpg to a ts file, but I can't find it in the forums again. . . Does anyone know this off the top of their head?

It was mentioned as a possible fix to poor HD playback.

Thanks,
Chris

[salsbst]

Another observation. Last night, we started to watch a 1080i show. It was stuttering pretty badly and regularly. I backed out of the playback to check which source had recorded it (it was the firewire from cablebox), just to add to my datapoints of which recordings stutter and which don't. So, having checked out the source, I started playback again. This time, absolutely no stuttering at all.

What could cause a file to stutter significantly on the first playback attempt and not to stutter at all on the next attempt. Obviously, I made no changes to decoders between the two attempts.

Is it possible that the very first part of the recording had something in it that screwed things up, and that since the second attempt didn't start from the beginning, that it didn't start its stuttering?

[Kirby]

Have you tried forcing sage to rebuild the playback graph for each file? I think the setting is (was):

videoframe/fast_file_switching=false

That might be helpful, maybe not. Also, I seem to recall it may have changed since V6 was released, I'm sure someone else can confirm this.

[schmitcj]

I have a few observations, that may assist someone. I use the latest NVIDIA drivers and PureVideo decoder, and run sage client 6.19. I use VMR9. I can get stutter-free video using my NVidia 6600GT AGP on all programs except HD 1080i football games . I should add that I get my HD content out of my cable box over firewire. The only thing that completely resolved that was to replace the card with a 7800GS OC. Now I can watch any anything stutter-free. With my 6600 there was a difference when I specified the video decoder as the NVidia vs when I set it to default (although it still used the NVidia decoder). Setting it to default was a great improvemtn. Why? No idea. In the Purevideo decoder properties (outside of Sage) I tried various changes to "de-interlace control" and "de-interlace mode". I now (with 7800GS) use "Video" for the control setting and "pixel adaptive" for the mode. If memory serves me correctly, the same settings worked best with the 6600.

[RichardS]

Originally Posted by Narflex

OK, here's another setting to try. Set this registry value to 0 (zero):

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\SageTV\DirectX9\CopyVideoTextures

The value should already exist, so you shouldn't need to create it. I've got high hopes for this one so I'm looking forward to the feedback.

This gives a pretty big improvement on my setup but I still get enough stuttering that it is unwatchable. This is with SD content using the purevideo decoder and an NVida 6200 LE. I've messed with the deinterlacing, renderer, and FSE settings but cannot find a combo that will not stutter when using the purevideo decoder.

Right now I'm using the NVidia postprocessor (software decoder) and get good pq and no stuttering with it, just high CPU usage and the occasional delays that causes. Would like to find a way to use the hardware decoder.

I never used v5 so cannot compare, I'm a relatively new user and started with the v6 beta versions. I had the same issues on 6.0.16, 17, and 19.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Narflex

OK, here's another setting to try. Set this registry value to 0 (zero):

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\SageTV\DirectX9\CopyVideoTextures

The value should already exist, so you shouldn't need to create it. I've got high hopes for this one so I'm looking forward to the feedback.

Tried this and I still have stutter. As far as whether it improved on the problem or not, that's hard to say as I don't really pay attention to that, if it stutters, it's broken.

I was really hoping this would work as I haven't even used my Sage setup in weeks due to this problem.

[sjwoo]

I'm running Sage v6.0.19 + ATI 9600 Pro, and I've been using Sage since v2. Never had any stuttering issues of any kind, but after moving to v6, I suddenly had them. Not recording HD, just SD, and it only happened sometimes, after either fast forwarding or rewinding.

The problem? I had switched to Cyberlink's codec. I always used Intermedia's with the previous versions, so VMR9 + Intermedia fixed the problem for me.

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Have you tried forcing sage to rebuild the playback graph for each file? I think the setting is (was):

videoframe/fast_file_switching=false

That might be helpful, maybe not. Also, I seem to recall it may have changed since V6 was released, I'm sure someone else can confirm this.

I haven't tried that. Actually, I'm pretty much all set with stutter now thanks to Jeff's reg. tweak. (Too bad it doesn't seem to be a panacea for everyone.)

Sometimes a show will stutter when I start it, but if it does, it seems that just backing off of the playback onto a menu, and then starting it again is a reliable workaround.

My wife is visiting her mom this weekend, so I'll try to find time to test the fast_file_switching setting.

[IncredibleHat]

I've noticed while watching something as close to the second it is aired, it stutters. It had done this since day one of my ever using SageTV.

My solution was, I just hit pause for three seconds then resume. That way its always a few seconds behind, and I never get a stutter again.

[salsbst]

(In my case the recordings are not live, they are hours/days/weeks old.)

[mechling-burgh]

I also tried Reg edit all I got was a black screen and no video.

[jmxp]

Ok, I've been fooling with this for hours.

I tried the registry change, FSE, Defaut, VMR9, Overlay, Nvidia, and every other combination of software option with the same result. Stutter in 1080i (90% cpu), no problems at all in 720p.

Finally, I minimized Sage, fired up WMP10.0 and ran the same 1080i HD content over the Front End PC and it was smooth as silk (30% cpu). So I started looking for what the difference might be between WMP10 and Sage playing the same file with everything else being equal.

When I fired up WMP10.0, an Nvidia icon popped up in the system tray. Right clicking brings up Decoder Properties. When I selected that, there were any number of options to check. I unchecked Enable Hardware acceleration and low and behold, the playback came back EXACTLY like it was in Sage (WITH 90% cpu) I re-checked the box, reloaded the player, cpu dropped, smooth playback is back.

So...I close WMP10.0, fire up Sage in a Window, play the video and look for my Nvidia Icon. Sure enough, it pops up, but....when I right click on it, I don't get the same properties box and of course, 90% CPU.

My dollar is on hardware acceleration, but for whatever reason I can't get to the Nvidia decoder properties while Sage is playing to see if that box is checked or not. I made sure when I left WMP to keep Hardware checked, but the behavior looks like a non-hardware enable decoder.

Is this a registry setting/ini/properties file somewhere? I'd REALLY like to see that decoder properties box show up when I click on decoder properties to see what that Hardware enabled setting is set to...

[jmxp]

Ok, I set Hardware Acceleration while playing a 1080i source in WMP10 by opening the Nvidia decoder properties. Right after that I rebooted the front end and now I'm watching some stutter free 1080i. The same video that was REALLY jerky just 1/2 hour ago.

I'm not sold that I have a repeatable process yet, but I'm going to go through all of my options and document what I've got.

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by jmxp

Is this a registry setting/ini/properties file somewhere? I'd REALLY like to see that decoder properties box show up when I click on decoder properties to see what that Hardware enabled setting is set to...

Make sure the nVidia decoder is the system default (seems like it is because WMP is using it). Then choose Default as the video decoder in Sage. Now the system tray icon will show when playing a recording.
To truly determine your default MPEG2 decoder, install Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility

For what it's worth, 1080i shows hardware acceleration as enabled for me and I still get stuttering with 1080i when trying to use VMR9. Overlay works great though.

[astribli]

Well I have done investigation and testing and found some interesting results. I used the Microsoft DECCheck to set the default and just set Sage to use Default. Each time I changed the DECCheck default decoder, I restarted Sage to ensure it picked up the change.

On my machine, I have decoders from:
SageTV
Hauppauge
Nero Video
Nero DVD
ULead Video
ULead DVD
nVidia PureVideo.

Now here are the interesting things:

1. Using nVidia PureVideo, the picture quality looks best (although not by much) and watching or playing 1080i (on my 43" Hitachi via Component) works fine. Using Overlay cpu (Athlon Sempron 3100) cpu runs around 29-43%. Can use VMR9 but it stutters every few frames.

2. Using SageTV causes cpu to jump to 100% and eventually locks up using VMR9. If I just use overlay, works ok but cpu runs around 60%.

3. Using uLead Video or DVD works fine and the best part is I can use either Overlay or VMR9 and both play back smooth. Picture quality looks about the same using either overlay or VMR9. CPU runs around 29-43%

4. Using Nero Video or DVD is the same as 3 above. Slightly less CPU it seems, although we are talking 1-2% so who knows. Can use both overlay and VMR9 with pretty much no difference in picture quality or cpu.

Also, using Nero DVD decoder, I can use the smooth FF/REW plug in and it actually plays just a tiny but smoother than using the nVidia PureVideo decoder. Go figure.

Bottom line is the SageTV decoder has something wrong with it to cause 100% cpu then a few seconds later lock up.

Also this testing means I don't have to pay for the nVidia PureVideo software as it doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference running 1080i or 720p source material.

Not sure what it all means other than the built in decoder sucks when playing HD.

[jmxp]

Originally Posted by jgollehon

Make sure the nVidia decoder is the system default (seems like it is because WMP is using it). Then choose Default as the video decoder in Sage. Now the system tray icon will show when playing a recording.
To truly determine your default MPEG2 decoder, install Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility

For what it's worth, 1080i shows hardware acceleration as enabled for me and I still get stuttering with 1080i when trying to use VMR9. Overlay works great though.

I had already verified that Nvidia is the default, and I saw the icon in the tray during playback, but clicking on Decoder Properties did nothing. No property box would come up.

I found out after this post that Overlay is what I have to use. Setting it on default gives jerky playback and using VMR9 renders it unwatchable. It looks like a vertically interlaced picture showing only half the scan.

CPU load on default pegs the cpu at 100%.

My working options for 1080i HD are:
Video Renderer: Overlay
MPEG2 Video Decoder Filter: Nvidia

The only problem I have left is that SD looks horrible with Overlay, so if I want to watch SD, I have to switch the renderer to Default which looks the best.

At the end of the day, I'm ok, because I can get good performance and PQ for all of my formats, however; I DO NOT appreciate having to change them depending on what I watch. This really should be fixed.

[garyellis]

I'm using the HDHR...and I am using Svideo out to the TV. all SD works great, no stutter..but, when I switch to HD, I get stutter on a few channels. The channels that I think are the strongest (ABC and NBC and CBS) stutter only on video..Sound is fine...But FOX HD doesn't stutter at all....

Now if I switch to 1080i through component video I get a lot more stuttering from all channels..

Why would some channels stutter and others not?

I have a Anthlon 3200+ and a 6200TC video card (I know..cheap card)..and using v6....

just curious why some HD channels stutter and others don't...

Gary Ellis

[gplasky]

Some are broadcasting in 720p and some are broadcasting in 1080i. Some are broadcasting in DD 5.1 and some aren't. The higher res and sound will cause a burden on your PC.

Gerry

[garyellis]

So, any way to "dumb down" the resolution...In other words have a 1080i act like a 720p, so that I don't get the stutter?

Gary Ellis