Thinking of updating my Sage Box

[m1abrams]

I understand the issues behind getting HD working on the client. However I am not ready to start ripping drywall apart throughout my house to solve it. And adding another box to the room is not an option at all. I think the HD extender is great and I wish I could use it, have considered every option but not have ethernet or the ability to add another box in the room prevents it.

I know the risks going with an untested product, however have research many sites and they seem pretty impressed with this chip. Also I do not think the G33 had hardware acceleration did it?

I actually just order the parts, and hopefully will have it up and running by next weekend.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

However I am not ready to start ripping drywall apart throughout my house to solve it.

I think this is the part that everybody in this thread does not understand.

Originally Posted by m1abrams

And adding another box to the room is not an option at all.

That part I get.


I don't mean to beat this to death. We're all okay with you building a Sage client. I just don't understand the ethernet issue. Is your PC not directly attached to the TV? The extender could plug right into a NIC on it. I just don't know why you think either the Sage server or extender would need to go in a different room.

I'm posting for no other reason now but to understand.

-Robert

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by valnar

I think this is the part that everybody in this thread does not understand.



That part I get.


I don't mean to beat this to death. We're all okay with you building a Sage client. I just don't understand the ethernet issue. Is your PC not directly attached to the TV? The extender could plug right into a NIC on it. I just don't know why you think either the Sage server or extender would need to go in a different room.

I'm posting for no other reason now but to understand.

-Robert

Ok so you understand I do not want another box in the room. In order to plug the extender directly into the Sage server I would have to ADD another box to the room. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand? Right now my Sage box is BOTH a server and a client.

Maybe the confusing part is that the Sage Server needs to have network access to get guide data, well yes it currently has WiFi access however there is no way you can get HD video over wifi even 802.11N I doubt would work reliably. If you think getting a PC to playback HD video is tough try doing it over wifi and have it be reliable.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

Ok so you understand I do not want another box in the room. In order to plug the extender directly into the Sage server I would have to ADD another box to the room. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand? Right now my Sage box is BOTH a server and a client.

Maybe the confusing part is that the Sage Server needs to have network access to get guide data, well yes it currently has WiFi access however there is no way you can get HD video over wifi even 802.11N I doubt would work reliably. If you think getting a PC to playback HD video is tough try doing it over wifi and have it be reliable.

The idea was to have an ethernet NIC in your PC. It's been awhile since they haven't had one integrated, so perhaps that's the disconnect with me. Whether PC or extender though, if you want to watch HD live, won't it still go over wireless on your PC?

-Robert

[gplasky]

Another option: Powerline Ethernet adapter. Could get up to 200 Mbps over existing AC wiring. Should be good enough for watching HD.

Gerry

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by valnar

The idea was to have an ethernet NIC in your PC. It's been awhile since they haven't had one integrated, so perhaps that's the disconnect with me. Whether PC or extender though, if you want to watch HD live, won't it still go over wireless on your PC?

-Robert

Ok how is this not clear. I do NOT want another box in my TV room, the EXTENDER IS ANOTHER BOX. I am sorry but you are starting to seem like a troll at this point. I really do not understand what is so complex about my statements. Yes my server has a NIC, but that does not matter because in order to use it with the extender i would have to have ANOTHER box in the room.

To the other poster I have tried Powerline stuff, and well it may work well in a small house it does not work worth a damn in my house. Even tried using phase bridge amplifiers. These things do work well if they work for you, but in my current house they dont. They have in other smaller apartments, but not here.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

Ok how is this not clear. I do NOT want another box in my TV room, the EXTENDER IS ANOTHER BOX. I am sorry but you are starting to seem like a troll at this point. I really do not understand what is so complex about my statements. Yes my server has a NIC, but that does not matter because in order to use it with the extender i would have to have ANOTHER box in the room.

To the other poster I have tried Powerline stuff, and well it may work well in a small house it does not work worth a damn in my house. Even tried using phase bridge amplifiers. These things do work well if they work for you, but in my current house they dont. They have in other smaller apartments, but not here.

I'm hardly a troll. 'Just trying to understand because the logic goes in circles.

OK. You want to do HD. You stated you have wireless. You stated that HD doesn't work over your 802.11n wireless. You stated you are not running cable to your TV room. Just curious what you were planning on doing with the Sage PC for HD needs if not wireless.


Robert


Edit: Is it because the single ethernet NIC on you Sage server is being used currently for the HDHomeRun and you use wireless for Internet? Now that would make sense since the bandwidth is going over ethernet. It just wasn't stated.

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by valnar

I'm hardly a troll. 'Just trying to understand because the logic goes in circles.

OK. You want to do HD. You stated you have wireless. You stated that HD doesn't work over your 802.11n wireless. You stated you are not running cable to your TV room. Just curious what you were planning on doing with the Sage PC for HD needs if not wireless.

Robert

Ugh. What is so complex. I am using a single computer for both Client and Server, this computer is in a HTPC type case in my Audio rack with the TV in the TV room. The sage pc uses wireless but only to have a net connection to get guide data. Why would I need network for HD if the PC server and client are the same machine?

[lovingHDTV]

Please post back how the build goes. I will need to re-build my client soon for h.264 support and am really interested in how this turns out for you.

[toricred]

You would need network for HD if you were going to use the HDHR as a tuner because the HDHR is a network device only. It doesn't have any other way to connect to your Sage server.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by toricred

You would need network for HD if you were going to use the HDHR as a tuner because the HDHR is a network device only. It doesn't have any other way to connect to your Sage server.

He did state he had a HDHomeRun, I was trying to figure out where it was in the picture. I assume now (possibly) directly connected to his NIC in the Sage server?? That would explain the extra wireless NIC for Internet.

Robert

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by valnar

He did state he had a HDHomeRun, I was trying to figure out where it was in the picture. I assume now (possibly) directly connected to his NIC in the Sage server?? That would explain the extra wireless NIC for Internet.

Robert

Yes I did not think I needed to spell out my entire network for you. Yes the HDhomerun is connected to my NIC. That seemed obvious that it must be connected that way. My mentioning not have ethernet to the the TV room means I do not have a wired network throughout the house. Thought that was clear.

I am already using the HDhomerun in my setup btw.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

Yes I did not think I needed to spell out my entire network for you. Yes the HDhomerun is connected to my NIC. That seemed obvious that it must be connected that way. My mentioning not have ethernet to the the TV room means I do not have a wired network throughout the house. Thought that was clear.

Nope.

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

it currently has WiFi access however there is no way you can get HD video over wifi even 802.11N I doubt would work reliably. If you think getting a PC to playback HD video is tough try doing it over wifi and have it be reliable.

Depends on how far away the other side of the link is. I work for a WLAN switch startup, and 11n is suprisingly robust and fast. For a point-to-point link is easily faster than 100Mbps Ethernet, but only if you have somthing that support 5GHz. The 2.4 band is crowded and has serious interference problems (e.g. no video streaming while microwaving dinner). Here's one consumer product that's not too expensive, though you'd need two of them:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=663

Just trying to add some more info for everyone, not trying to convince you to change your plans. I understand this would be another box.

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by Slipshod

Depends on how far away the other side of the link is. I work for a WLAN switch startup, and 11n is suprisingly robust and fast. For a point-to-point link is easily faster than 100Mbps Ethernet, but only if you have somthing that support 5GHz. The 2.4 band is crowded and has serious interference problems (e.g. no video streaming while microwaving dinner). Here's one consumer product that's not too expensive, though you'd need two of them:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=663

Just trying to add some more info for everyone, not trying to convince you to change your plans. I understand this would be another box.

No that is quite alright. I just did not understand what was so complex in my requirements.

While 802.11N looks good on paper, I am not sure I would commit my TV to the dependency of a wireless network. The wife would have my head if the TV was as flaky as most wireless networks I have worked with have been.

Now 802.11n over 5Ghz may be a big improvement and that may be my solution down the road. And the extra box in this case would be ok, since I would replace the Server with a smaller extender and also removing the 2 STBs and HDHomerun.

Maybe down the road when I decide to upgrade my wireless I will find that it is dependable enough to use an extender then I can move the Sage box to just be a server.

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

No that is quite alright. I just did not understand what was so complex in my requirements.

I'm not quite sure either; I thought you had pretty clearly outlined them.

Maybe down the road when I decide to upgrade my wireless I will find that it is dependable enough to use an extender then I can move the Sage box to just be a server.

Waiting to see how it works for somebody else is a good plan, especially with the consumer gear.

I've actually been wireless-only at work for a couple of years now, and aside from our own bugs (we test alpha and beta code on the internal network) 11n has been working out pretty darn well. Admittedly, I'm not streaming HD files... But I did have my wife running her PC over a point-to-point 11a (5GHz Wifi) bridge a while back and she had no issues or complaints. I took it down after I got around to running ethernet to her PC.

Cheers,
Slipshod

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

Ok how hard is it for people to understand that I do NOT have ethernet to my TV room. Therefor putting an Extender in that room is not possible. I am NOT going to add yet another box to the TV room that just seems silly and do not have the room for it. Right now with just the SageTV, Reciever, 2 cable boxes and the hdhomerun I am pretty full. Now if I had ethernet to the TV room that would be a different story. But I do not and it would be a pretty big renovation to get ethernet to this room.

Oh and a $50 DVD player does not match the upconversion quality of a decent HTPC. And yes spinning a disc is very important to the wife. I am not about to rip her collection of various multidisc TV shows.

Have you tried the powerline adapters? I have a couple of Linksys PLK-200s and they work very well. I had my home wired w/ cat5 (100mb/sec) when it was built in 2000 but I missed a couple of locations and these powerline adapters are registering ~90mb/sec and work extremely well. I got the pair on ebay for ~$70 plus shipping.

EDIT: ok, I've finished reading the thread and I see I posted my reply prematurely - powerline adapters don't work for you. I also have a large home and they do work for me. Sorry!

[m1abrams]

Yep the adapters if they work in your home are great, but if they do not it can be a bit problematic making the work. Our home is about 4000 sq. ft, and getting it to work reliable was not happening for us.

[m1abrams]

About the 802.11n, has anyone used them for large media streaming over extended use? Using it with just surfing the net and checking email is not a valid test for how well it will work with Sage.

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

About the 802.11n, has anyone used them for large media streaming over extended use? Using it with just surfing the net and checking email is not a valid test for how well it will work with Sage.

I have a friend using it for SD and DVD streaming to the HTPC in his bedroom, but no HD. Doesn't have constant usage since it's the bedroom one, but he's been running it a long time without issue. How far (straight-line) would the wireless link be, and how many walls (and what material) would it go through?

How much bandwidth do you really need to be able to stream HD? Would 40Mbps of real throughput (i.e. measured by an FTP transfer) work fine? 11n will do 150Mbps+ at close range, but if you only need 40-50 you'll be able to get a pretty decent range out of it.